A very long time ago, there were some threads here in which BS’s and WS’s explored their contribution to the state of their marriage at the time the affair started. This type of introspection is very important to marital recovery for both the BS and the WS. <p>I found the thread to be very helpful.. So I wanted to get another going.<p>I’ll be back later to add my own 2 cents about my part in it all.

This may sound overly simplistic.
H never felt that I loved him as his needs were never being met. I felt that I was being such a great wife because I was attempting to meet his needs in the way that I knew how.
What was really happening was that I was trying to meet "his" needs by going on what needs I had. We have since found out that men and women do not share the same needs. We just didn't know how to articulate this.
After feeling lonely and unloved for so long this made him ripe for an affair. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: cleopatra ]</p>

I dated my H for 8 months and was married 4 months when I found out that he had been carrying on internet EA's almost the entire time we were seeing each other. I hadn't had time to deprive him of any needs and he even admitted as much to our counselor when we did the EN questionairre.

Good thread Zorweb...since d-day, my Plan A has enabled me to find so much wrong with who I became:<p>1. I took his love for granted.
2. I shut him out of my life to protect myself and D from his "failure" to be the type of father I had always wanted him to be.
3. I deprived him of sexual fulfilment without really know that I was.
4. I thought I was being the "perfect wife" for him. I thought I made him happy and never believed he could love someone else.
5. I thought he understood that I was trying to be the perfect mother to please him, so that he would be proud.
6. I became angry and resentful that he continued his life without change after children. He didn't seem to be aware of my needs or appreciate my efforts.
7. I ignored him and his needs after our child because I believed he would understand.
8. I trusted him implicitly.
9. I stopped putting him first.
10. I stopped showing him love.

I married him!!<p>FWH had been involved with XOW for 9 years before he met me. Throughout our courtship and engagement he continued his EA with her. D-day was 20 days after our wedding. EA continued for 7 months thereafter, then "just wannabe friends" for another 8.<p>What I really am guilty of is ignoring the red flags during our courtship and engagement. What really burns is that I recognised them at the time as red flags, discussed them with a friend, and allowed myself to be talked into/talked myself into believing that my history of abuse had made me hypersensitive so I was imagining ghosts....

Ugh, sheesh what can I say...<p>I loved him too much.
That was my fatal mistake.
I loved him so much I trusted his judgement.
I loved him so much I treated him like a grown man.
I loved him so much I believed every single promise, explanation and made up story that came out of his mouth.
I loved him so much I married him.<p>I sure as hell will never make such an awful mistake, neither I can. My heart is still numb in parts, I think I will never love him as much as I once did, and it is very sad.

I contributed the downpayment to the house.

Let me see if I can do this, without any sarcasm, ifs, ands, or buts. I guess that's the only way to truly take responsibility, huh?<p>I heard him, but didn't LISTEN, when he voiced areas of unhappiness. Well, I listened, but didn't DO anything about it. His complaints were VERY subtle, but very important.
He wanted to change churches. I didn't say "no", but I didn't jump right in and say "ok - let's do it". (He partly blames this for the affair - that the church we were in let him "die spiritually".)
He wanted to change jobs (again [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ), and I tried to talk him out of it.
He wanted to move to another town. I didn't want to.
I didn't respond to his cries out for help when he ventured a little into porn and chatting with women.
I expected and encouraged (he says "pushed") him to be "more" (in the business world), because I thought that was HIS goals also, and because I believed in him sooooo much - his talents and abilities.
I didn't keep myself as physically attractive as I should have. (my weight only... hair, make-up and dress was always great [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )
I depended on him, and where he took us, for all my happiness and self-worth.
I MIGHT have had a tendency to nag, push, preach or teach from time to time. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
I took charge of details (bills, calendar, activities, etc.) simply because if I didn't, those things wouldn't get done. I should have let him do those things anyway, in HIS way, and accepted it.<p>OK. There's my confessions. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Much of what I did or didn't do was because I thought it was what WE BOTH wanted and agreed on - as far as our goals, and our roles. I'm NOT blaming him, but he honestly didn't communicate his unhappiness to me. He says he didn't want to nag or complain. If he didn't tell me, I couldn't fix it, ya know? I will always recommend to couples that they DISCUSS their unhappiness, instead of letting it build up.<p>[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

One very important point on this thread is that I am making a very strong distinction between responsibility for the state of the marriage and for the decision to have an affair.<p>The BS has no responsibility for the WS having an affair.<p>However, all relationships take two. So each person contributes, even if that contribution is that they over looked warnings.

I took over his life. He lost himself.
I did EVERYTHING. I had ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY. I heard him, but didn't hear him.
I treated him and talked to him like a child.
I threw temper tantrums to get him to do what I needed him to do.
I didn't really trust him.
I was mad at him ALL the time the six months before d-day.
I resisted him wanting to find a new church.
I resisted him wanting to be more 'active.'
I didn't 'let' him know who I really was and why (unresolved childhood stuff).
He felt unadmired, disrespected and 'dead.' <p>Cali

Wow. This thread is difficult to respond to, but necessary for our own healing...
I have to agree with several other posters, such as Cleopatra,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>H never felt that I loved him as his needs were never being met. I felt that I was being such a great wife because I was attempting to meet his needs in the way that I knew how.
What was really happening was that I was trying to meet "his" needs by going on what needs I had. We have since found out that men and women do not share the same needs. We just didn't know how to articulate this.
After feeling lonely and unloved for so long this made him ripe for an affair. <hr></blockquote><p>Also have to agree with a lot of T's points:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
* I took his love for granted.
* I deprived him of sexual fulfilment without really knowing that I was.
* I thought I was being the "perfect wife" for him. I thought I made him happy and never believed he could love someone else.
* I trusted him implicitly.
* I stopped putting him first.
* I stopped showing him love.
<hr></blockquote><p>I have been ashamed of my actions. BUT, I have confessed to God, and repented. With God's help, one day I will have the opportunity to confess to my WH, and change these things in our M to make it happier for both of us. If NOT, I know now what I needed to do to make ME a better person, and improve my life from here on out.<p>God Bless,

Excellent thread... <p>Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.. my role in the making of the environment for the A. I married him (he was engaged to be married when we met, so I was the ow.. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] )When the verbal abuse started I shut down, the wall started going up. I've been waiting for the divorce discussion since the begining. Almost to the point of preparing myself. I didn't listen to my feelings. (I WILL NEVER do THAT again!!)I trusted him further than I could throw him. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I believed in him and his choices. the big one is I quit talking, lets say that again.. I quit talking with him. If I wouldn't have quit talking with him none of the other things would have taken place. The one time I finally stayed quiet (in real life I'm loud and obnxious, but fun) almost killed our marriage.

I know there are a lot of things that I could list but I will try to list only the one's that immediately come to mind.<p>Like CALI: treated and talked to W like a child(I'm a very serious person, always have been, still am), always had to ask her if she washed her face, did you do this or did you do that,things you would ask your children. I NEVER really trusted W, I was mad with W from almost the beginning (because of honesty issues). In the later years not sure if I respected her or even admired her. YES, I still loved her, but I know I quit showing her.<p>Other issues: never wanting her to be with her friends and "GO OUT" {(thought she may like the night life and what it has to offer),(never really got a chance to, W was under 21 when we got together and had kids),(In the back of my mind I thought she would realize how I was treating her and find someone better than me)}. I had the night life thing for a while before I met W and did continue it after we met and had 1 child, always did this with a male co-worker/drinkin' and fishin' buddy (single guy with no life of his own), in fact at one point W made a remark that she thought an A was going on with him (W knew there wasn't) because she felt I spent more time with him than with her. Not giving her the affection she wanted "hugs and kisses". In fact, I can recall not kissing her, unless I was totally tore up(drunk), for almost 1 1/2 years (still could probably count them on one hand missing a thumb), probably didn't tell her that I loved her for longer. Did not want to do things outside the home with the family because of the hassle with young children (I hope you guys know what I mean) because I lack patience. Never wanted to be married (she know's that), just got tired of being pressured by W and my mother. Not "talking" with her the way she felt she needed to converse. A BIG ONE: probably making her feel as if I only wanted her around for sex. Not really letting her accept any responsiblity in our marriage besides the children (I pay all the bills and always have), again no trust. Had a tendency to get drunk when I did drink (which went from 6-7 nights a week when we met to 2-3 times a week in the past year) and totally shut W out (zoned the entire world out and acted like no one else was there, not even the kids). Verbally abused her when I knew she was lying to me, again no trust. Didn't give her a lot of freedom to do what she wanted (W makes a point to remind me that she has only gone out 3 times since we've been together without me or the kids in the 6 years of being together. ME, can't count, BUT I would say 90% of the time she knew what I was doing and who I was with.) Never really gave "our" marriage a chance, figured she would screw it up and end in divorce, she kinda has to a degree (not sure if divorce is not out of the picture yet). Not sure if this is one but, let her take care of the entire housework and everything involved with that, kind of like a maid, except for the cooking (she's forgotten tuna in tuna casserole 3 times) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] To an extent I guess that was responsiblity, maybe not exactly what she wanted though. I do 85% of the cooking, the other 10% is a TV dinner she nuked or something she cooked or we actually go out to eat. I always got on her about her collection notices she has for magazines or other items like that. Getting on her about why she always ate out and has no money (we've always had seperate acoounts, again don't trust her, this part may be about W but more her mother). Degrading her by saying she has a big butt, big belly, small boobs (which none of them are particulary true, she's not drop dead gourgeous to anyone but me. In fact when I have looked at another woman and found her to be attractive, it hits me that they have pretty much the same figure as my wife). I know those comments I made weren't any help (OM stated the exact opposite right away). At some point quit asking her what she wants or not listening to what she said with material and affectionate things, didn't really care either (I thought the decisions "I" made would be in the best interest of the family no matter what anyone else thought or said). Telling W she is TOO nice and can't tell a person NO, how can that be helpful in a marriage? <p>So much for listing things that just came to mind, wonder how much I could have said if I really thought about it? Re-reading this i thought, Boy did I literally f**k up or what? Some of you are probably wondering and saying, "NO WONDER SHE HAD AN AFFAIR, FUNNY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN SOONER".

I danced the dance and let him lead. After all, if "we" failed then I had only him to blame, right? <p>Snow

Hi and thanks, Boy, I get to actually reveal my "sins", this could be cleansing... as I introspect some more on this. I have a lot already, but by talking about them here... I think will help even more... thanks Zorweb.<p>First I will start with the true fact that my H and I used to have the most perfect love in the world... at least to me... but after marriage and then children... I was not happy with the way-<p>1. I was not happy with my H's role as father or husband.
2. I was openly angry and resentful to my H over my perceived "failures" of him to meet my expectations.
3. I expected more finacially provided by my H.
4. I expected more housework and family committment by my H.
5. I expected more responsible actions by my H... by my definition... actually looking at our finances and being responsible for where we were going together in life with me... and being home after work (i.e. not going to bars, or other places)
6. I openly voiced my negative feelings about many of his "bad" friends... etc... because they drank, did drugs... or were just plain irresponsible.... troublemakers so to speak, that I wanted him to stay away from.
7. I acted better than much of the time... and told him I was too.
8. I told him he could not handle money, so he had to report to me on money.
9. I told him, I was more qualified to handle bills, insurance, etc. because I knew more about it.
10. I gave him an allowance and this made him feel bad... about not having POJA.
11. I often made plans for the children, and for myself without consulting him because I expected disagreement or nonconcern by him....
12. I simply told him what would be going on, and expected compliance in many ways... babysitting when I needed it from him... for our kids... often when I had to work or go to school... I simply informed him of his duties instead of consulting him.
13. I often told him what we could and could not do.
14. I have since been informed that I would not even let him pick out his own clothes... (actually he always consulted me... but when he moved out and I sd...it hurt s to see you with ow wearing the clothes I bought for you... and one of ow's comments was... your wife knows how to dress you so well....) which was so true... (today H and I went to church and he did not match).
15. I picked out our home without consulting him and told him we were moving in... (he was off on a drunk... and I was fed up... I was pregnant... and my parents bought a home that I picked out witht he agreement either I by myself would eventually buy it, or we would if H grew up).
16. I talked bad about him to my friends and family and this led to more bad feelings all the way around.
17. I scolded him for his bad behavior... drinking, irresponsiblity...
18. When he finally improved... and he did due to some of my non-compliance in doing things for him as I had done for so long... I did not thank him or show admiration... I simply thought... it is about time.
19. I was the queen of resentfulness.... I held grudges.
20. I was often angry at him..<p>21. I did not meet his sf... I required that he be sober... and that he had spent time romancing me or giving me the kindness and closeness I needed... of course this drove us more and more apart... I did not want affection from him either as I was so resentful... and Of course I did not give it... I did not even want him hugging me or holding my hand half of the time or more... i was too angry at him.<p>22. I did not admire, what was there to admire, he had failed....? When was he going to be admirable was my mantra.<p>23. I was openly disappointed..<p>ETC. can I say, of course it happened.. poor guy.. he is so much sweeter when I meet some of his needs or even all... as I have been trying to do... I see even more of mine met.. funny how that works... but the drinking is a whole different issue in my home... and I think I need an alanon meeting now...<p>actually I am seeing how I beat him down even when he made great efforts to improve... I am seeing that I was too controling and non loving due to my years of resentfulness that built up against him... <p>I know he started alot of this... but I nurtured it... with my anger.... <p>anyways... i will come back and look at this... any advice welcome as always... but I think alot of mine is classic wife of alcoholic... MY H WAS so irresponsible, and we married so young... we never got over alot of things that happend early in the marriage.. his leaving me home with a baby while he went out with friends to bars... etc...<p>I never forgave him...<p>we are getting there... we are moving forward..<p>One reason he now says he is afraid to come home.. is he thinks I will be angry at him for life o ver his A and numerous one nighters... etc... that he has committed.. I really think with more therapy.. please lord let him go back.. and God in our lives together... we can get there.. but it is difficult... he is not where he needs to be on the non drinking path - but I still want him as my H... <p>It is so hard to love an alcoholic... at times when he is sober it is like... what is my problemm.... why do I think he is so bad, he is wonderful...it is a cunning , baffling disease./.... because so much of the drinking makes him into who I am angry at... but it iss not him... it is the affects ofthe drinking that fuel my anger... but I still love him and only want him. <p>thanks, HONEY
[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Z,
"member that old Carly Simon tune "that's the way I always heard it would be"?
Well that is what I bought into.<p>We'd been together awhile, kids, work, life all took precedence over the relationship.<p>Noticed, but didn't worry about it too much as I figured we rest on our past laurels. We had a great relationship for about 10 years..figured it would carry us through the bad times.<p>And not much changed during the A..we still went out, had fun, had sex..he was never mean until after I found out about it. And, even then, more like impatient and irritated.<p>So, I guess my biggest fault is that I quit thinking about him/me/us.
T

Before I list the things that I did to help put the marriage where it was before the A started I just want to say congratulations to all of us that have taken some of the responsibility for where the marriage was prior to the A. For those who continue to completely blame the WS I say shame on you and keep looking. It is very rare that one person can be completely at fault. I am not saying it is not possible, but very unlikely.<p>With that off my chest here goes my list...<p>I did not let my H think I needed him.
I did not admire my H outloud, or at least where he could hear.
I did not pay enough attention to my appearence.
I gained weight, a lot!
I made disrepectful judgements.
I expected him to act and react like I would to situations.
I would work too much and be too tired to fulfill his needs. <p>Did any of this give him the right to do what he did? NO! But I accept the things that I did wrong am I am working on them.

what was my contribution to the downfall of my marriage. almost to many to list

• gained weight (didn't know it was an issue)
  kept house really bad (didn't know it was an issue)
  we both put the boys 1st
  used his job, the travling as an excuse not to deal with things
  didn't meet his needs of SF,
  didn't tell him that I was shuting down due to feeling negelected
  didn't tell him how much I hate his job
  was not supportive enough
  did not show how much I admired
  let him have plenty of time to do the things he like, but didn't join him in doing them

Whew! Great thread!<p>1) I didn't speak up enough and when I did he refused to hear me. Finally stopped talking.
2) I loved him too much.
3) I allowed him to abuse me through his neglect.
4) I was more supportive of him than of myself.
5) I believed in him, believed the vows we made and refused to quit.
6) Let him make me believe that everything was my fault.<p>That's it for me. Those are the top six. I could write down a hundred but it's too painful.<p>Love,
BB

Ok, I'll chime in too, although my list will borrow heavily!<p>In fact one of my early victories (after Dday, before MB, but I still think it was positive) was to convince him (I didn't know yet not to educate, but this one did not turn out so badly.)that I was also at fault for the fact that the marriage was poor enough that he went out looking, although the fact that he chose to have an A is his responsibility.<p>Ok here is what I did:<p>1) Put the marriage on hold while the kids were little. No kidding, I even thought of it that way. I thought he understood (by reading my mind??) that I was planning to give a lot more to him as soon as the kids were a little older.
2) Starting to "mother" him. I was relating to 3 people as a mother, a role I am more comfortable with than I expected to be, and I think I started to "mother" him too, which isn't healthy for either of us.
3) Recognized the fact that there was too much distance between us, but did not effectively address the problem (see #1, i figured I could wait to address the problem). (We started to work weird, non-overlapping hours so one of us could be home for the kids, but we weren't together much.)
4) gained too much weight with the pregnancies and did not lose it. (lost 35 lb since dday, 35 more to go if I want to get back to premarriage weight, only 25 if I want to get back to pre-first-pregnancy weight.) (And i KNOW he hates fat women, somehow i didn't think I was really "that" fat.)
5) took him for granted. (see #1 again)
6) I nagged
7) I didn't appreciate the truly loving things he did for me because he didn't do them "my way."
8) I lost interest in SF. (That has changed, but I am not sure he believes it is a permanent change yet.)
9) I took over the finances.
10) I was less than totally supportive when he wanted to move.<p>I think I'll stop, that's enough! If I fix all of these I will be SUPERWIFE!