Thinker and Sad-n-Lonely,<p>Have either of you read a book entitled Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch, Ph.D.? His ideas on differentiation, self-validation, intimacy, fusion, and more, might be of both interest and use for you both.<p>
And for everyone else ~<p>1. Have you read Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch? And if so, what was or was not helpful and or applicable about it.<p>2. What other non-MarriageBuilders books have you read and or tried? And what was helpful and or unhelpful about them.<p>I'm asking these questions in part because of something that AutumnHaze wrote and that I have been thinking about myself. I'm interested in trying to get some sense of how broad of a focus there is here on this board, how vast a knowledge-base love/marriage/self-improvement-wise people have here, what experience there is with love and marriage books outside of the MarriageBuilder's program (i.e Schnarch, Gottman, Peck, Chapman, Fromm, Kramer, etc.).<p>Thanks for your time and response [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Paruil<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Paruil ]</p>

Power of a Praying Wife
Power of a Praying Husband, both by Stormie Omartian
Imperfect Mate, Perfect Marriage, ?
Love Must Be Tough, Dr. James Dobson
Winning Your Husband (Wife) Back before its too Late, Gary Smalley
Fascinating Womanhood, ?<p>These are all great love and marriage books. Very similar concepts really. Putting the other's needs before yours (not being selfish). Deciding to stay in love. Communication techniques. Forgiveness. Taking responsibility for self.<p>Marriage Builders is great because of the web-site and support system: counseling, discussion forums, questionnaires, etc.<p>Dobson is of course more about tough love. More of a Plan B kind of thing early on after d-day.<p>Smalley is more of a "doormat" kind of thing, but gave me a great jump-start after H left - before I knew it was an A.<p>Just my 2 cents.<p>Haven't read Schnarch though.

Thanks, Faith.<p>Are all of the authors that you listed writing from a Christian perspective? (I recognize that Dobson & Smalley are; the others I'm not sure)

Yes, I believe their all from a CHristian perspective. Not sure about Fascinating Womanhood - it's been a while since I read that one.<p>I hope you get some more input on here. THere's also a recommended book list in the Notable Posts thread. I have a link to it in my signature line.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Paruil:
<strong>
1. Have you read Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch? And if so, what was or was not helpful and or applicable about it.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have read Passionate Marriage. Liked it. However, could not get wife to discuss it. Seemed to me to be more of something that the 2 of you do together. The great thing about MB is that you can it by yourself even before spouse is willing to work with you.<p>Good luck to you. You will get lots of information here. I see people mention lots of non-MB stuff.

The absolute BEST book outside of MB for marriages that I have found is: The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman.<p>Life Strategies and Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw are also excellent.<p>For affair issues....Private Lies by Pittman.<p>After the Affair by Janis Spring Abhrams is very good for recovery issues.

I have looked at alot of books in the book store, and bought a fair amount, don't recall that one at the moment.<p>For me useful books that come to mind are<p>Most of the harley stuff, all though they got 1/2 dozen books where one or two would have sufficed...seems a little mercenary, but what the heck.<p>Crazy Times...excellent explanation of the marital power dance in EVERY marriage.<p>Life Strategies Dr. Phil excellent practical advice on retaking your life, and how your internal paradigms drive you.<p>Have read tons of Christian marital self-help books, but after awhile you realize they are pretty much all the same, light on psychology, rountine communication stuff...and big on just trusting God and loving your spouse...whatever that means, I don't find em very helpful.<p>Read stuff about emotional and verbal abuse...that was a revelation...also stuff on co-dependantcy is very helpful....and books on anger are interesting too.<p>I also read lots of psychology books, and behavioural books, understanding why we do what we do has been pivotal for me finding my way.

Thanks for the responses so far, everyone!!<p>And please feel free (or obliged [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) to go into more specifics, if y'all wouldn't mind too terribly, about what has and has not been helpful about the books, and be as specific as you can about the titles you have read and found to be either useful or useless.<p>It will be very much appreciated!!<p>& SnL, check around at your local new or used bookstore and see if you can find a copy of Passionate Marriage to browse through for a while and see what you think. (Even post some of your thoughts here about it)<p>Thanks again everyone!!<p>Paruil

Paruil - haven't read the book, will go get it to read. Having been criticized by someone on my thread that I started on EN, that I follow SNL around, will this one was addressed to SNL and THINKER. Giving my response that I have not read the book, but will. <p>As far as WH reading any christian material, not sure he sees anything in it for him. He wants to psycho. analyze everything. You see where he states marriage means nothing to him. That statement in itself is not a christian belief. That is why he chooses to accept what he accepts, and nothing else. Anyways, thanks for the books.

I have a copy of Passionate Marriage on my night stand. I read through it once in awhile, and I think he has some interesting stuff about behavior in the bedroom to suggest that my H and I have put into practice.<p>BUT, that being said, I just find it far too stilted. I'm come from a very strong Liberal Arts background, and I have no problem reading complex material, but I have zero patience for people who use big words and complex methods of communication when simplicity will suffice.<p>Anyway, I'm a pretty spiritual/religious person (Catholic) myself, but I agree with SNL, I find alot of Christian material very unhelpful. <p>I've learned when reading self-help books to pay attention: Almost EVERYONE can describe in detail what "the problem" is in any situation. And almost anyone can probably identify WHY that problem exists. Thousands of self help books on the shelves in bookstores everywhere prove this.<p>But, I'd find myself getting sucked in, saying "Yeah, this person really knows what he/she is talking about!".<p>But then I started really thinking about the solutions, and the solutions is where they fall down every time. <p>Now, I'll say this. I found that my Catholic religion did NOTHING to help me become a better person, as long as I had no spiritual foundation. Moral rules, bible commandments, etc, really were a VERY very weak basis to build my life upon, because I didn't have the emotional/spiritual foundation to "get it". I lived my life following the rules like a good girl, and it got me no where. ( I think this is also why "religious" people get caught up in affairs as often as others. )<p>So many Christian writers give religious responses, that may or may not work - but those answers are useless to anyone without the spiritual background to understand them.<p>I began building my spiritual foundation through the 12 steps and I was able to come back to my religion, and find value and sense where there was none before. But I was also able to see that there are many religious people out there offering religious answers without practing a balanced emotional and spiritual foundation in their own lives - and as a result, all those religious bible quotes and religious answers really do very little good in the long term.<p>For many, religious practice is no different than an alcohlic drowning his problems in a bottle. I know, because I've been there, done that - I have horror stories to tell you about growing up in a dysfunctionally religious household. <p>There's alot of sickness out there running around under "religion". Doesn't mean that religion is bad or wrong, it just means alot of sick people use it for their own agendas. And self help books are no different.

Yup, good book but took me forever to get through...got one of his tapes for SO and he liked it.<p>Got to say he was right on with the differentiation being a huge part of a marriage.<p>On a lighter note, the eyes open sex is pretty incredible.
T

Twyla - I agree [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>
Bramble Rose - "I have a copy of Passionate Marriage on my night stand. I read through it once in awhile, and I think he has some interesting stuff about behavior in the bedroom to suggest that my H and I have put into practice. BUT, that being said, I just find it far too stilted. I'm come from a very strong Liberal Arts background, and I have no problem reading complex material, but I have zero patience for people who use big words and complex methods of communication when simplicity will suffice."<p>Specifics? Examples?<p>
Thinker - I'm glad you're going to get the book. It's very good. And most of all, it's something that you do for you. Don't worry about SnL reading it or not, or trying to share things that you learn from it with him - share the things you learn from here with us. <p>
~> Everyone else! Please add your favorite love, relationship, marriage and self-improvement books titles here and write a little about why you've liked them. <p>Or if you have read some books that are terrible, say so here and write a little about why they're so bad!<p>Please!!<p>Thanks in advance,<p>Paruil