My WH says he doesn't want the separation that we'll be soon be in. I asked him to leave and he's in the process of looking for an apartment.<p>He sent me a couple emails today that read...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I do know YOU, I know how much you love babies...I know your birthmark on your leg! I know you like to crack your ankles and wrists (even though that hasn't happened much, that I've seen)...I know you like your feet freed up when sleeping...I know you love junk food...especially chocolate!...I know YOU, BS!

I LOVE KNOWING I KNOW YOU!<hr></blockquote><p>My reply was<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think after 5 years we should know each other. I know YOU as well! Can you see ME?<hr></blockquote><p>and...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Much to your dismay and unbelief, I think of you ALWAYS! More so, I think of you in a good light! LK, YOU are the light that guides my thorny path...YOU are the beacon I seek when I'm lost...YOU are God's gift I don't know how to open!<hr></blockquote><p>My reply was...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><<<YOU are God's gift I don't know how to open!>>>

It's something you'll have to figure out on your own. Recovery will ultimately be in your hands - it's all up to you! I've tried and it hasn't worked.<hr></blockquote><p>I know he read my replies and deleted them without responding (I logged into his email). This isn't the first time he's sent me something like this and when I replied... nothing! <p>Is this just more of the old saying actions speak louder than words? Should I have stroked his ego a bit to get a response? I'm not into stroking his ego any more unless he's serious about reconciling. He had asked me if I would consider reconciling and I said I would, but I would require a lot from him.<p>I think if I was in his shoes and truly wanted my marriage I would be frantic trying to make things right. He's very blase and doesn't bring "us" up unless I do.<p>I think I've lost so much respect and love for him!<p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

No, I think you did fine. Your were not mean. You were assertive and to the point. Now he can either take your gift of wisdom and insight or he can leave. That is his choice and in the end, no amount of ego stroking will change that.

Free,<p>I think after 5 years we should know each other. I know YOU as well! Can you see ME?<p>Yeah, you'd think wouldn't you..but if there has been no honest communication..you won't know each other. Can't you read his mind? Do you expect him to read yours? The mindset of "if you loved me you'd know" is a surefire setup for misery.<p>
YOU are God's gift I don't know how to open!<p>The only way he could have said it plainer is "I don't know what in the heck you want from me." An open invitation for you to spell it out!<p>It's something you'll have to figure out on your own. Recovery will ultimately be in your hands - it's all up to you! I've tried and it hasn't worked.<p>C'mon Free, that just slams the door right back in his face. I know you're hurt and tired and disillusioned..we all get that way...but that statement just told him "you're in this alone, with no direction or help from me, and if it fails it's all your fault." How is that going to help recovery..how is it going to open communication?<p>I took the liberty of looking at some other posts from you recently:<p>One about the pastor:
"Yesterday I had an unplanned visit with our Pastor. He asked how we were doing (my H was meeting with him before the holidays and discussed the As) and I told him we were moving to Plan B.
I told him it was up to my H if we were to reconcile and my H would have to come to me with the why's of it all and with a plan he was working.<p>Our Pastor said I need to voice this to my H as he feels we are both waiting on each other and may miss a possible reconcilliation because of it."<p>Good advice..but you didn't listen..you immediately said you needed to go to plan B.<p>Then, with NSR:
"I don't plan on telling him my expectations - I want him to come to this on his own."<p>Do you see a pattern here? You want recovery, but you want it to be his responsibility. That will never work!<p>Free, reread the LB's, reread NSR's advice..look to yourself for changes you need to make, call the Harley's or your pastor..but get some help in communicating with your H, or recovery is not going to happen.<p>I'm sorry to be sooo harsh, but it sounds like you guys might have a chance..if YOU let it happen.
T

Longing, thank you for your reply!<p>Twyla, I know we've both been on these boards awhile, but never had the opportunity to "meet".<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The only way he could have said it plainer is "I don't know what in the heck you want from me." An open invitation for you to spell it out!<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>C'mon Free, that just slams the door right back in his face. I know you're hurt and tired and disillusioned..we all get that way...but that statement just told him "you're in this alone, with no direction or help from me, and if it fails it's all your fault." How is that going to help recovery..how is it going to open communication?<hr></blockquote><p>For two years TWO YEARS I have been spelling it out with detailed "recovery plans" every 3 months or so (with each new OW and discovery) and he's read the plan, discussed the plan and signed the plan only to forget the plan!<p>He knows EXACTLY what I want and need. Each discovery has led to an excuse for his behavior... his mom abused him as a child, his exW never stood up for him to her father (father was always hitting on him), he thought I had an EA, it was only a kiss, he's a drug addict... and it goes on and on! It's never his fault - the OW are always the aggressers!<p>I have all the surviving affairs books, his needs/her needs (even gave him the jump start tape he never listened to). I have the love languages workbook and we have the David Peltzer books (on surviving childhood abuse). We have the Every Man's Battle book for porn addiction. He's reading (or so he says) the Hope For The Separated book.<p>He has the tools, he has my needs... he just chooses to ignore them and not take responsibility.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>if YOU let it happen.<hr></blockquote><p>Like I said - I have done all the work for the past 2 years! He gives me lip service and then enjoys his next EA/PA!<p>So I disagree with you - he knows what needs to happen, but he is unwilling to do any work. He is a habitual liar!<p>I appreciate your comments, but you make it sound like I haven't done anything. I'm so sick of holding his hand - he is ungrateful and selfish!<p>Jeez!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Oh boy, Twyla, you sure brought out my anger in this whole thing. I know you don't know my situation, but for you to automatically take such a harsh approach really gets me!<p>My H knows about this site and has posted 2 years ago in the first few months of our marriage. He knows all about POJA and LBs. He just refuses to take responsibility for his actions.<p>We've done the ENQ many times!<p>I've asked him for 2 years what I did that led to his As and he says absolutely nothing - it's all him.<p>Lately he always has a sexual remark to make and jokes about whether my friends would have sex with him or not. He told me he wants to bleep bleep bleep one of my girlfriends and would like me to watch.<p>It's all about sex with him and it's really annoying these days. All he cares about is whether he's having sex or not.<p>So here I am all worked up over this thread and I call him to tell him about the Andrea Yates verdict (we've been following the trial and discussing it together) and his phone is busy for over 30 minutes (even though we talked earlier and he was heading home) and he tells me he was talking about the verdict with his mother and exW!<p> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He's been spending a lot of after work time at work - he says he's playing on-line games, but we have a computer at home that he can play on-line games on. A lot of his EAs started while chatting during on-line games. His last OW works with him!<p>I've just come to the conclusion that he really just doesn't care about me - he just wants to stay in the marriage so he has the extra cash to spend (I make more than him).<p>I wish he would just leave once and for all!<p>And about the counseling... I will call Dr. Harley after he moves out if only to heal myself so I can some day trust a good man (I doubt I'll trust anyone again).<p>We both did counseling, but he told the MC he stopped contact with OW when he didn't.<p>You have awakened a sleeping ANGRY giant - this is good cuz I haven't felt it until now and they say it's esential to healing! Thank you!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</p>

Free,
Thanks you...I went back about 3 months of posts before I replied, but didn't have time to go further..my bad.<p>I know what you mean about spelling it out and them not hearing exactly what it is you want...here is an except of something I wrote to SO early in recovery before I even discovered continued contact.<p>"I want you to love me for who I am, to make me feel special and valued..I want to do the same for you"....and he agreed..and nothing changed...because basically I was too vague, and he didn't know what I wanted. It wasn't until later that we got down to the nitty-gritty details..almost to the nth degree that we were able to get anywhere.<p>However..since you revealed a lot more about his behaviors...I do wonder how you been able to maintain your cool this long...Glad I came around to unstop the cork!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seriously, the things he's said about sex and girlfriends..total lack of respect..total...so now my next question..Is plan B in place...a really STRICT plan B?
T

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is plan B in place...a really STRICT plan B?<hr></blockquote><p>He is looking for an apartment and that's about it for Plan B. I will be writing him a Plan B letter while I'm away for business the rest of the week.<p>I have been too wishy-washy up to this point and I want to have no contact with him for 2-4 weeks to start off. He's not currently involved in an A that I know of (although he works with latest OW), so Plan B rules don't really apply (ie., Plan B until all contact with OW ends, etc.).<p>Over the last year he has shared my thoughts and feelings with one OW that I know of (the one from 1 year ago with whom I'm now friends with). She told me as much and it breaks my heart to know he betrayed my trust in that way.<p>I believe he has a sex addiction and he needs to come to that on his own - he basically has acknowledged it to me by saying he feels guilty and dirty after viewing porn and mastervating! But that's as far as it's gotten.<p>He has told our pastor all that he's done, but hasn't gotten to the point of wanting to change his behaviors.<p>Thanks for your guidance today! Seriously! I didn't expect you to research my sorbid history here on MB (I previously posted under LadyK). [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</p>

Free2BMe,<p>Sorry to arrive late on your thread. I keep looking for updates over on Plan A / Plan B.<p>I am so proud of you Free! Time for plan B and don't you get talked out of it. Okay?<p>When you start to get a little weak kneed because he sends you e-mails, or refers to other women, or talks about his sexual fantasies, remember what you have frequently told us - he knows how to manipulate you and cause you to doubt yourself. Just in the e-mails and few conversations you have mentioned, he is pulling his usual stuff - distancing just a little (staying at work late and using the work computer instead of home computer), telling you how much he loves you and how wonderful you are (which he does and you are, but he does not ACT that way does he?), and by trying to make you jealous and crazy with worry about what he is going to do when you are separated (the sexual references and your friends).<p>I could have this all wrong. Perhaps he really sincerely is getting it and turning over a new leaf. But in all honestly, what I see from here is SAME OLD, SAME OLD, SAME OLD STUFF.<p>Plan B, my friend. Strick plan B, and no contact for a month (or thereabouts).<p>Of course, before you take my advice, remember that my life is no picnic. So my opinions might not be worth the net-space they are written on.<p>Hugs,<p>OneDay

<p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: ashygirl ]</p>

Hey Free,<p>I'm sorry you are still going through this. It's going to be very hard until your husband is out of the house. I have to agree with OneDay that your husband is using manipulation on you. IMHO he is not responding to your email answers because they are not the answers he was hoping to get. You are being strong, and not giving him the wedge in so that he can pull you back in to doing what he wants. So he has no answer, at least not until he tries to think of a different approach.<p>I think you're right that actions speak louder than words. Of course he wouldn't want the separation. Why would he? He has done what he wanted and had you there as a cushion. He's even said so in his email..you ARE the beacon he looks for and has every time you have caught him. He just says what you wanted to hear and then goes on doing what he has done from the beginning.<p>I know how long you have struggled for recovery. It's time he took responsibility for his own actions. I agree with you that in his shoes, if he really wanted your marriage, he would be SHOWING you, not just saying the words. I also still believe that the only way he is going to wake up to what he is doing is to be out of the house, and YOU need the break from all this, too.<p>How cruel of him to say he wanted you to watch him have sex with one of your friends! But then, his addiction to pornography plays a huge part in this as well. A man who loves his wife and wants his marriage would not say those things.<p>The separation is scheduled for April 1st, right? Watch out for more intense words from him about how he doesn't want this. I'm sure they'll come. But perhaps this is what it is going to take for him either to realize he wants your marriage enough to seek help for his addictions, or for you to see if you really want to continue this marriage.<p>I'm praying for you, I know it's not an easy decision. <p>Ashygirl

LadyK! I used to follow your posts when I first started here! Lord, I am ashamed..I had no idea you were the same person! I missed the metamorphis!<p>For sure...BE STRONG with your plan B...and plan B doesn't have to be till contact ends..it can be until you see actions..real actions that last longer than a day or two.<p>Amazingly, Plan B was such a time of building self confidence for me..it may be that way for you also. I listed exactly what I had to have in place... no exceptions or negotiations and would review that whenever he'd call. I was pretty vunerable at that time myself..people here kept me pretty strong and focused.<p>Again, so sorry I confused you with someone else..I really thought you had left the boards...but, I am glad that spunk came out. Hey, whenever you feel yourself giving in with him..pretend he's me!
T

Thank you all for the wonderful support and guidance. I'm off on a business trip for 3 days and looking forward to the time away to make my lists and write that Plan B letter.<p>I'm printing this off to remind me of my anger and keep me grounded. <p>He's waiting for another apartment to call about availability so hopefully will have good news when I get home.<p>I'll write more when I get back.<p>God Bless and have an awesome week!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>P.S... I have not fulfilled his SF #1 need in about a week and he hasn't pressured too much. I'm emotionally distant from him and he is starting to sense it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ashygirl:
sorry, duplicate post

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well I'm back from my trip and although I was pretty busy even after hours I was able to review NSR's Plan B 101 2nd addition and also read some more in my boundaries book. I also wrote out a detailed Plan B letter and will post it here first to see if I missed anything.<p>My H was accountable for himself while I was gone - called when he had to leave the office for something and also had his boys with him both nights I was away (they are usually with their mom) so I know he was home and didn't have anyone over. He did keep telling me he missed me.<p>Hope everyone had a great week!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]