Hello there, if you want to I though I'd take our discussion about "What should a BS put up with" over here instead of Seahorse's thread.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Oh believe me, I have been there too. My h had an affair that lasted a couple of years. I found out when h told me about it, asking me for help. I have been working on my rebuilding of trust for 18 months now. I realize that this sight is here for those rebuilding but, both the marriage counselor my H and I went to and the psych told my H that I don't need to sit and wait around for him to "decide" who he wanted to be with. That either he chose to stay with me and work solely on our relationship and end the affair immediately or he was wasting my time and both the therapists time.
<hr></blockquote><p>Again I'm not an expert, your opinion makes sense too. Your therapist and couselor's seemed to be on the right track for your situation and Im glad you are so far into recovery! Im sure you could teach me a thing or two.<p>What I wanted to mention, however there does appear to be a difference in your situation and some others (including mine). Your H came back on his own and still loved you and wanted to work on it.<p>So, while im sure it isnt an easy choice for you to trust of forgive him. Many of us posting have a two pronged problem; the Affair, AND restoring love which was lost through lack of meeting needs. Dr. Harley's techniques (plan a/b) for dealing with both problems. <p>I guess you already knew all that, but what I am trying to empasize is that. I dont feel the advice of people here is saying to sit around and take it. Who needs the pain of getting stabbed int he heart repeatedly?! But one thing that I try to caution against (again heck Im far from a therapist) is making desicions out of pain or anguish. I know if I am feeling a lot of it I should wait till I am more calm to make an accurate judgement, or ask for other's advice on the situation, either my therapist, or MC or here sometimes.<p>Plan A is about getting on with you life working on you while remaining married. I wouldnt say it is waiting for the WS, but more continuing on your own path of improvement WHILE offering a hand back for the WS to catch up and join you there. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> .... why bother trying to go through therapy unless BOTH spouses are completely committed to eachother and there isn't a third party involved. It will NEVER work out if the OP is allowed to remain in the picture in any capacity.
<hr></blockquote><p>
Well thats something we ask ourself.. I do sometimes to. Why bother? Well I guess we have our own reason. Would you have been through with him if he hadnt come back to you and you found out? For me I see she made a mistake. I made a few as well. I promised to stay there for her through good times and bad. AND this is definately a bd time. I also still love her. I also look back on the 7 years we have and still treasure our times together and what she means to me. I wont let my mistakes or hers, or this other guys ruin it.<p>Oh 100% it will NEVER work out with the Op still in the picture. But who's to say the Op will always be in the picture? Thats what Plan A and plan B are for.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Looks to me like people who allow such behavior need to refocus on themselves and gain enough strength to say "me or the OP, you choose right now".
<hr></blockquote>
Well.. first off, I know you didnt mean it baddly, but none of us ALLOW the WS to do anything. Heck if it was as easy as a choice I would have done that in the beginning and been done with it. If the only issue was the OP thats fine. Tough love works well in those circumstances. But some of us like myself have let the marriage slip too long. I know if , at the time I found out about the A, I had asked my wife to make such a choice when she was so fogged, she would have left me. So thats why I chose to stick it in there, work on myself. Do my best to remind her what we had and what we could have. I think our love is on its way to being restored, I know at least our friendship is. If the problem of the OM is not solved in the process then I might look into dealing with it that way.<p>What do you think? Am I off the wall and a hopeless co-dependant? I am not trying to attack your viewpoint sorry if it seems like it, nor am I by far saying I am right, or evey using harley's methods correctly.
BUT I feel I am stronger than I have ever been emotionally. I know if things do not work out I will have the peace of knowing I've tried all I can AND that I will not carry any issuse into my next relationship should I choose to have one.<p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Hello. I was hoping to hear from you. I never meant to anger you, or tell you that what you are doing is wrong. It just troubles me sometimes when I read the posts from the betrayed spouse hurting so badly and referring to the fact that they know their husband/wife is with the other person and that they are sitting home crying/angry/confused.<p>I do realize that each situation is different than the next one. I know my story is not like anyone elses and so on. As for me, my H did tell me he had lost a lot of feelings for me, that he didn't know if he still loved me. We had more than our share of troubles in our marriage. Unfortunately I was naive enough to believe that love would carry us through anything, that we could push the issues aside and they would just go away if left unattended. We argued all the time, he worked longer and longer hours just to stay away, I was sad and made up for my sadness by trying to cheer myself up shopping (a very immature way to handle sadness, avoidance of real issues at home), H had his own business and he was struggling financially yet led me to believe he was doing so well, H had begun to drink more and more (which I pointed out, but he thought I was nuts) and was up to about 12 beers/day, he had gotten to the point of not caring if he drank a beer in the truck on the way home from work, didn't care if he drank in the middle of the work day, didn't believe he would ever be pulled over for having too much to drink (which fortunately he had no run-ins/accidents). Depression runs in his family, his mother committed suicide when he was a baby and he shuffled around a lot. A few years into our marriage his aunt attempted suicide and called my H to "save" her. So with all this going on in his life, he turned outside our relationship to deal with his problems, to someone who never had to face day-to-day life with him and that meant she only had good things to say to him, making her look like a bed of roses compared to the b%$^h he thought he had at home. I needed him to be home to do the "guy" stuff at home, like fix the bathroom, mow lawn, etc, all he did was look at that stuff like I was nagging. So, to say that he still loved me and it was easy, that is not the case. I got him to go to marriage counseling and individual psych appt to determine he was suffering from depression, obsessive/compulsive behavior, addictive tendencies and low self-esteem. So, my battle to stay married to this man was definitely an uphill battle. H had to commit to completely quitting drinking or the anti-depressants wouldn't work. H had to end all contact with OW or the marriage counseling wouldn't work. H had to write off his own business and suck it up and go back to his old job. This was all a lot of stress. His affair was a result of not wanting to deal with everything else and he needed to clear up everything else on top of ending his affair. <p>I guess with giving you way too much information, I am just pointing out to you that it wasn't easy for me either but that I was not going to sit by and allow him to have contact with her while deciding what to do with us. That just complicates the matter. I am also not saying that it is an easy thing for the aldulterer to do, ending all contact with OP that is. I have been down a long and winding road and I simply have no tolerance for people who drag the BS through such crud. It is such a hurtful time for the BS and I just think that for everything the BS has already been through, they shouldn't have to live with the knowledge that the WS doesn't care enough about their vows to put the BS first. I guess it just makes me sad.<p>As I said, I know my feelings are not necessarily in accordance with what is believed on this site, just sometimes I think another opinion can be valueable and help people to look at both sides of the coin.

Sandman1988 (by the way wouldnt it be sandwoman?) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hi there I was hoping you would write back! Nah Im not mad, I just wanted you to know where my advice was coming from also. Its definately not too much information, I wanted to know where your viewpoint came from also. I was wrong if I said that your situation was any easier, I did not mean that. Though it was definately more helpful that your H wanted to work on the M off the bat.<p>On that note, can I ask, if your H didnt tell you but you found out, and/or he didnt want to stop seeing the OW at first would you have ended it there? I dont think there is a right or wrong answer of course, and its hard to answer a hypothetical question after the fact, but I am just wondering.<p>I know how you feel. I hate to see the pain other BS' are going through. It just makes you want to reach out and try to shake some SENSE into some people how badly they treat others.<p>I 100% agree people deserve to have all voices on the matter and you should keep on posting here.<p>
-HI

Yep, you are right, Sandwoman would fit better. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But, I tend to have to stick with things I can remember, that was the name of my H's excavating business, therefore I can recall that easily enough.<p>I would really like to be able to honestly say that if my H had said that he didn't know if he wanted to work on the marriage that I would have sped down to the nearest lawyer and got myself divorced. That is what I had always said I would do if I found out he had been unfaithful. Unfortunately, when reality hits ya upside the head, it is a whole new ballgame. I felt that, considerring all the factors surrounding the affair, that we deserved a chance at happiness. We sat through endless hours of marital counseling, spent a ton of money on marital counseling (ins here covers individual but not couples counseling so we had to pay out of pocket), spent hours at a psychologist for my H and I have cried buckets of tears. The road has been long, the first 2 weeks or so after my H admitted to me that he had a "friend" and then with my prying admitting to the affair, those were some tough times. My H would tell me he wasnt' sure he wanted to be married at all. He did tell me that he wanted it over with her and that is why he came to me and told me about the affair, I did not find out on my own, he confessed to me. His confession was a way that he was asking me to help him, to either leave him and he could be miserable on his own (had said right away he wanted it over with her at least, that if we broke up, he wouldn't stay with her anyway), or to help him get the help he needed to get his life on track. He was at the end of his rope and didn't know where else to turn. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Gotta run for now. More later