Well I guess I blew the whole stupid thing. Its such a long stupid story I don't even know if I can type it all now. <p>A year ago I found out that H was having an affair with a very young girl (she's 19 and he's 32). When I found out I told him that I felt that he had broken all the vows and promises he made to me 15 years ago. From Feb. 2001 until this week I have waited patiently for him to give me a ring and renew our vows. 7 months after I orginally found out and it was supposed to be over, I found out again that it had been going on all along. <p>All the time I was waiting for him to make it right he was still screwing her. Well it ended in Sept. 2001 (I guess). I waited for him to give me a ring, through my birthday, our anniversary, christmas, new years, Valentines, you name it. Each time I would cry my eyes out and explain that I needed this to move on. I needed this to really know in my heart that it was over between them. He said he understood. So this weekend is March 16, the anniversary of our first date. I just knew that he was going to do it then...nope, no plans.<p>I found out last Saturday. He has no plans at all. I am devasted. I am dying inside. He will not do the one thing I need to get over this. I know my own heart. I know what I need. But he still refuses. I have cried solid for 3 days. I am throwing up and can't sleep at night unless I take pills.<p>I told him to pack his clothes and get out. He was going to tell our kids what he's done and he will not call or see me for a month. And then if he wants to he can start calling and we can start over again.<p>I chickened out and let him stay because I didn't want the kids to be afraid or upset. I didn't make him leave but told him that he could stay as a roommate only. No more sex or anything. Just take care of the kids and be kind to me <p>I am so through with this mess. How can a man say he loves you and that he is in love with you, do all the nice things he does but when it comes to the one thing I tell him I REALLY need he refuses...<p>I'm so depressed I'm taking antidepressant medication (maybe a little to much of it..)<p>I havent slept in days and everything I eat I throw up. I havent talked to him at all hardly. I have no desire. I begged him not to wait too long...I feel that he has....please help me I don't know what else to do......<p>I know I blew it but I can't help the despair I feel at his hurtful actions or lack of...<p>sorry so long...

M,
I will reply to bump this up and offer sympathy to you and hope for some "light" in your situation.
I guess that one question I might have is.....
Will the ring and renewed vows really make it alright?
Keep venting and good luck.
Brw [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Margue,
I know how you feel.<p> I also feel that our marriage has been a lie sine my H first cheated on me.<p> I got the ring, but am still waiting on the romantic proposal and new vows. H knows very well that I want this, and that I want him to WANT to remarry me. I have been sorely tempted to ask him if he ever intends to really ask me to remarry him. Oh, he's asked twice, but both times were after we'd had a fight, so I feel like it was just lip-service. Neither times were romantic. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p> Otherwise, he's doing much better and is more loving and affectionate. Hasn't been around the Cafe Woman since last June that I know of, but he has made it clear to me that his stopping going around her has nothing to do with me or my wishes.<p> I wish I had some advice for you, but since I'm in the same situation, I don't have any advice.<p> Chin up!<p>LC

Here's a HUG for you. It hurts so bad it can make you sick. It hurts when your expectations are not met. <p>Thinking about what brw said - will the ring and the renewed vows really make it all right? When you are able, you might want to read about renewing vows, echanging rings etc. on DearPeggy.com. <p>The ring is an outward sign of an internal committment. that's probably why it's so important. But....it won't keep them from A's.
More of that on Dearpeggy....<p>Once things have settled down,and not so emotional, you can always re-assess whether you want him at home or not. (Go to plan B or stay in plan A or plan C) <p>You might benefit with a session with Steve Harley.<p>More hugs to you.<p>God Bless

It's been 3 days and I'm still so depressed I can't get out of bed. (except to sneak in here this morning). No cards, no flowers, no dates no nothing. I told him that I knew that if I let him go and didn't push him anymore he would let our relationship die. It's true.<p>Yes the ring would mean so much to me because it would show his recommitment to the marriage. That he really wanted to be married to me. Well the part that is so upsetting to me is that he DOESNT want to be married to me. Otherwise he would have done it by now. I asked him what he was waiting for. He said it wasn't because he doesn't love me or want to be married to me. It was because he couldn't or hasn't forgiven himself for what he did to us.<p>It means everything to me. And I told him that the reason he won't commit to me is either he's still in love with her or he's still seeing her. I told him I didn't care if he screwed her in front of the world. I didn't care what he did or who he calls or where he goes. He owes me no explanation. We are only roommates after all. He doesn't want anything deeper or more meaningful.. fine. I don't even care anymore.

OK, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot here, so please don't misconstrue this. When your husband asked you to marry him the first time, were you begging him for a proposal? Probably not. Were you weeping and depressed? Probably not. Were you full of pain and hatred towards him? Probably not. I'm the BS, so I'm on your side here. But please understand that sometimes it's easier to lead a man than to push a man. He knows what YOU want, now work on making HIM want it to. If he thinks you aren't going to come around emotionally, he may hold back. Show him that you can pull yourself together. Show him the positives in you that attracted him to you in the first place. If you keep dwelling on this ring issue, you'll only continue to be depressed. Instead look at the positive things he has done to show you that he wants to work things out. And for the record, I have NO idea of the anniversary of my 1st date. Does He?

Jamup, yes he knows. I am real big on dates and he knows because we celebrate it every year. <p>I know I should be patient and wait but it's just so depressing that he doesnt want to be married again. I feel like he just doesnt want to make the effort. He is always telling me how much he loves me and he's in love with me and that he wants to make us work. That he loves me so much and I never deserved this. <p>SO WHY WON'T HE DO IT???<p>It's driving me beserk. I don't want him to touch me again. I've told him no sex until we are "married". If you want to play room mates I can too. I know I've probably blown it but I just don't have any thing left inside to deal with this crap he pulled.

First thing I'm going to do is repost some of what you have said so far. Then you know what I'm going to do.........lol......I've been right where you are....and it wasn't long ago.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am so through with this mess. How can a man say he loves you and that he is in love with you, do all the nice things he does but when it comes to the one thing I tell him I REALLY need he refuses... <hr></blockquote><p>Please don't take anything of what I say the wrong way.<p>I know that YOU feel that this is what YOU need to make you feel like he is married to you and commited to your relationship......but what about all the other things that he does?
What about what HE needs to feel this way?
What about the things that he needs to work out within himself so that he CAN do these things for you?
Is it possible that he sees that you are being a little selfish?
Isn't it also possible that you just THINK that this will help you. You don't really know since it's not happened. What are you going to do if it happens and it doesn't help you?
Are you going to start making more demands?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I know I blew it but I can't help the despair I feel at his hurtful actions or lack of... <hr></blockquote><p>You are sooooooo looking at nothing but what you want right now. Sorry....but that is what it seems like from my point of view....and maybe from your H's.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It's been 3 days and I'm still so depressed I can't get out of bed. (except to sneak in here this morning). No cards, no flowers, no dates no nothing. <hr></blockquote><p>Would you want to go out with someone that is acting all depressed? Maybe he thinks that THOSE things will not help you right now. You are giving him the impression that NOTHING will help you but rings and a ceremony.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Yes the ring would mean so much to me because it would show his recommitment to the marriage. That he really wanted to be married to me. Well the part that is so upsetting to me is that he DOESNT want to be married to me. Otherwise he would have done it by now. I asked him what he was waiting for. He said it wasn't because he doesn't love me or want to be married to me. It was because he couldn't or hasn't forgiven himself for what he did to us. <hr></blockquote><p>Do YOU know that he doesn't want to married to you? Can you get inside his mind and read it?
You need to give him time to work things out for himself too. They...the WS's....don't really just get over it in a day like we think they do. Sometimes it takes a good while for them to forgife themselves. And...until they do....they can't really do much for others.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It means everything to me. And I told him that the reason he won't commit to me is either he's still in love with her or he's still seeing her. <hr></blockquote><p>You told him the reason he won't commit?
Do you really know?
Now you are speaking and trying to think for him.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know I should be patient and wait but it's just so depressing that he doesnt want to be married again. I feel like he just doesnt want to make the effort. He is always telling me how much he loves me and he's in love with me and that he wants to make us work. That he loves me so much and I never deserved this. <p>SO WHY WON'T HE DO IT???
<hr></blockquote><p>Like I said before......several times......even if he DOES do it now, aren't you going to wonder whether he's doing it because he wants to or because you've talked and talked and talked about it so much?<p>You say you feel like he doesn't want to make the effort......but what about all the other effort that he's put into it so far?<p>Your H may reach a point where he thinks that NOTHING he does is going to make you happy if you keep going on about this. <p>He IS trying.....I can tell that from your previous posts. It is good when you tell him that you see that he is trying......but then again.....you beat him over the head with the fact that he isn't doing what YOU want him to do......and he's asking himself......what about what I need.<p>It's a cycle.....and it's usually how the relationship starts going downhill in the first place....which is what lead one to stray.<p>I went for 5 months with no rings on my fingers.
At first I was acting just like you.....wqanting wanting and wanting them on my fingers.
I got so upset when it never happened.<p>Come to find out....my H wanted to surprise me with them....and indeed he did. AND....he didn't want me to think that he was just doing it because I kept harping him about it.<p>After I got them on my finger there was no magical spell that released all my fears. It actually wasn't as important as I thought it would be. I realized that I was being selfish.....just as selfish as he had been during his A. I forgot to think about what he needed and what he needed to do.<p>You're playing a game now.....refusing to be with him intimately......your punishing him for not doing it your way and it may backfire on you.<p>Sorry to sound so harsh. I think you should start focusing on the GOOD things that he has and continues to do rather than the things YOU WANT him to do.

I feel for you, the whole situation is distressing. The thing I want to tell you is that no matter what value you place on a symbol it has no meaning.<p>[censored] told me he broke it off with her, we went to the mall and both of us got new rings, went to dinner, the whole nine yards.<p>The first thing he did when he was alone and had that ring on his finger was call her.<p>The next time he saw her, he had sex with her, didn't even bother to take off the ring.<p>A ring is a piece of jewelry. If it was a magic shield with power to fend of preditor bimbettes it would have worked with the original ring. <p>We are now divorced.<p>I want you to look at the things behind the ring, the feelings, the trust, the bond. If you want to be married to him, be married to him. Find out what is wrong with your med or the dose, get your @ss into the shower, put a little lipstick on and wear some underwear without holes in it. Make a nice dinner, be pleasant when he comes home, <p>In other words, TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE.<p>I just don't want you to end up regretting things. I don't want you or anyone else to cry anymore. There are so many things that are important in a marriage, and how can you focus on them if you are set in only one track?<p>I wish someone had told me that the whole ring thing was wishful thinking. That is why I am telling you. <p>If we could put the collective experience that is on here in a vial, it would be powerful stuff.<p>Call your doctor hon, whatever you are on isn't doing the trick.<p>Elizabeth

Miss Priss,<p>thanks for the kick in the pants... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You are probably right about all of this. I just can't seem to get him to understand how important it is to me. It's not the stupid rings, it's that he knows how much it would mean to me and he knows how I feel about it. He has not met ANY of my EN in the 16 years we've been married. I've always been the one giving and giving and giving. Everyone will tell you the same thing. It's always me. <p>Just once I would like for him to be the one to give alittle. Just once to take into account my feelings. I know that he is a selfish, selfcentered person. And alot of that is my fault. His needs/wants have always come before anyone elses in this house. He always had his meals cooked, his kids taken care of, all the sex he could want. We were best friends. I just got tired of wanting more from out marriage and trying to drag it out of him.<p>So I withdrew. That's when he had the A. I was so pissed off I could just about explode. Now that he has done the damage, why would he NOT want to repair it? If I told him that to get over this I needed him to wash dishes for a year would it be too much to ask for what he did to us/me? I think that he is just so stinking selfish that he's only thinking about himself as always.<p>I know it sounds awful, but I have been meeting his need. I've been trying so hard it's ridiculous. For years! Not just now. The only two needs he has that I have not met in the past are "attractive spouse" and I'm not the worlds most consistant house keeper. And even those I have made a 180 degree turn around for him. <p>So why can't he do the one thing I ask him for? The one thing that I have told him would mean so much to me? I don't know. And frankly right now I dont care. I'm so hurt from all of this...<p>justthewife, I'm going to go have lunch with him. He called and asked. I'm going to try to be pleasant. At least try anyway. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: margue ]</p>

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You sound like you are talking about my WH! However, the only demand I made on him when he ended the A was that we say a prayer together every morning before he went to work (since he still works with her). And of course the demand to be honest. The rest of our recovery we worked out together. I even encouraged him to come up with HIS OWN solutions to repairing the damage. And yes I got a new ring. I did not wear my wedding ring for about 2 weeks after D-Day. I told him that when I put it back on he would know I was going to stay. When I did put it back on, he said, "you know that ring has been violated, I need to get you another one." I just shrugged my shoulders. Like - it doesn't matter - whatever. About 2 mo after D-Day we went (with him insisting) and bought me a 2 1/3 carat solitare diamond. No he did not make a big to-do about reproposing, no we did not restate our vows. If I had insisted, he would probably have done all of that, but what's the point if you Force him to do it. You can't continually hold your forgiveness over his head like a carrot, constantly yanking it out from under him. He can't earn it. Period. You don't earn forgiveness, it is a gift from the offended person. We (the BSs) say, "You have brought hurt and betrayal into the marriage, but instead of trying to continually put my hurt back on you (the WS) I accept my part of the pain and offer you my forgiveness." You can't always have something else waiting that he has to do in order to gain your favor again. Communicate with him. Ask him "are you willing to try to meet my ENs?" Tell him "I want to meet yours, but I feel anger about ...., and when I'm angry I do not do a good job of meeting your ENs." Talk!! Surely somewhere in there you'll connect with him on an emotional level. I'd try to fix some of that without mentioning the ring. Personally I'd drop the ring. He know you want it, but it seems what he needs to realize has more to do with your ENs than a ring.

Good grief! I didnt pay attention for a bit, sorry Margue! Did I miss more than I think? Other than the rings m'friend, did anything new happen?<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I think you are too far away for me to throw something at you like I promised should you blow up about the rings again.... So no need to look over your shoulder for a wild runnaway MB guy with a pillow. Anyway running fom the east coast to bop you for being a noodge might be too tiring. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Remember M. It takes mutual respect for both of you to recover. Recovery from an A, is recovery for US as BS' and for THEM too as WS'. You cant ... or at least shouldnt rush his recovery anymore than he would have had the right to say something like "ok its A happened last week, now get over it" to you! Please be patient. You two have SO much! I was always so jealous (in a good way) everytime you posted one of your happy posts. You've both come a long way.. but remember its not a race. by that I mean there is no grand finish line that you can rush to to fix either of your feelings & souls. <p>You didnt blow it. You might have taken a few steps back, but you didnt end it. Get back there and put your nose to the recovery grindstone Margue. ok?<p>-HI<p>[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Jamup, I've tried to get him to pray with me. I have for the last 16 years. He will pray with everyone else but me. I don't know why and he has admitted he has a problem with it. Who knows?<p>It has been 6 months since D day and I think that he's had enough time to work on getting me a ring. I know that sounds awful selfish. But I have never been selfish in our relationship. Ever.. so for once I am asking him for MY needs. Is that too much to ask? <p>I don't feel like I'm forcing him, it's just that I do not feel that I can go any further with out it. He can do as he pleases. I don't even care anymore. He can either pursue me or drop it I don't care anymore. It's his decision. I will not be the one to drag him kicking and screaming into this relationship as I always have. I am the one that reads the books and tries to make things right. Not him. So the one time I say it's up to you, he can't do it. It makes me so angry. All I've ever wanted from this man is to feel like I am the most important person in his life, I never have. Then I watch him destroy everything in his life for a whore. He made her more important then his family, me, our kids, our church, and almost lost his job over her. I have never felt that important to him. <p>sssooo I'm asking him for one thing. He can't do that???? What gives????<p>Hanginin,
hahaha, I will be looking over my shoulder....I live in South Florida. I hope you can't throw that far.... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well you kind of missed me going crazy about a week ago. There have been too many trigger lately and I'm a bit of a basket case, I'm afraid.<p>Other then that tomorrow is our 17th anniversary of us going out (first date). I was expecting him to do something special. Guess I was just being stupid....and I went a little nuts the other night. <p>We went out for lunch yesterday. Had a nice time. It was fun. I was trying so hard not to be a drag. I'm just so damn depressed I cant stand it. It's hard to be up when you feel so lousy. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm still not having sex with him. I just can't, no desire. It's been almost a week. And frankly I don't think he really cares. He is not acting like he's interested either. So no big deal I guess. Or maybe he's still doing her. How would I know?? I don't call him any more during the day. I told him if you want to talk to me you call. I'm through chasing you. If we make it, it's up to you. I'm through.<p>Awful huh... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

First, I do sympthsize with your pain, and I am sorry you are in this spot right now. But, please look at what you've written: <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He said it wasn't because he doesn't love me or want to be married to me. It was because he couldn't or hasn't forgiven himself for what he did to us.<p>...And I told him that the reason he won't commit to me is either he's still in love with her or he's still seeing her.<hr></blockquote><p>I see loads of lovebusters in your approach. You are not listening to him...he's telling you he feels guilty and can't do this until he gets fuirther along in forgiving himself. You are not listening to his openness on this issue.<p>Then you go on to tell him what he feels (an enormous disrespectful judgement). <p>And, you are demanding that the ring/vows are the only way to fix things.<p>Relax. It is very common for BS, esp wives, to feel that new vows/ring will make things right somehow. They don't fix a thing...they are not some kind of magical talisman. They can, however, be a symbol of healing and new starts...but let the healing happen, OK? Continuing to demand it won't help...healing happens in its own time.<p>Unless you have some other reason to doubt your H's truthfulness, accept that he is not healed enough, hasn't forgiven himself enough to go through vows yet. When he gets to that point, I bet he will...and he won't be fighting back unhappy feelings as he says them.<p>Hugs--<p>Kathi

ok so how do I go about undoing the mess I made. I basically told him we are room mates. I don't call him any more. I don't sleep with him (sex) The only reason he's still in my room and my house is because of the kids, I told him that. I told him I didn't care what he does or who. I told him that he waited too long and I'm tired of waiting. <p>so how do you undo all of that?????

HELP [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Margue,<p>I am a BS like you and share all of your hurt. I have been working at it for 11m. I was big on the ring thing for a long while but my C made a good point recently that if the ring did not mean enough to honor the vows when you were married why would you think they would have any meaning now. Man that hurt but was full of truth.
As far as the depression. I have been at the lowest of all lows for some time but medication and positive actions have helped me climb out of the hole. Get your meds checked and stick with them.
Got to go but will be back soon.
Hang in and we are praying for your continued healing and strength.
jim

Margue,<p>I am a BS like you and share all of your hurt. I have been working at it for 11m. I was big on the ring thing for a long while but my C made a good point recently that if the ring did not mean enough to honor the vows when you were married why would you think they would have any meaning now. Man that hurt but was full of truth.
As far as the depression. I have been at the lowest of all lows for some time but medication and positive actions have helped me climb out of the hole. Get your meds checked and stick with them.
Got to go but will be back soon.
Hang in and we are praying for your continued healing and strength.
jim

I know all the logical reasons that rings shouldnt make a difference. But they do. <p>Maybe it's an issue of showing her. I guess because we have so many friends in common that if they know that we have recommitted our vows to each other, she's left out in the cold. <p>So if she wants to settle for being a whore in the back seat of a car, that's her choice but he bought me a ring and renewed our vows. Does that make sense. Probably not.. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]