I just sent my WH letting him know that I was setting him free and to please set me free. I really don't think I am strong enough to plan A. I want to save my marriage, but really don't believe my husband is trying in anyway and he works with the OW. My job is tied to both of theirs and it is excrutiating just to come to work. I can't sleep or eat much and I am constantly on the verge of tears thinking of the betrayal and the knowledge of all the love letters and their contents and his heartfelt expressions that this woman is his soulmate and that he has never been this much in love.<p>How do they ever go back into a marriage even if the BS forgives? I know this site talks about the fog, but it's hard to believe these expressions of true love to this other person were false.<p>I am having trouble moving on to a different place and wonder if it wouldn't be better for me to just give up. I need some words of encouragment from those of you that have been through this. I just cannot see the future as bright with this man right now. It is debilitating.

I am going through what you are at this point myself. My husband says he loves this other woman and that he, too, has never been this much in love. He is trying to decide between her and our marriage. He says if he breaks from her, he will be emotionally destroyed. Yet, makes me feel as if our marriage ends -- it's an "oh well" situation.<p>Do you give up or keep trying? I don't think you should give up on your marriage - because then YOU will be the one always left with the "what ifs" and the questions of whether or not you gave up too soon. If your marriage is going to end, he needs to end it. Don't allow yourself to take the blame for the end of your marriage.<p>If you want your husband and still love him, I say to hang in there....but not at the expense of your own sanity. Don't let him destroy you. If that is almost where you are, maybe instead of giving up, just take a break from it all for awhile. Get away.

[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

USH,<p>Hello my friend. Please stop for just a min and relax. I know. How? Well there's really nothing you can do at this point in time. There is something key about what I just said. Its not the word nothing, its not the word do. Its the word time.<p>As time goes on, 'nothing' and 'do' will become relevant. But right now, being the place where your WH is at, there is nothing, and there is no doing.<p>Don't let him go, don't let yourself go. Time will teach you how to to do this. What you can do for YOU right now is realize that he IS in an AFFAIR. From your signature line, it seems that this is all new to you.<p>Our situations are so different than each other, but the common ground that all of us stand on is that we are the BS and our WS are involved in an affair. Someone here is in the same phase of the cycle of the Affair that you are. AND there are lots of us here who have been right where you are at, wanting to quit!! Lots of us quit everyday. We throw our hands up and get tired of trying. What you need to do is learn that your enemy here is time. Time is what you need to surpass all of this. Its an ailment, a cancer, a cold, and its going to be an education of yourself that you never wanted. <p>There are somethings that you need to do over TIME for him to realize that he loves you and doesn't love the OW. Affairs can end overnight, or they can last a lifetime. NEARLY ALL don't last. If there is a cycle in anything in life there is a cycle in 'life of an affair'. Affairs begin and progress at different speeds. They die and fade the same. But there are so many other things that an affair is made up of. By following the MB principals, you can learn about the things that are going to happen and the things that aren't. <p>Like the cylce that you experience every month, or the cycle that a woman goes through, in order to deliver a child, or the cycle that we go through to breath, the processes that come and go are typically paralled between say you and I, your WH and my WW, your HOW and my WOM. He is going to feel like he is in deep excrutiating love. He is going to be torn at being away from you. He is going to fence sit, as if he was going to get his [censored] beat if he stepped down on either side. Its going to happen. You are going to think thoughts of suicide, walking away. You are going to loose weight, quit eating and suffer the pains of depression. How you deal with all of those things is going to determine in the end, where your marriage is. Being that his affair is going to end. Unless he runs out and divorces you, the marriage is in your hands. He left you there alone to take care of it. He MAY want to come back to it, but he's not going to come back to a wife in constant triage. (yes, I'm listening to my own words [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) Helping others helps us realize where we are going wrong.<p>SO how long? How much? How long it takes you cannot control. You are about to take the ride of your life, as you already know. I'm sorry that you are feeling so much pain. Each of us handles the emotional lose differently. Plan A and Plan B (although I don't know about Plan B, yet [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) works. SO You can merely stomach the lies, the deceit, the loneliness or you can say your done and move on. If you do the latter, you will leave loose ends for him to deal with and for you. This relationship with the OW is going to end. When? I don't have a clue, and neither does anyone else. But, you can do this. You can make it through this. The man upstairs is not going to allow you anymore suffering than you can handle. (I hated when people used to tell me that, so sorry.) <p>You can click on some of the links below to see what you have to do.

Thank you. Some days are better than others. I was feeling hopeful like I was really doing a good job of plan A and my husband (we're separated) wanted to come skiing with me this weekend and I was really looking forward to that. Then, I have to call his office to talk to someone else and I hear OW's voice and I just fall apart again.<p>It just seems so surreal. Those love letters are etched in my brain and I can't seem to get them out of there -- they are like a cancer that is clouding my mind. I just imagine that he and the OW are sitting at work thinking -- boy have we got her fooled. My H will pretend he's "working on things" and that he is just going to announce in a month or two that he tried, but gee he can't get his love back and then take off with the OW. That he will do this so that people won't be able to say our M ended because of his affair. I don't know where these thoughts are coming from other than an extension of all the lying and betrayal that went on.<p>I really do feel like an alien has taken over my husband's brain. It's not that I cannot believe it was possible for him to fall in love with someone else, it's more that I cannot believe he could lie repeatedly and be so cruel. <p>It's been almost two month since D-Day and I am having a setback. The A is probably still going on and it's driving me nuts.

I know how you feel. My husband left today to be with the OW. We spent the week end together as a family and also took some time alone. I believe OW gave him a hard time about not calling 10 times a day and my WH is taking it out on me. This is the lowest I've felt since DD 12/27/01. My husband was still saying he was torn between OW and me and our family...but now he seems to hate the sight of me. I allowed him back into the house to try a Plan A for a while but the affair is still going strong and now it is under our noses. He's set up his own apartment on the lower level of our house for privacy and he thinks discretion for our young daughters... but I'm so afraid that the arrangement will be harmful for them. How do you get through Plan A and all the pain and humiliation? Steve Harley told me not to don't push him now, he's in the fog....I feel like I'm in hell. Everyday gets harder and harder to bear. He tells me she is the love of his life after only 6 months...and I'm nothing after 32 years. I'm so devestated. Can anyone help me through this?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Romantic love is the weakest, the basest, the most primitive of love. It is the infancy of love. It is that hear-fluttering, pulse-quickening feeling you get around the other person. It's not REAL love. It feels good, and a lot of times, we miss that feeling when we've been with the same person for a long amount of time.<p>However, what many people forget is that love is an ever-changing emotion. As it matures, it moves from that fleeting excitement to a more steady, comfortable safety/security feeling. Many people think that when the "passion" subsides, the love dies. They don't realize that the passion comes and goes, sometimes leaving for a long while, only to return stronger than ever. They think they've fallen out of love and they go looking for the excitement they once had, thinking that is real love.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>What the three of you need to remember is that they your husbands didn't stop loving you as you perceive it. If they fell out of love with you, you would have noticed it long before the affair(s) began. Your husbands still love you and what your marriage represents. They don't want it right now. They don't want the mature love that they know comes from the both of you. The romantic love is what they have now. And if you remember when you met your husband, how that was. Remember the MB principals. They walked away from you with only a part of themselves. The OW only has part of your husband. As long as you continue to meet some of your husbands needs, their affair is doomed, to a sooner swifter death. <p>With my wife, her OM has been trying to fulfill my W's needs. She won't let go of the needs that I fulfill in order for the OM to succeed in moving INTO mature love. Romantic love dies in a marriage many times. It grows and dwindles over time, like a breathing lung. When affairs begin, your romantic love between you and your husband must have been in the 'valley'. You cannot rekindle that love right now. You have to maintain the 'mature' love that is between you. The shared love that has kept you together for all these years.<p>Does that help any?

Dear SemperFI
Thank you for the words of encouragement...I only wish I knew what elements of our mature love I can preserve. Do I allow him to stay in the house and contact OW without any discrimination or discretion.....does that show how much I love him or what a doormat I've become? His anger and cruelty towards me is so difficult to bear.... I want my marriage and children to survive this ordeal but I don't know how long I can wait. He is the love of my life and now the source of the greatest pain in my life. Some days I don't know if it's worth all the suffering.

unsureheart
angelsendslove
wintergal <p>Ladies, H2Y has shared his wonderful insight with you. This man is patience personified. He knows what he is talking about. Read and reread what he has written. As your journey continues, his words will have deeper and deeper meaning. (Thanks, H2Y [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Let me add, though, that time can be an ally as well as an enemy. Most WS break up with OP sooner or later. The problem is that, at the phase of your H's affairs that you are in now, the pain is so deep that it overwhelms everything.<p>There is a philosophy that unsureheart's first post made me thing of. Maybe one of the other MBs can remember the exact source. Basically, it says that we cannot control or change anybody other than ourselves. This specifically refers to WS in affairs. Release them from your attempt to control them or the situation. Release them to the consequences of their own choices. Release them because they will not truly be yours until you do. They are not yours to hold on to. If they do not choose to stay (or return), you do not have them anyway. NOW - that being said - isn't it a horribly difficult thing to do?? YES, it most definitely is probably the hardest thing you have ever had to consider.<p>Plan A is for YOU, not WS. Plan A does not require that you accept everything your WS wants. Each family is different. You are the only one who can decide what you can tolerate from WS and maintain your self-respect, protect your children, and keep from losing the last vestages of love you still have for your H. We call this setting boundaries. (For example, the possibility of wintergal's WH entertaining OW in the downstairs apartment is a real possibility. A restraining order against OW to keep her off your property might be in order. Of course, WH will probably be furious, but this is where each BS must make her own choice.)<p>When you get to the point that you cannot stand to deal with the pain of your situation any longer(as you imply, unsureheart), there is Plan B. Let me know if you do not know where to find that info on the main site. Plan B is for self-protection, not as a way to punish WS. <p>angelsendslove is right about letting WS do the work to end a M. Do not do anything hastily. Do not rush to dissolve the M. Let this A run its course, if you can stand it. Try not to let this discourage you, but you are just beginning your journey through recovery from infidelity. You will all recover, and you WILL heal. As you have probably read, recovery may not mean the same thing for all of you. But recovery occurs even if the M does not.<p>FYI, I am not BS. Rather I am the mother of a BS. I have learned a huge amount here in the year my S has been dealing with his W's infidelity. Come talk to us. Keep posting. Try really hard to rise above your pain and choose the dignified, loving response since your H's are not. That way, as time passes, you will be able to look back on this period of your life as a time of growth and learning and eventual healing.<p>Here is a link to a thread that might help a little.
Letting Go<p>My prayers are with you, and your children, and your marriages.<p>Estes<p>[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Wintergal,<p>Do NOT kick him out of the house. Don't keep him there if he wants to go. Let him leave. But DO NOT encourage it. Once he's out, the OW will have more opportunities to fulfill his needs. Once that happens, your looking at a long tug of war.<p>Yes its very very hard to have him there. If he is going to stay there in the home, there need to be some boundaries that you set. I can't help you with those, as being the male, they would probably be all wrong for your situation. I'm sure that some of the other BSW can help you set some rules. <p>ORCHID!!! would be one of the nice ladies to help you with that. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sweetie,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I want my marriage and children to survive this ordeal but I don't know how long I can wait. He is the love of my life and now the source of the greatest pain in my life. Some days I don't know if it's worth all the suffering.<hr></blockquote><p>You have children. Look at them. You will survive this. I know you want your marriage. Then its the marriage you fix. Not your husband.<p>I'll be back in a few.. had to run.. sowwy.

HiUnsure- I felt exactly the same way as you describe feeling at the 2 mo point after d-day. My H too worked with the OW who was single and pursuing him big-time! She not only wanted my H, she wanted my new big house, to be step-mom to my 3 kids the works!!!She told H constantly that if he came back to me, I would do it just for the money and leave him later on, that divorce wouldnt hurt our children, that I would NEVER be able to forgive him etc WHATEVER she could think of to get him to divorce me to be with HER!I can emphasize too much how her thinking influenced him during this time though I didnt know about alot of that until he broke it off with her eventually. I was desperately unhappy and went from a short Plan A to Plan B the first month after d-day. He was glad to move out of our house and moved into OW"s condo. The next 2 mo he came by to see our kids but was incredibly cold to me and kept bringing up divorce and that our marriage was 'hopeless.' He even looked at apts. and visited attorneys on his lunch hrs. I told him I would NEVER agree to a no-fault divorce and that God hates divorce and divorce is WRONG! He would always argue with me about that but eventually over time it sank in. H filed for divorce on me 3 mo after d-day at the urging of OW and then he suddenly CRACKED and said he DID love me and was making the WORST mistake of his life! From then on we've been in counseling and its been a year now since d-day. Affairs DO eventually end. Be there when it does and you can still recover your marriage. Its not easy but it can be done. Have you read surviving an affair? My H had the intense soulmate affair ( I found cards she wrote to him in his briefcase). It hurt like crazy but in the end he chose 'mature' love we've had for 16 yrs NOT the heady infatuation swept away love that appealed to his mid life crisis stage he was in last year. lifeismessy age 39 mom to 3 great kids!

Thank you all for your responses. I was able to keep it together when WH called last night. I know I definitely meet some of his needs -- he calls every night and every morning and wants to get together to do something fun/recreational at least once on the weekend. I also know though that he is still in daily contact with OW.<p>I have read everything I can get my hands on -- surviving affairs, after the affair, lovebusters, the gift of sex, etc etc. I have sent him a letter communicating what I believed I contributed to making him feel he needed to get needs met elsewhere. Some days I am strong and hopeful and other days depressed. <p>He finally agreed to go to an IC -- he has so many issues other than just the A, including self esteem issues, etc. and he is definitely in some MLC right now. His grim apartment has no pictures up except from his mountaineering adventures at ages 19/20. I can't recreate his youth for him.<p>I know plan A is for me and I have been doing everything I can think of to make myself enjoy life in the middle of this -- taking trips with my girlfriends, telemark skiing lessons, evenings out with friends. But the bottom line is that I love my WH and I miss him terribly. <p>Yesterday was a really bad day. I'm 39 and badly want children and it hasn't happened for me yet. I feel like time is slipping away.

Thanks for all your replies...I've told my husband that under no circumstances was OW ever to be in our home or meet my girls. He agreed to that. He will not agree to be discreet in our home when talking to OW however...wanted him to wait till girls went to bed before he called OW. He told me he can't wait because late evening calls disturb her little girl...never mind his young daughter and how his calls affect her.
Well it's day 2 of his third trip to OW in less than a month and a half. He called me from the airport to say he arrived safely. Told me his cell phone is off but he would check it from time to time...he doesn't want to take precious time away from OW answering calls. I also asked him not to call from OW house as it caused me and the girls great pain. He angrily agreed not to and said stopping communication while he was there is bad for our marriage.
I think I did a LB when I asked him before he left why the sham he lives up there doesn't bother him and yet he's angry that I've withheld the situation from my elderly parents. (OW lives 800 miles away...company headquarters A...she's told her entire family ..children, XH, parents,sisters and friends that my husband has been divorced for years and can't come to her full time because of family and job committments)
He said it wasn't the same thing because he lives with the pressure at home of maintaining a relationship with my parents ... the stress is on him...up there the stress is on her. I said if he cared for her, I'd think that stress on her would bother him. I lie about the situation to protect my parents not my reputation.
Anyway, we spent alot of family time together over the week-end and I think OW was very annoyed because he didn't call several times a day...now he's angry with me.
He won't be calling me I know and that's so hard...we've had many separations over the years ..military and job and his voice each day got me through them. I want him home so much but the times I visualize him with OW and her daughters just tear me up inside. I hope I can survive this awful trial he's putting my love through.
Wintergal

Husband2you -- I see by your tag line that you are currently separated. Do you have any advice as to how to plan A from afar/during separation. I asked my husband to move out before I read all these books/got this website. So I can't put the genie back in the bottle -- he's out of the house. I realize now that was not my best move, but I am trying to make the best of it now.<p>Also, in Wintergal's case, I'm not sure I understand why it is a great idea to have her WH living separately in the house doing what he's doing to her head. Maybe I'm just more than a little bit selfish, but I think it must be very hard for her and her children to be put through this specific situation.

Dear Unsureheart
I am torn between keeping WS in the house and how it may affect me and my girls....so much advice about not booting him out and hanging in there. I really do need some advice about boundaries though...Husband2You mentioned talking with some of the ladies specifically Orchid....How do I do that? I'm afraid I don't have much savy when it comes to computers. OW is an expert and it's my husband's line of work....they have that in common too. Anyway, I'm having a hard night....I was supposed to take my little girl out and I'm just not up for it. I cried all the way home from my appointment tonight. What a mess I am. How attractive would that be to WS...not much I'm sure. Any advice regarding boundaries would be greatly appreciated. Money issues and time spent with OW specifically.
Wintergal

I would suggest posting a new post and titling it "ORCHID, please help" and then copy in some of what you've already posted and say that Husband2you suggested she would be a good mentor. <p>I think that way she'll see it in the title and respond. <p>I really wish you peace and luck. This is so hard sometimes and so unbelievable that it really helps to have others listening and responding just so you don't feel alone and crazy (which is how I'm feeling about 75% of the time right now).

Wintergal -- I addition to starting a new post to Orchid... I had one other thought.<p>Are you seeing a therapist? I had never been to one before, but it has been helpful just to have someone to talk to once a week when I really started to feel down.<p>I hope some of the other women who are much further down the road respond to you -- I'm so new to this/just in the vacillating between angry, sad and feeling abandoned stage. Today is better than yesterday -- I think largely due to the fact that I went to the gym and ran as hard as I could on the treadmill for 30 minutes. Gives me the illusion of running away from it all -- not what I want to do most days, but effective and keeps me from really running away. The Peace Corps was looking pretty good yesterday. Today, I thought I am not going to let these two selfish people mess up my life. Tomorrow will be something altogether different I'm sure.<p>Know that there are people here that feel your pain with you and maybe can take some of it from your heart -- when we all share it, it becomes a little less painful.

Dear Unsureheart
I have been seeing a therapist since Jan.1...at first with WS and then when he couldn't give up OW
he stopped coming with me....No need, since he wasn't interested in working on the marriage. We usually go separately to the same man...we brought our middle daughter once and then saw him together the other day. We have an appointment together next week....I don't know why he suddenly is agreeing to go with me...he just trashes me in every session. Anyway,thanks for the support and advise...all of you have been great. The site has helped me feel less lonely...
Wintergal

unsureheart, Please excuse my interrupting your thread.<p>wintergal,<p>I am going to bump a topic I posted earlier today for you. I am interested in your story.<p>Thanks,
Estes