Does anyone have any success stories with this concept? <p>OK, I’ve been busy this week, but had some thoughts to share today. Just wondering about a couple things …<p>This affection thing or lack there of, has been an issue with me regarding my DW, long before I ever heard of MB. In our 31 years of marriage she has never said with any degree of sincerity that she loves me. She tells me that she is just not that kind of person & she has a hard time saying those words to anyone. And of course since D/Day & this topic has been discussed and is has been a focus, I believe she is particularly careful not to use those words when saying good bye on the phone with family for example. Although in the past she would use those words with parents on occasion & our daughter or son. Also, if her cousins would say that or any family member, she would normally reciprocate with similar words.<p>She had talked with one of her sisters for the first time on the phone for a couple years (we see her when we go back to Indiana, but they have not communicated between visits). In saying good bye, I am sure her sister said, “ I love you” because I heard her say, “I love you.”<p>It seems so easy for her to show others affection, yet so hard to show me any affection. When we see friends and are parting she is always taking initiative for hugs & kisses – again seems so natural & I know she says it is “socially expected thing” – well, why can’t some signs of affection towards her husband be a “socially expected thing?”
Whenever I tell her “I Love you,” like when I am saying good by on the phone or leaving the house, her typical response is, “I know.” She has actually told me she prefers I don’t tell her that I love her, because she can’t return the words & she feels guilty.
In her defense I will say that her parents are very un-affectionate towards each other – have slept in separate bedrooms for past 20 some years as an example & I have never know her dad to ever get her mom a card or a gift, other than a sofa chair or vacuum sweeper or yard tools or something like that. On his daughter’s urging, he did get her a piece of jewelry for their 50th anniversary this past summer – one of the daughters has worked in a jewelry store for 10 years & this was first purchase – her mom declined to get him an anniversary present. Some celebration, huh!
Whenever I have brought this up about her not showing me any affection, she will always get defensive ( I guess I could expect this – accusatory?) and tell me that she is just never going to be the women I want her to be, who is all lovey, dovey – “June Cleaver, adoring her husband type.” She has never used the “adoring husband” terms as such, but that is the jest of it – making an extreme example and in very satirical tone, like I am a real wimp to ask for this!<p>Last week when she cut me off & was rude to me when I had called her a second time within 30 minutes – this was in the morning and her day off. She later apologized and explained that she had a lot to do & wanted to get on with her day. As with my being upset with her shortness – her basic response was that I have a problem – too sensitive – I take things too personally & that I need to get back to counseling. <p>No matter how diplomatic or objective I have tried to be, virtually anytime I broach the subject her showing me a little affection, she gets upset & an argument pursues. So consequently, this is an issue I do not bring up very often. <p>Any suggestions?<p>Re: counseling – she had said she would go to couples counseling again – wanted a new counselor though – she never followed any advice from past C – I am a little frustrated – to start a new means two or three sessions with history & the like – I guess no choice, if she is not going to comply with other counselor’s ideas.<p>Our cell phone bill was due & I was checking records (which I have not done for a long time!!) and noticed she put a call into her counsel on Wednesday – she has not said a word to me about this – she has not seen him for at least a three or four months – at least to my knowledge – I suppose she may tell me if she sees him – perhaps not until afterwards, that way, she maintains her independence & autonomy & confidentiality thing I suppose – you know, what she speaks to her counselor about is not any of my business. At one point last summer in fact, he had told her that she did not even have to tell me when she met with him.<p>Now, this does not give me a warm & fuzzy feeling that she is seeking his advice on how to be a better mate or idea to improve the marital relationship, but strictly on her issues. This of course is not a bad thing – for if she does love herself, she cannot very well love others. Although the “others” part does not seem to be a problem for her [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] – it’s loving me that seems to be the struggle. Sorry, perhaps unfair! Not feeling self pity, really!!<p>Any suggestions on methods to select a counselor ? – I want one with experience with Sexual Addiction – which is kind of uncommon I believe.<p>Thanks for input! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Peace,
HH

Bumping for replies, HH. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jo

I think a better word for affection is intimacy. Intimacy covers all areas of affection... from a comforting smile to a loving roll in the hay. Un fortunately, over time, after the initial passion and newness of a sweetheart has worn off, a lot of the intimacy goes by the wayside. Either from lack of interest or by taking the other person for granted. We all have our own needs concerning intimacy, unfortunately, when our spouse looses touch or interest in those basic needs, the foundation of the intial love begins to wear away. Maybe it is because we get caught up in the day to day matters of raising a family and making a living. Maybe those little irritating aspects of the other begin to wear thin. For whatever reason, needs do not get met. I believe marriage is a sacred bond between a man, a woman and our Creator. And I know that God wants us to exist in a loving, nurturing oneness. If that is absent, the pain begins. Resentment, anger, questioning why. And then for some of us, at least from my perspective, the most unexpected trial lands in our laps... our life partner betrays us and brings someone else into the picture. Doesn't matter who it hurts, just so his/her needs get met. And sometimes, after all is said and done, the betrayer is remorseful, and the healing is supposed to begin. Forgiveness. I have forgiven him. But my 30+ years of unmet needs continue. He is an imperfect but good person, as am I. Unfortunately his concept of marriage is not the same as mine. So what do I do? My youth has already been spent. I raised our awesome children in his long periods of absence. I pursued a career that he ultimately found threatening. Maybe the affair was payback. I don't know. I have sought couseling, read, prayed, and I am left with this emptiness that I fear will never be filled.
I've never done an internet discussion before, so please bear with me.<p>[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: leslieblatt ]<p>[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: leslieblatt ]</p>

Bump again for HH. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

HH,<p>There are lots of experts who say that feelings follow action. In The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis, she is very helpful in showing how to set goals for what you want from your spouse. She helps you zero in on the specifics and shows you how to describe those in action words. Then, she gives you specific strategies for how to reach those goals.<p>For instance, with "I wish my W were more affectionate", you would need to ask yourself, "What will my W be doing when she is more affectionate?" or "What did it look like when my W was more affectionate?". Then you focus on the specific actions, like "She used to tell me she loved me every night before we went to sleep." So that one specific thing becomes your goal: "W will tell me she loves me before we go to sleep at night."<p>Then, you follow the strategies she describes step by step. The first one is to ask, but at the right time and in the right way (Michele helps with figuring this out). Anyway, you are able to give your spouse a very specific request, which is much easier to accommodate than a vague one that could be interpreted different ways. So, "I'd like it if you were more affectionate." becomes "I would really like it if we said 'I love you' to each other before we go to sleep at night. Will you do that with me?"<p>If a direct request is unsuccessful, she still has a lot more things you can try, and you just progress on to the next one. The book really helps you focus your thinking into more helpful directions.<p>[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Hi HH,
Granted, we are not surviving any affairs, but my H was not the affectionate type when we married and I am the type of wife who craves it daily, and perhaps every time he walks in the room. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Over the years of our extremely young marriage compared to yours (9 years), he has learned how to be more affectionate toward me, and it seems to come from his heart, with spontaneous strokes, that I appreciate so much. He was NOT this way in our early years together. I remember thinking so often that it doesn't seem right that I have to beg for hugs & kisses from my own H! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So yes, I do believe a spouse can learn to change their behavior--if they want to. And, if they really are interested in meeting their spouse's emotional needs.<p>I cannot begin to answer how come your wife has a tough time telling you that she doesn't love you other than she takes you completely for granted. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] She has to know how important this is to you, you have mentioned this a number of times out here on the forums... if we know it, she must know it! The only way we know someone loves us is because they tell us with words!<p>I still sort of believe that you guys have a power struggle going on between you. You married so young and you have been together so long that I think some of the childish games are still playing on. It's almost like she flaunts it that she COULD if she wanted to (meet your EN for affection), but she refuses. To me, that's so cruel. The real question is why and only she could answer that for you... Do you think she is punishing you for something? I would think that, but you said she has always been this way, so, maybe not...<p>I don't know what I would do if I were you, I probably would be in such a terrible state of withdrawal that I would be LBing all over the place. I don't know what I could recommend to you that would change her, all I could tell you is change something about you so that you don't need her so much. Maybe get what you need from the Lord. He is with you in this mess and He has never left your side. She seems to have way too much power over you.

Well, from one Hoosier to another (GO I.U., beat Duke),
I believe it is DEFINITELY possible to learn to be affectionate.
One of my W's chief complaints about me was that I wasn't affectionate. We were married for 12 yrs when we started having serious problems. At that time, I found MB and since then (3 yrs and counting), I have made fulfilling her need for affection one of my major goals. I constantly touch her (in passing, or just sitting next to her), tell her how pretty she is, play with her hair, rub her shoulders, etc...
This is something I NEVER did unless she asked. Now I do it on my own, knowing that it makes her happy. It was never second nature for me to do it, I grew up in quite a non-affectionate house, but I learned to do it. She appreciates that, and I know that I'm doing something to make her happy. I know there is a concept called "fake it to make it" or something like that, where if you do or say something long enough, then you start to internalize the feelings, or put it another way, if you fake it long enough, you'll start to feel that way. And it is so true.