Hi all, it's been a while since I've written something useful. Mostly just bashing another user....I know, I shouldn't but that particular person REALLY grates on my nerves.... Patience, Acceptance, Tolerance, Forgiveness - guess that ought to be my mantra.<p>
Oh well, on to the story of us.<p>Things have been a little better in the last few weeks. W still hasn't committed to anything. She's working through her anger at me about many things in counseling. She had made a list and has classified them in 3 groups - easy to forgive, needing work to forgive, and uh oh. Ironically, several things in the UH OH catagory are things that I did AFTER D-Day.... Hmmm, any guesses?<p>AHHHHH, that I would have found this site a month sooner.<p>We had a talk the other night about her list and all. I mentioned that I didn't quite understand her order of getting through all these issues, AND THEN deciding whether or not to give up OM. I asked her if her IC knew that she's still been in contact with him. IC has told her to "cool it," to which I asked if 30 cell phone calls on the last bill would constitute that. I know she's really having a hard time in that area. She's afraid to give up something that makes her feel good, when her marriage makes her pretty miserable just to think about. She's afraid that if she ends it and we don't work out, she'll have nobody, she'll have given up someone who she thinks could make her happy. She still maintains that she thinks that they could "make a go of it" even though everybody else doesn't think so.<p>That in particular reminds me of some judgements that she and I made regarding her girlfriend who had married a man over 10 years older than her. We couldn't understand how she could have expected it to work with that much distance between their life experiences. But I do realize that we hadn't been in the situation at that time to even be able to approach the subject. If there's nothing else I've learned through all this, it's to withhold judgement untill I've walked the proverbial mile.<p>She DID say that the day is coming (meaning that the A is over). I pointed out that it's terribly unfair to ME, to HER, AND to him to continue it. She agreed and admitted that it's purely selfish.<p>Her IC tells her that IF we decide to make a go of it, we'll have to START OVER. While agree on some levels, as a whole, I think I disagree with that statement. The way I see it, we'll be starting over in the trust area, and in the love area; but as far as understanding ourselves, and each other; what it takes to maintain a relaionship/marriage; what it takes to weather a storm.... I think we'll be WAAAAY ahead of any other couple on the street. Am I wrong in that?<p>W wants me to get back in IC. I really didn't understand what it was that she wanted me to work through. I'm opposed to psychoanalysis, I have too much life to live to relive what happened to me when I was 5. I truly think I have the majority of my crap together - like I never have before. I know that I'm going to have some trust and forgiveness issues when it comes to my W and women in general probably (so don't any of you go ticking me off [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). She did explain a little bit on that, but I've been SO TOTALLY SWAMPED at work the last month, I really haven't been able to do much about it. How do you go about finding an IC that you like? I really have no clue. What questions do you ask them when deciding if you want to go to them? Dunno, guess I'll have to figure that out.<p>I really believe in my heart that we could revitalize our marriage, if only we'd give it a shot. But that's not my decision to make right now. It'd be so much easier to wait if I had some assurance that HE was out of her life forever, but that's not coming any time soon. She's simply unwilling to make the hard (and morally right) choice and JUST DO IT. It's frustrating.<p>I really wish she had a few friends who would stand up for what's right. But it seems most are happy to encourage her to continue down the path to dissolution. One went so far as to quote her a bible verse as justification and blame shifting for her actions. She just made the list [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] . I understand that it's hard to be a stand-up person (crap, I try all the time to be that, and so does W), but can nobody see that's what we need?<p>One thing that keeps coming up, and I need to make perfectly clear to EVERYBODY. I am by no means perfect. I've done some terrible things to hurt my wife by my actions, and inactions. I had an emotional affair, I lied about it for 4 years, I withdrew from our marriage and let her fall out of love with me, I was lazy, TERRIBLY complacent, and demeaning, I drank and drove even though I knew it would hurt her terribly, I told her parents after agreeing not to, I threatened her physically after DD, I beat up her car, I took her parents to HIS house to confront her, I followed them, I begged and pleaded that she not do this to me.<p>Every one of those was a huge mistake, I take full responsibility and make no excuses. I've asked for forgiveness, and have forgiven myself.<p>I pray for you all every day!
Take care,
Kev

Hey Kev,<p>Been wondering how you've been. It notice similarities of WS reactions. The part about you being responsible for what you did is fine. <p>Note: When a WS returns they often still try to put the 'onis' of repairing the M on the BS. What really needs to happen is that the WS needs to transform (work on) themselves so that the WS title and stigmatism changes from WS to spouse. Then the BS can hopefully relinquish the BS title and both go back to being spouses'. <p>How to do that? Well, that list? She made one, then you make one or at least say, you will be making one. Let her wonder what you would put. Don't be so willing to present everything. WhY? Because when you do, they still can excercise relative control over the BS and then know when and how to put the blame on the BS. This hinders recovery and often sends the WS out the door again. <p>That is what I have done. Can't say it will work for everyone but when the WS tries to come back but is still showing signs of angry struggling you can almost bet the BS is going to get the brunt of that anger. Do you want that?<p>L.

Glad to see you around! I'll reply more later, just wanted to say hi! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong><p>Her IC tells her that IF we decide to make a go of it, we'll have to START OVER. While agree on some levels, as a whole, I think I disagree with that statement. The way I see it, we'll be starting over in the trust area, and in the love area; but as far as understanding ourselves, and each other; what it takes to maintain a relaionship/marriage; what it takes to weather a storm.... I think we'll be WAAAAY ahead of any other couple on the street. Am I wrong in that?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No, I don't think so. That is what Bill and I thought too! There is just too much history to act as thought the WHOLE thing were starting over again. You have both learned a lot of valuable info about marraiage and life in general. Yes, the trust area will be brand new for both of you. Most other areas you will have a head start on. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong> How do you go about finding an IC that you like? I really have no clue. What questions do you ask them when deciding if you want to go to them? Dunno, guess I'll have to figure that out.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, first you look at who your providers are. Then you can call and ask questions that come to mind. Some of the ones I asked were, how long had she been practicing, how old was she, what kind of education/experience did she have? Then when I found all the answers I was comfortable with, I went to my first visit with an open mind to see how she wanted to do things. I have been with her for almost two years. Bill loves her too. I feel very comfortable telling her ANYTHING. She is my second counselor, the first one we had we saw for about 6 months and she just wasn't for us. You can tell after a bit and shouldn't feel bad about switching to someone you are comfortable with. Ruth (our counselor) treats us as friends, her office is very warm and inviting, homey. She talks openly about her family and friends and experiences, which makes it easier for us to open up to her. It doesn't feel so analytical this way and she is great!<p>I hope you can find friends that see your JOINT welfare and take that into consideration. Unfortunately, most pepole just don't have the guts to stand up to a friend that they see making mustakes. So, instead they agree with them and "support" them that way.
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Please remind Jill that I am here if she wants to talk. Even if she just wants to ask me all sorts of embarresing questions or somehting! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care Kev, you are in our prayers.