WS and I have been separated for a couple of months now. At first, I did the begging.... stuff.
In a nutshell, I was going through depression, turned into an overweight couch potato. No abuse, just a boring marriage. She moved out without warning. There is no OM of that I am sure. She now has to work three jobs to get by. Ironically, she moved out and told me that she needed a life. Now she is working all the time. At first, she left no address or phone number. After a couple of weeks, we went on an all night date. Went to Manhattan and danced, drank ect. We had a blast. In 10 years of marriage, I went dancing with her once. She let me take her home that night and also gave me her phone number. Since then, we see each other once evry couple of weeks and have dinner, movie ect. I promised no OR talks and told her if I initiated one, she gets $50 for every occurance.
Anyway, I have been doing my own version of Plan A. Since there is no A, I had to midify it a bit. She has become cold and short with me. Always taking the opportunity to point out my shortcomings. I have invited her out for a night in Manhattan a few times since but she has declined.
Now my life has been turned around. I have lost 45 pounds and am back into a very good height weight ratio. I bike 15 miles a day and go out dancing without her every weekend. The thing is, I have made it a point to tell her and show her what I am doing but I can't get around that wall she built.
Lat week I told her that there is a woman at work that is also separated and is trying to get her husband back. I told my WS that since she doesn't want to go out with me, I have invited this woman to go dancing. I made it clear to my WS that I am not dating and do not intend to until she decides what she is going to do regarding our future. However, I told her that I don't like dancing with strangers and I would like to have a female friend to hang out with. She has said nothing to bring up the subject of this woman at all. And everytime I bring it up in conversation, she changes the subject. <p>Honestly, there is nothing going on and there won't be.
My WS knows that tonight is the first night that I am going dancing with this woman so I think that going to a modified version of Plan B is needed for two reasons. The first is that I can't deal with my WS apparant disrespect for me and it will also give her something to think about for a while [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .
Again, I have taken every opportunity to make sure my wife knows of my awakening and the desire to change my life style permanently. I'm thinking that I probably went overboard so dropping off the face of the earth to her for a while will do both of us some good. I believe she may think that I have gone back to my old ways, but after a month, I plan to contact her just to see how she is doing. I'm sure the conversation will turn to what I have been doing and maybe she will finally get teh message that I have changed and it is not just to get her back in my life! Now we talk almost daily so for me to just drop off the face of the earth after my first night out with this female friend may give her something to think about.
Sorry about the length of this, but I guess I had more to say than I thought.<p>Thoughts?? Recommendations??<p>Cyberdude<p>[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: cyberdude ]</p>

I don't think it's a good idea to do it OR to tell your W about it whether you're doing it or not.<p>Here's why:<p>1. You're playing with fire. As Steve Harley says, separation is a state of marriage. Spending time in RC with a female, especially a needy one with M problems while you're in the same state, is an invitation to disaster.<p>2. If your goal is to rebuild with your W, you're putting a gigantic obstacle in the way. It is a huge LB, IMO.<p>3. It sometimes helps to let the walkaway spouse WONDER whether you're seeing someone else or not, be worried about it, etc., but now you've removed all doubt and kind of shoved it in her face. No mystery there at all.<p>4. If my H did this under similar circumstances, I would assume he had no commitment to our R (no matter what he said to the contrary), and I'd take it as a wake-up call to get over him and move on with my life. The very fact of him rubbing my face in it would let me know that, whether he sought a R with the woman or not.<p>So that's my perspective as a female with one foot out of my M.<p>My recommendation is to do damage control at your first opportunity, but I wouldn't do it in a groveling way, just kind of off-handedly refer to it and that you changed your mind, that you realized she wasn't a person you'd like to hang out with.<p>[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Hi,
I agree with Conquerer. I am not a game player, and I never play a game when I am not willing to accept the fact that I might lose. I know that what you are attempting does work for some people; but if you are determined to win your W back, try to be as straight forward as you can be. Games are not worth playing when your hopes for your future are involved.

I'm not playing a game here. Things aren't geting any better, they are getting worse. I have told my wife about it only because I wanted up front honesty. Better to hear it from me than a mutual friend letting it slip. I have done a cut and paste from my post on another forum just to save typing and give you guys a little more perspective.<p>The only time she initiates any conversation is when she needs me to do something or wants something from me. When I call her, the conversations have been one sided with me having to pick subjects. Now when I call, she says all of about 5 sentences; and those are typically attacking any changes or realizations that I have made. Her respect for me has gone down hill in the last month. I am actually getting a bit angry with her obvious lack of respect. I feel like her emotional punching bag at this point. If I knew that being the punching bag will lead us back to recovery, then I would gladly take the punches. But my self-esteem is starting to take a hit. That is why I feel that dropping off the face of the earth is needed. What I have done so far is not apparantly working. So I feel that I need to take time for me to both work on my own issues and devleop some kind of life. I have been straightforward with her and told her that I want to go clubbing and dancing but she doesn't want to. I'm 40 years old and have been in the professional (engineering) working world for over 20 years. One personal policy that I have always had was never date a coworker-period. Never have and never will!! I've had a lot of opportunities when I was single, but I never have. I have always believed that you "never %$#@ (slang for excrement) where you eat" Romantic relationships between co workers is never anything less than a complete disaster. I have seen many many many friends crash and burn professionally because of it. <p>I see no issue with going dancing with a female friend, which I have been friends with for months at work, as long as my WAW is fully aware of my intent to work on our marriage when she is ready; but until then, I do not intend to just hang out with the guys. All the guys I know just want to sit around, drink and whine about their wives. I guess I'm one of those guys that are more in touch with their feminine side. Heck, I spend a couple of thousand dollars a year on Longaberger Baskets and Pampered Chef stuff. I am the flower and plant buyer for the house. I like chick flicks and Lifetime television. I don't think many guys can say that [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . Yet, I am also into sports like football, golfing, canoeing and mountain biking. I would rather be with females than males. I have no desire for sexual fulfillment with anyone other than my wife and I never have since we have been together.
I have been getting involved in other activities that has me finding new friends; but my wife is/was my best friend and I miss the female perspective in my life. I have no intention of it being any more than a friend with this woman and she has no desire for me in that way. It has always been a purely plutonic friendship from the start and she is more like a sister.
That is where my head is at.
I'm appreacitive of your comments, but I just think I needed to clarify my perpective. I may be totally wrong here, that is why I'm asking this question. But I'm at a loss as to what to do. I want to do things that are fun and enjoyable to make me a happier person whether she comes back or not.<p>Cyberdude

Hi,
Definitely DO take care of yourself, and stay busy. Just remember to act as God would want you to act. You know your wife better than anyone else knows her. Use your judgement, don't act when you feel doubt, and hang in there.

Cyberdude,
Doing this will damage what you have
accomplished and cause serious setbacks IMO. I see
some serious things in your post that would have
me seeking answers.
Is there an OM and you don't know? If there is,
that might be why she has become cold and short.
Pointing out your faults could be a comparison to
OM(if one exists). If she isn't asking questions
about another woman and her husband then maybe its
because a)she believes you B)she doesn't care or
c)she doesn't want you asking about her and her
friends. An A may have taken place without anyone
the wiser, and now she feels to guilty about it to
ask about woman fearing she'll be found out.
As far as planB now? No. If,once again, there
is OM, planB would open door for A to flourish,
as WS might believe marriage is over.
If you want around the wall she's built stop
"pointing out and showing her" the changes you've
made. These are supposed to be changes about you,
for you. Yes, hopefully WS takes notice and shows
more interest, but its about you not her, quit
throwing it in her face.

My husband and I were apart for more than a year--nine months of this, I had moved out of our house and back to my home town. My husband is in the military--he was in many different countries during this time, partying and chasing girls.<p>While we were apart, I conformed to a very strict plan B--my husband called frequently (some conversations were rational and constructive, however, most were not) and I did not initiate any contact. My plan B was mostly out of the huge hurt I was dealing with, along with my husband's lack of remorse--it was not your textbook plan B.<p>Unfortunately, (I guess) I met a very very wonderful man who I became close friends with. He was also separated from his wife and in fact was starting divorce proceedings. I spent so much time talking to him, it was a huge priority in my life. We shared so much, and I will always cherish the memories I have of this man. This friendship never crossed the line into romance, but there were deep feelings, very deep feelings I confess on my part, and sometimes a little flirting.<p>Wouldn't you know it, the turn of events lead me back to my husband in time. I went back to my husband only out of desire to do what was right and for the good of my little son. My plan B had cost me my feelings for my husband and had magnified my feelings for the wonderful gentleman.<p>I then understand that my friendship with this wonderful gentleman was no longer appropriate. It hurt so terribly to say good-bye. I was with this that I can understand how people fall in love and have affairs--it is so easy, when someone values you, treats you kindly and meets your emotional needs. It's only human.<p>I really did cry when I told my friend that I could no longer correspond with him. He understood. He was very sad, too. It was a huge effort to leave him behind--very huge. It took many weeks of concentrated effort to fight the impulses to contact him and concentrate on healing my marriage, especially in light of what my husband had done to me and the horrible mess of a relationship that my marriage had become. Every time my husband flipped out or we battled (which was about six hundred times a day) the first thing I wanted to do was call my gentleman friend and lean on him--and feel loved again. Who wouldn't want that?<p>The kicker was--my husband found out about my friend (I, of course, made no effort to hide) and guess what? He was outraged!!!! He called me a "cheating little b*tch" and he called me friend some equally ugly names. His own year-long affair, which had destroyed my life, made no difference. My husband freaked over the fact that I had bonded with someone of the opposite sex during our separation< which he had caused> Total fog.<p>In short--I would be highly cautious of male/female friendships while in plan B. You never know what will happen, you never know where life will take you. Do you really want you marriage? If so, you will concentrate on it and you will not let a friendship get into the way, like I did.<p>While I do not in any way regret my friendship with this gentleman, and I never will, I will testify that it was hard to let go when the day came> Why would you voluntarily put yourself through this? It hurts like hell.<p>Please be wary--your emotions will take you places that you don't intend if you are not careful.<p>Mary

CyberDude~<p>Could your wife be really ANGRY with you because you have lost all of this weight and taken an interest in her interests?<p>I know it sounds silly.....but for how many years did you live in your marriage with her wants, needs and desires in the background? <p>Did she ever talk to you about any of her needs? <p>Maybe she is going through this......"why is he doing it now when I wanted him to do it all of those years ago and he never paid attention. Why am I so important now? Why did it have to come to this to get him to pay attention to me? Why wasn't I important enough then?"<p>I may be totally off the mark, but these are my thoughts.<p>Sorry, this doesn't have alot to do with the topic of your thread.<p>selket

Cyberdude,<p>From my perspective, there does appear to be a fine line... You look at someone like CarolKH's story, which did involve jealousy to a degree, and you look at others who've fallen into the pit and become WS themselves...<p>I seem to recall that CarolKH used a lot of "unspoken" stuff that led naturally to jealousy in her WS... far "safer" than having a real R... check out her story by doing a search...

Points taken. Thanks for the advice. Maybe I should postpone the friendship outside of the office until either my friend is back with her husband or I am back with my wife. Thanks guys.<p>Cyberdude

CD,<p> I don't think you ever make a mistake when you tell the truth and are honest with your spouse. You have the desire to get out and live again. There is nothing wrong with that. Especially if WS only wants you when she needs something.<p> However you are playing with fire by going out with a married woman who has her own family problems. I think you should be very careful here. You would hate to be the cause of more pain for this woman, right? <p> Go out and live, but watch the married women. You do not need that dude.<p> jd

Yes, it is totally perception. Since I was still married and wanted my H back, I did not feel it was appropriate to date. I did go out twice with male friends (in 1 1/2 yrs, LOL), however, they totally knew the score that I wanted my H back, etc. I really wouldn't call them "dates".<p>BUT, my H PERCEIVED that I had gotten on with my life, and actually thought I did have a "friend", and I of course did not vehemently deny this, altho I never told him so...it was all in his head actually. I just let him believe what he wanted. Some may call it manipulation, but I got my H back, didn't I? It triggered his territorial instincts.<p>BTW, it has now been over a year since H woke up, and he will have been back home a year in June. We are doing wonderfully. He treats me so great now--looks like after 21 1/2 yrs we have finally got it right! I continue to do my part as well and try to make him feel loved and appreciated and all the things I didn't do before. My parent's are incredulous, but thankful, that things are so good for us...it worried them a great deal.<p>Carol
PS. I don't get here much anymore, but just popped in because I wanted to copy my original posts off to post over on the divorce busting forum, where I actually hung out mostly. I used a lot of the DB techniques, which are a cross between Plan A and B I guess.<p>PPS. To all of you, there is hope. My H wanted a divorce when he left and HATED me. Now he continually tells me how much he loves me!

You are still married. Being seen dancing with another woman makes it look like not only do you not want marriage, but you want somebody else. Don't go there. If I were your wife, it would definitely be a major trust breaker for me. Separation is not divorced, you are still married.

Cyberdude:<p>I came in late, and it seems like you've been getting (and listening to) good advice so far!<p>But I have to say that your comment:
"Lat week I told her that there is a woman at work that is also separated and is trying to get her husband back."
is just plain stupid. This friend can't rebuild her M with you as a distraction, no matter how innocent you two might think it is NOW. <p>It also sounds like you and your W are very angry with each other. Do you want your M? Maybe you should consider DV and stop putting each other through this misery. On the other hand, even if you DV, you two should probably get into counselling, both together and individually, so that you can understand what went wrong in your R so that you don't repeat the same things if you have new Rs down the line. <p>Think about it.