Really need an answer on this.<p>Do you fill the void and start building these love bank points or do you say no sex while with OW. <p>My H is constantly trying things with me since we had sex last Thursday. BUT, I know he is still having sex with her.<p>What do I do?

I'd say no to having the cake and eating it too.<p>Can you be firm in your reslove? If so, I would say no with assertiveness. If you need help, do a google search on assertive communication.<p>I have to tell you, if I was in your husband's shoes and I could have sex with two woman at the same time, I would not likely enjoy my fence sitting for as long as possible (not that I would ever do as your husband is doing).<p>if you ever hope to win him back, he has to respect you. I can't say, as a man, that I would have too much respect for myself if I continued to have sex with my wife while she did the same with the OM. I would feel like such a doormat.

You cannot build Love Bank Deposits by having sex. Not with the WS you can't. I wish it were so but it is not. <p> My WS and I had sex throughout all of this. She would go be with the OM, then come home to me for fullfillment. YUCK and YUCK. I did not know that at the time of course. After D-Day I hoped sex would do just what you hope. <p> Trust me it won't. It is the excitement they are hooked on I believe.<p> jd<p>[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

My H gave me an STD, but that was at the beginning of the A several months before D-day, before I even suspected an A, because as soon as I suspected an A, I stopped having sex with him.<p>After D-day, I was not able to determine whether sex with OW continued or not, though he denied it. We discovered the STD when I required testing after D-day before I would consent to unprotected genital or oral sex with him.<p>After we completed the treatment for the STD, I chose to start having unprotected sex with him despite my uncertainty about continued contact with the OW. I considered this a risky choice, but took these factors into consideration:<p>With my H's #1 EN being SF, I figured if I refused to meet that need and he WASN'T having sex with OW, then he might start having sex with her again.<p>The only time he wasn't with me was when he was at work, so if they WERE having sex it had to be at the workplace which, while not impossible, I thought was improbable.<p>We were having "outercourse"-type safe sex on a daily basis from D-day on, and with his age I thought it unlikely that he could maintain that pace if he was doing it elsewhere as well.<p>I think the discovery of the STD helped to burst his bubble about the OW (prior to the test results he kept insisting he KNEW he was "clean") and might have scared him enough to not risk doing that to me again. I intensely drove home how he had endangered my and my nursing baby's lives with his behavior.<p>After several months of celibacy, I wanted to have sex just because *I* wanted it.<p>And I didn't think I could do a satisfactory Plan A without meeting that need for him since it is the most important and I hadn't been meeting it for several months.<p>Now, if I had known for sure that he was still having sex with the OW, I might have made a different decision. It was a calculated gamble, and it paid off with my H saying he was "in love" with me within a month of D-day. But the lack of absolute certainty was still agonizing.<p>If you are absolutely sure that he is having sex with the OW, you could make this offer to him: I will be happy to meet your need for SF as soon as you are able to prove to me that I would be your only partner. Then the ball's in his court, and you've at least expressed your willingness to meet that need.<p>If you're emotionally up to it and feel safe enough using condoms, you could try having sex that way because the more needs you meet, the less he'll need OW to meet them. If he is not aware you know about his continuing sex with OW, then the respect issue is more an internal struggle for you than losing integrity in his eyes.<p>I was fortunate that I had confidence that OW couldn't hold a candle to me in the sexual department, so that plus my feeling that this was something *I* was entitled to and had been robbed of helped me to not feel used, demeaned, or taken advantage of.<p>Just read JD's post and I don't think it's that cut and dried. I think it depends on the individual. While it had no effect on his WS, it had great effect on my WS, and in my case, I think if I had put forth a Plan A effort DURING the A, the A would have come to a quick end. It probably depends on how high SF is on the WS's EN list.<p>[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

You're letting him have the best of both worlds. (I'm male.) He needs to figure which world to live in.<p>Second, unless he had protected sex with her - I would consider him to be a health risk for STD. If you continue to let him have the best of both worlds, MAKE him use protection when with you. Without protection you could end up with a variety of goodies: herpes, HIV, veneral warts, etc.<p>I'm the BS, and since my W had unprotected sex, I now have the honor and pleasure of asking my Dr for an HIV test annually (clear for 3 years) when the office knows I'm married. I would not have unprotected sex with my WF until a "quarantine" period past. Paranoid? Yeah. Alive? Yes.

H&S thank you for asking this as I am struggling with just this issue. Like Conqueror, it is my WS No1 EN. I thought that plan A was about meeting EN's when safe to do so?

I was having sex with WH when he was living with OW and when he came home to work on marriage. I come to find out my WH was having sex with OW and me, the BS continually for 4 years without a break. I wish I decided at least when he was living with her not to engage in the activity. BTW I have not even seen my WH/STBX for over 4 months now.<p>I asked him how could he take the risk of bringing something home to me like AIDS or whatever and he said that he used a condom with her, but condoms don't always work you know! We did not use a condom here at home so now I go for yearly tests as well.

I know for sure they are still having sex and I told him on the weekend, there is no more sleep overs for having breakfast on Saturday morning with our son either (breakfast at 7:30) because it's too tempting.<p>Until she is completely gone - no sex with me. I've got to come out of this with some dignity. I was weak last week, but today I'm strong.<p>the beauty of last week though, is at least once a day he refers back to last thursday (must have been good - LOL). at least now he knows what he's missing.<p>He also thinks I'm out and about and keeps asking "what's his name". there is no name. I just don't answer the phone. Unlike him, I just can't jump into bed with someone else so fast.<p>Anyways, that's it.<p>what's Plan C. I don't remember that one?

I too am glad you posted this because my situation regarding SF is somewhat unique (I know, I know, we all think our story is unique - but listen - MINE REALLY IS!!) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am Plan A'ing my XH, we divorced in Jan and there were no affairs that led to the divorce just a whole lot of trust and communication issues over a period of years. I still wanted to work on things, he felt too much had happened to cause him to lose complete trust in me and that we had never really had a "marriage" because I had built walls of protection around my heart for so long.
Since the D, he has had a couple of dates with other women - I have not. He has also been calling me daily, initiating deep relationship discussions, having dinner with me and with me and the kids (3). We have shared custody, so we basically interact several times a day. All has been friendly and HONEST. We have also been having sex since about 10 days after the D was final. Last time was this a.m. after I dropped the kids off for carpool in the old neighborhood (he stayed in the house and I moved to an apt about 5 minutes away).
The main reasons I am still having SF with him are these:
- I still love him deeply and believe our relationship can be restored
- I want to meet his ENs (SF would definately be at the top)
- I want him to see me as the person I really am and believe that the changes he notices are real and lasting
- I want him to recognize that the best solution is to restore our family of five and that bond of SF is a bridge to build on
- I love having making love with him and for some reason have been more attracted to him over these past 2 months than since we first met
- He is an attractive, successful, "good catch" and I don't want some other woman WHO IS NOT THE MOTHER of my children to attempt to worm her way into my place in the family<p>I know that last one is weak and is motivated by fear. I also know that the only way for us to successfully get back together is for him to desire to reconcile regardless of whatever other options are out there. And I know the only one I can control is me. But, it is still the truth. If he is having great, earth-moving sf with me he is less likely to think the grass is greener elsewhere.<p>However, if I thought (or knew) he was having sex with someone else, I don't think I could do it - it would hurt too much. Right now, it doesn't hurt. It actually feels really really good (and I don't just mean physically). I think we are on our way to restoration and it is starting with SF. Many other reconciliations start somewhere else and eventually lead to SF. See, I told you it was unique!

I am bumping this to see if there is any other input about this issue of sex with the estranged spouse - whether seperated or actually divorced as in my case.
I seem to be a thread killer lately. Any thread I post on becomes the death knell for that thread...

Wiffle,<p> Nah, you just came in a little late. Keep posting Wiff.<p> jd

One of the other MB'ers had it on the profile. Plan C - moving on.

Plan C is used by many to mean Plan B with contact (usually because there are children of the marriage and the W and H deal with each other directly instead of through an intermediary on child related issues).<p>It is not in Harley's articles or books. The first time I saw a reference to "Plan C" was on In Recovery. One long time MBer Tom, the BS, decided to move out to a camp ground for a while, so he called it Plan C (for camping). At about the same time, I asked my H, the WS, to leave our house and move up to our cottage, so I called it Plan C (for cottage). Both Tom and I replied to one another's threads, using Plan C as shorthand for our respective modified Plan B. Others were using "Plan C" in a similar fashion. So, that is what Plan C means in my signature lines.<p>If there is someplace on MB that defines Plan C, please point me to it. I and others certainly would not want to be confusing people.<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: OneDay ]</p>

Opinion of Michele Weiner-Davis at WWW.Divorcebusting.com<p>Many times people wonder whether or not to have sex with their estranged spouses. Here's my response:<p>As I always say in my seminars, there are no single, one-size-fits-all solutions to any situation, this situation included. However, I do have some thoughts about the issue of having sex with your spouse when separated either physically or emotionally and/or if there is another person in the picture. <p>For starters, if you do decide to be physical, it's essential to use caution and be smart about protecting yourself from sexually transmitted diseases.<p>Having said that, let's explore the emotional side of things. If your spouse is interested in being sexual but shows ambivalence about or even disinterest in your marriage, it makes sense that you might feel uncertain about being close physically. You might worry about feeling used or cheapened in some way. IF this is an overriding feeling, don't do it. However, I look at it another way.<p>Sexuality is a special way that people connect with each other. Although some people have sex simply to experience a pleasant physical sensation, that is rarely all that happens. Having sex leads to having emotions. If someone is doubting his or her commitment to a marriage, experiencing feelings of connection during lovemaking is a good thing and it might increase the chances that the confused spouse will feel inclined to work on the marriage. Obviously, it doesn't always work this way and as with everything else, the proof is in the pudding. But if you're willing/wanting to be intimate, it makes sense to me to do so and then watch the results. See how your spouse reacts and how you feel about it after the fact. <p>I know many couples whose physical relationship saved the day. Even when they couldn't talk, constantly fought, their lovemaking was the lifeline between them. Eventually, because their physical connection reminded them that beneath their problems, there was still a lot of love, they were able to work things out. I say, "stack the deck in your favor, if you can."<p>But not everyone feels comfortable with this solution, and that's okay. You have to feel in your heart that you are doing the right thing. If it feels wrong to you, don't do it. If it feels okay, comfortable or even exciting, give yourself permission to enjoy it. <p>One word of caution. If you've been intimate with your commitment-phobic spouse for a long time and nothing improves, it's time to rethink your actions. Your relationship may have become too comfortable. Perhaps s/he is taking things for granted. Time to consider a change.

I had read that commentary from Michele on the divorcebusting site and I guess I am taking it to heart with regard to my own situation. I do feel that our physical connection can become a foundation for the rebuilding of our relationship.<p>I have been advised that this is dangerous by a couple of older MBer's who got burned continuing sexual relationships with their estranged (and divorced) spouses. But, each person is the best judge of their own set of circumstances.<p>Thanks for the post from Michele's site - I think it is helpful for many facing this issue.