HandA, Please let us know how you're doing.

Hi Want It Back-<p>Thank you so much for your concern. It really means a lot.<p>Unfortunately, it wasn't the news I was hoping for. What he said he realized was the things that made us move apart. The depression I had after the birth of my S and we were having a lot of trouble with our D, who was later diagnosed with ADHD, sensory problems and some other behavior problems. I was on anti-depressants that absolutely killed my sexual desire (I didn't know it did that until after I stopped taking is several years later). In addition, I had a problem with overspending (which I have since completely gotten over). He also said I wasn't attentive to his needs, however, he never complained about that before. He doesn't feel we had intimacy in our relationship!!?? He also said I smothered him. He said these are things he is resentful of me about. I just listened and agreed with what he said. I told him that through all of this I have realized the part I played in our marriage problems and wished I could take it back, but I can't. All I can do is learn from these problems and move forward. I told him that I have become an entirely different person now and realize that I never experienced life like I should have. I told him that I have discovered I am a strong person and am very confident in myself. I like who I am and don't ever want to be the person I used to be. I told him I would really like the opportunity to share the new me with him and hope that he gives me that opportunity. He said he really is glad to see me so happy. He said he isn't going to make any promises and he still needs time. He is concerned about the lack of trust I will have in him and his feelings of guilt. I told him I know it will take work, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to get there. He really didn't sound too reassuring though. Oh, he also said he thinks he misses the daily routine of being home, not me! Oh, something else he mentioned. For several months after finding out about the A, I was extremely depressed. It didn't help that I found out he was continuing to lie to me about the status of his R with the OW (he was telling me it was over when, in fact, it was at this point becoming physical). I cried all the time, begged, pleaded, etc. A couple times after he said some very hurtful things to me (like implying I would have to be better than her to have him love me again and I didn't have the qualities he's looking for now) I had too much to drink and thought I didn't want to live with how much pain I was in. I didn't do anything drastic, but, unfortunately, told him how I felt. He said he thinks that was a form of manipulation and he's not sure he would want to be in a R if I subconsiously manipulated him to get my way. I told him I spoke to my therapist regarding all of this and she said that people do desparate things in desparate times. I was being hurt so much by the person who had promised to love and care for me. I actually don't know how he could even think the pain I was in was a form of manipulation. Maybe it is his way of trying to remove some of the guilt he is feeling. Yes, I could have handled things better then, but I was in so much pain I wasn't even thinking logically at that point.<p>He did invite me out to dinner with he and the kids. I thought about refusing, but decided to go. It was actually kind of uncomfortable. I didn't let him see I felt that way, though.<p>After talking to my friend last night, she thinks he is still trying to have his cake and eat it too. His apartment is not comfortable so he comes home to hang out. On his weekends with the kids, he says they get bored and he brings them home and stays. The kids end up going to their rooms or entertaining themselves, so that makes it easier for him. I didn't answer the phone this morning when he called at 7 a.m. (I have so much to do anyway with getting ready for work, walking the dogs and getting the kids off to school). This weekend (my weekend with the kids), I know he'll try to come and visit, but I think I'm just going to try and nicely tell him we have plans. I want him to see what life will really be like if he chooses to divorce when he won't be able to just pop by when he likes. I want him to see this before it's too late.<p>Well, thanks again for your thoughts. Do you have any advice or suggestions on other things I could do to make the situation better? It is nice to have advice from someone from the other side to help me understand it better.<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: hurtandafraid ]</p>

If you're thinking that he wants his cake and eat it too then I think what you have planned is great. You can make it not so easy for him to have both, but do it in a "nice" way. Having plans so he can't spend the weekend is great. Also not answering the phone everytime he calls is also good. These are things you can do without them being a LB and he won't be getting the things he misses. He also needs to realize the responsibility of taking care of the kids on his own when it's his weekend. These things may make him uncomfortable enough to rethink what it is he is doing. After all, that's the way things would be if you divorced and he's just not getting a taste of that yet.

hurtandafraid,<p>Hang in there. There is hope. It took me several weeks to break contact with the OW. Even then I missed her terribly, but the fantasy does fade. Stopping the LB's is exactly right. His moving out will give rise for him to reflect on his actions and, hopefully, he will come to his senses. He knows he has hurt you terribly but probably hasn't dealt with that yet. It gives me comfort to know how much my wife did to save our marriage. <p>b

Thanks WantItBack and b-<p>I really do think he wanted to come back when he called Monday morning, but got wrapped up with the OW again (he sees her every day at work). It is just like a vicious cycle. I've had times (before he moved out) when he has broken down and told me how much he screwed up and that I was the love of his life and an angel for being able to forgive him, etc. Two days later, he's seeing her again. I guess the only thing I can do is hope it runs it's course. I have to admit, though, that I'm not feeling so desparate about having him back. I hope that isn't a sign that I don't want him back, but just my own protection from being hurt again.<p>Last night a guy from work called the house asking for him. I told him that he didn't live there anymore, that he had moved out and the guy was speechless (didn't know what to say I guess). Apparently, my H hasn't told anyone at work (except of course the OW and his boss, who is his friend). He's probably afraid if he tells everyone, they will figure out about the A.<p>He did call twice this morning. The first time I was in the shower and the second time I had to answer it because my son was standing there and would have wondered why I didn't answer it. He said he just wanted to know if he needed to pick up our son anywhere tonight. He has never needed to pick him up anywhere on a Thurs. night, so I think this was just some excuse. I haven't talked to him since Tues night. He called last night, but I was at the gym so he only spoke to my son.<p>This really is difficult. I keep trying to figure out what everything he does or says means. I know I shouldn't do that because even he probably doesn't know what he means, but I just keep hoping he'll come to me one day and say he realizes he still loves me and can't live without me. I don't know if that will ever happen. I just cannot believe or accept that our marriage is over. This all seems like some big nightmare and I am just waiting to wake up.<p>Thanks for your help.

h&a, Who knows why he didn't tell his coworkers. A guess it might be that he doesn't want to complicate the workplace anymore than it already is. He may be keeping the A secret from coworkers because he is ashamed of his actions or maybe his employers frown on interoffice affairs. If my employers had found out I would certainly have lost my job and benefits. That fact alone helped clear the fog some. But h&a, the fog really lifted for me when I discovered the reason that I had difficulty with my marital relationship. The short version is that I avoided all conflict mistakenly believing that I could suffer internally and not let anything bother me. Nothing was further from the truth - but I was blind to it. It served me well at work and in other relationships because I was seen as a rock, nothing ever bothered me. The truth was that each time I denied my feelings I became more deadened emotionally. When I did have the inevitable angry outburst my wife, who I loved, suffered. It was not until I learned about that LB and how it affected my W and me that the fog began to lift. I'm not sure if your H has the same problem, but I tell you this to offer you hope because it is there even for you. If your husband is like I was, he is confused and probably wondering how this ever happened. Stay the course. If your husband does come around he will love you all the more for what you are doing. If I remember correctly, your H is close to the magic six-month mark where afairs die a natural death. My EA lasted four months and thirteen days and PA an additional three months. Keep trying, you are doing the right things.

Oh yes, I would continue to keep working at the relationship. Wondering why I did the things I did forced me to look honestly at myself. My wife helped me do that. At the time I hated it. I had no use for pyschologists or couselors. If I am never asked "How does that make you feel?" again that would be fine with me. But I made, what was for me, an amazing discovery in a book that a local Christian counselor gave to me to read. I remember the passage described my emotional state to a tee with the phraseology "emotional dial tone." That discovery led me to understand why I was so distant from my wife. <p>Dr Harley's honesty about counselors in general strikes a chord with me. I can tell you that his techniques work for men and that may be why they are so successful. My wife kept telling me she wanted me to "walk the walk" as well as "talk the the talk." I had no idea what she was talking about until we enrolled in an wight week HNHN seminar offered through Family Dynamics. When your husband wants to come back, he may think that things will just go back to normal. But I can promise you they will never be the same for me. They will be better because we found a way to make them so. You may want to consider attending the same seminar near you and attend it with your H when he decides to return. I hope that day is soon.<p>I will try to add a link to Family Dynamics. The seminar uses Dr. Harley's material. <p>[URL=http://familydynamics.org/][/URL]

Thanks b for the information. Unfortunately there are no seminars in my area, but I did buy the HNHN book. <p>You are right that we are about at the 6 month mark, but I think it will take a little longer than 6 months. I am learning patience and know that it's going to take a lot of it to get through this. I am actually hoping this weekend will be difficult for him. He had the kids last night and now he won't see them again until next Tues. That will be the longest he has gone without seeing them. He mentioned stopping by over the weekend to drop something off to me, but I told him we would be out most of time. I want him to actually experience what it will be like if he chooses to D me. Unfortunately for him, it will mean not dropping by when he wants and going days at a time without seeing the kids. That is not me trying to punish him, but the result of his choices. I want what is best for my children, but I didn't ask to be placed in this position. I am more than willing to take responsibility for my part of our marriage problems and do whatever work is necessary to correct them and make things better. Unfortunately, I never even had a clue we had marriage problems. Up until the day I found out about the A, I thought I had the best marriage around! My H never told me he was unhappy. Even over the summer I asked him if he had it to do over, would he marry me again and he said absolutely! I have wonderful cards he gave to me that were so sweet and loving. <p>I just hope I am doing the right things. I know that I feel better about myself and never dreamed I could feel this strong. I am taking the time to work on me and I know that no matter what the outcome, I'll be okay. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to give you an update. I did what I had planned and stayed busy with the kids this weekend so my H couldn't come hang out. I took my S to the zoo on Sunday and he called on my cell phone. He asked where I was and when I told him, seemed surprised. He said he had wanted to stop by and see everyone. He sounded bummed out and I asked him if he was okay. He said he just needed to work through some things on his own. I said okay, I'll talk to you later and hung up. Well, last night he called and asked me where I stood with respect to our R. I asked what he meant by that and he asked if I thought we were salvageable. I told him I thought so, why. He said he would like to work on our M. He had done a lot of thinking and talked to his brother and would really like to work on us. I tried to stay kind of cool and said I would like that, but I wanted to take it slow. He came over later to talk some more. When he got there I asked him if he made this decision because he loved me (since he had previously told me he wasn't in love with me any more). He told me he was and thinks he had just suppressed it because of his confusion. He was very affectionate the rest of the night and kept telling me he loved me and was sorry for all he has put me through. I told him he didn't have to apologize any more and that I don't want to think about the past, just the future. He agreed. He is still in his apartment, but called me this morning to tell me he loved me. He is telling the OW today it is over and he is working on his M. He is nervous because he knows she isn't going to take it easy (matter of fact he said she will be pissed). He said he is getting a new job too because he can't stay there now. I am really happy, but at the same time REALLY scared. He has done this before (not since he moved out, though) and the OW lured him back in. I told him my fears and he said he completely understood, but said he will never hurt me again and will not change his mind. I have to believe him in order to move forward. I guess I'll have to work on my fears one day at a time. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

HandA,
It sounds very promising!!! It's so great that you have been able to hold yourself together the way you have. I'm sure your H has noticed it too. I will keep my fingers double crossed so keep us updated. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear hurt and afraid,<p>I have read your posts and wanted to tell you that I am praying for you and your husband. That is great news that he wants to work on your marriage! I'm not good at advice, but I am praying for all of our spouses. When God works, the results are permanent!!!

Hi, thank you for your responses. <p>My H just called to tell me he mentioned to OW that he doesn't want to see her anymore and that he is putting his marriage back together. I guess she got upset and left work early, but wanted to talk to him when he got done work. He told me he wanted to keep me informed. I asked him if he thought she would try to lure him back and he said most likely, but it's not going to happen and I have nothing to worry about. He said he would come over when he was done. Well, needless to say, I am pretty worried, but I am trying to continue being strong as I have been because I have come a long way and don't want to go back to that person I was. I know this is something he needs to do to end this and start on us again. He seems sincere in his desire to do that too and I have to believe him or we will get nowhere. He told his boss, who is also his friend, and he said he was glad he is doing this. So my H has the support of his friend and his brother that he is doing the right thing. I think that will mean a lot in him staying on course. <p>Hey b and WantItBack - do you have any advice on things I should do during this process of recovery? My H started apologizing last night for all the hurt he has put me through and I told him thank you, but he need not apologize over and over. I am not dwelling on the past 6 months and only want to look to our future now. I told him I am thinking of this entire experience as a positive one because I have become a much better, much stronger person than I ever dreamed I could be and I am able to be happy myself and not depend on him to make me happy which was a big issue before. There are a lot of positives that have come out of this. I just don't want him to continue to feel guilty. I know he is sorry and I appreciate that, but it is time to move forward now and start building our new relationship.

H&A,
I know with me that I had a hard time forgiving myself and I'm not sure I've even done that yet. He won't be able to forgive himself until he knows for sure that you have forgiven him and even then, as in my case, it's not an easy thing to do. He probably is also looking for reassurance that you are going to be able to get past the terrible things he's done. When you come out of the fog you start to realize just how terrible those things were and can't believe anyone would forgive you for doing them. <p>He certainly sounds as if he's coming around. Let him apologize if he needs to and just keep reassuring him as you have been. I know from reading Surviving an Affair that some WSs don't show any remorse for quite a while, so I think it's good that he's been able to show he is sorry.

H&A,<p>I just wanted to move on after I gave up the OW. Thankfully, my W realized that we needed more - we needed to do something to ensure that it would not happen again. More importantly, we both wanted to be "in-love" again. Unfortunately, we did not know how to overcome our distance, much less how to fall in love.<p>I think the futute will hold if he really does want to leave OW and come back to you. I honestly think the hard part will be what's next. You have to be sure that you have worked out how to be in love and stay in love. The info Harley publishes is great, but it required my W & I going through one the HNHN seminars to get us on the right track. <p>Just some thoughts from my perspective,<p>I'm praying for you,<p>b

Thanks WantItBack and b for your thoughts. I do know that we are still not out of the woods yet and have a long road ahead, but I have come this far and will not stop now. My H told the OW last night. She spent 4 hours begging and pleading with him to change his mind, but he didn't. He said she told him she would leave him alone, but he has his doubts. I asked how he would handle that and he said he is NOT going back to that. His brother called to check on him on too and told my H to stay away from her because he thinks she had a hidden agenda and wasn't what she seemed to be. I think my H seemed to think he may be right. He was exhausted last night and ended up taking a nap so there wasn't much talk. But that's okay, we have time and I know how difficult it was for him. I won't ask him any more questions about the A or the OW. I want that put in the past. I don't want him to feel guilty (although I am sure he is feeling enough on his own) and I told him I am fine and a lot of positives have come out of this. I have already forgiven him. Yes I am still scared, because he's been lured back by her before, but I just am trying to take it one day at a time. I am not telling him of my fears (I am sure he already knows). <p>Thank you again for your insights.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I'll have to tell you I am really nervous. My H called this afternoon and he is really having a difficult time. I know this is a normal thing once an A has ended, but it scares the heck out of me. He said it is so hard and he's so confused about why he feels the way he does. He said when he thinks about the unknown of a new life and being with us, he wants to be with us. He asked me if I thought that meant he loved me and I said I think so because if he didn't love me, he wouldn't want to be with me. What scares me is the times he broke it off with the OW before and he got depressed and went back. I just cannot let that happen again. I have come so far and I don't want to get hurt yet again. I am afraid that if he was to do that I would have to tell him I can't do it any more, that I was willing to forgive him, but I won't allow him to put me through any more. Should I tell him now that this is what I would do so he is aware of the consequences? I mean, I have forgiven him several times now, I don't want him to think I will do this forever. <p>Thanks for any help you can offer.

H&A,<p>Sorry, I was not on last night and did not see your post until this A.M. How are you doing?? I think what your H is going through is very normal and yes it does mean he still loves you. When he breaks it off with the OW he feels much discomfort because she is an addiction. When he gets back together with her he doesn't feel right either because he still loves you. So it is a very confusing place to be for him.I think even he is able to realize that he must still love you or he wouldn't have these back and forth feelings. Now, how long can you put up with this? That is something only you can answer. My H put up with it for 3 years. I sometimes wonder if he had given up and told me he had enough and to go with OM and have a nice life if I would have come around sooner. I think I would have but I will never know.<p>Please post to update us as I know at this point things change so very quickly from one thing to another. Stay strong.

Thanks WantItBack - He actually came to the house early last night (I guess he left work early). He was still depressed. I gave him a hug and went downstairs to lay down. I just shut the door to give him some time alone and he took a nap. Later we went to our S's play at school. Unfortunately, I had previously invited my parents. They didn't say one word to him. I whispered to my mother that she better be nice and she, as is normal for her, said she wasn't doing anything. My poor H felt so uncomfortable. We went home and he played his guitar. I told him how much I missed hearing him play because I love to listen to him. He was kind of down on himself saying he doesn't play well, etc. I just kept telling him he does and I love to hear it. I just kept laughing and having fun and eventually he came around and started having fun too. He talked a lot about many different things. <p>Actually he just called me. He's making a doctor's appointment because he is having too hard of a time. He said he is swinging all over the place and is ready to lose it. He thinks maybe he shouldn't come back home just yet until he straightens himself out. Wow this is really making me nervous. The OW called in sick again today. He said he feels like he wants to come home, but is afraid because of the way he is feeling right now. I tried to explain that from what I have read, this is a normal reaction. I tried to tell him that I sort of understand what he is feeling because I went through similar feelings when this all started and I told him it does get better, but just takes some time. I am so worried about him too. He said he has messed up so many lives (I think he is feeling bad about what the OW is going through). The problem now is that if he goes back to her, he's hurting our kids now. They are so happy that we are working things out and have seen him hugging and kissing me. If my H backs out, it will crush the kids. Boy, this is harder than when he moved out. As hard as I tried not to, I have my hopes up now and I just can't be let down again. I am trying to be patient, though.

H&A,
Definately do let him know that his "withdrawl" symptoms are normal and they WILL go away. Right now if he can keep away from the OW it would help him so much to get over it quicker. Has he seen this site or read any of the material? It might help him to know that he is not the only person in the world who is, has or will go through this type of thing. In the mean time it sounds like you are doing the right things. No LBs and a shoulder to lean on if he needs it.

I am really having trouble with his symptoms of withdrawal. I am SO afraid he'll give in and go back to her. He went to the doctor today and got an anti-depressant. He has an appt with his therapist tomorrow morning. I am sort of afraid of that because the last appt he had was when he was deciding on whether to leave. One minute he wanted to leave, then he decided he would stay, then after his appt he decided he was leaving again. My therapist is his therapist's wife and she said he took a lot of what the therapist said out of context to make it suit what he wanted to hear. I hope he listens more carefully this time. He has been here at the house since about 4 today. Kind of just laying around. I am leaving him alone, but it is hard because I feel like the OW is in my face again. When he was away, I could kind of forget about her, but now I see his mood which is a direct result of "her" and it is there again. It's kind of bringing me down. I guess I should be happy he is here. At least he isn't trying to contact her which is a good thing. It's kind of hard today to be upbeat. I'm tired, had a rough day at work, have PMS and am worried. It kind of makes me mad because this weekend I was really feeling wonderful and okay with being separated. Now I'm back where I was (not like I was, but scared of the future like before). <p>Thanks for all your kind words. It really helps more than you know. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]