My H had an A for approx. 6months he told me on 10-12-01 and then found out on 11-29-01 still talking to her but since that it has been totally overwith.. he is angry that I do not trust him, have become a snoop, an emotional mess - need to know where he is at all times... So now basically- he cannot deal with me.. he has told me he has not been happy for 10 years - way out of left field - doesn't know if he wants to stay married has come and gone at least four times in the last week 1/2 - now has been gone since last Friday - told the kids we were having problems and he was going to move out for 2 weeks... Not sure if he wants a divorce - says he doesn't love me anymore etc... I asked him to stop drinking because he had been doing that everyday because he said it was easier to walk through the door and deal with me.. and i asked him to go to counseling.. He made an appointment with a counselor and hasn't drank since he left.. But why because he screwed up my life, he had a girlfriend and he left is it all my fault??? I have been emotional wreck but today somehow feel stronger... He is suppose to tell me next Friday if he wants a divorce - Is he your typical WS or just a man who has lost his mind??? We have been together for 19 years , married 15 in August - 2 daughters 12 and 9 ??? any advice would be welcomed...

Wow....where do i begin. <p>My situation is similar to yours in that I have become the same person you have. Untrusting, snooping around etc...Both wife and I have been to see a MC and are working on re-connecting. <p>One of the things that helped me was reading the books "relationship rescue" by Dr. Phil McGraw and Dr. Harley book "Surviving an Affair".<p>The problem your having is that every time you ask him a question as to where he is or who he is talking to it is a form of rejection. If he really did stop then your just going to frustrate him. You are contstantly apreading negative vibes and he does not want to deal with it, so he runs. <p>What you have to do is work on yourself. You are not going to change his actions. you have to find out why you are doing what you are doing and then stop doing it. The Dr. Phil book is an excellent resource for this. It focuses on you and what you have brought to this relationship. It will allow you to understand and take responsibility for your actions. You can only control yourself and you have to start to identify what is wrong and address it within yourself. <p>I know it sounds like its your fault but its not totally your fault. It is 50% your fault. And you can only control and change your 50%. <p>hope that helps
Good Luck.....

Hi maw64,<p>My husband had an affair that began nearly three years ago, and I all too well remember the deep emotional pain you are experiencing.<p>First of all, what do YOU want? Do you want to save your marriage? If so, accept that what you have been doing is pushing him even further away. If you have not done so, read Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley. The best first step in getting your marriage back on track is to read all about and understand Plan A, then make a serious committment to doing it the best you can. Go to the counselor together, and ask your husband to agree to continue the counseling.<p>I hope that you are right in that the affair is not continuing, but it will still take some time for reality to set back in with your husband and for that fantasy life to completely end. It will be a difficult time for both of you, and it will require a strength that you won't believe you have, but you do. Nobody here will tell you that surviving this will be easy, but it is absolutely possible. I'm living proof of that!<p>Good luck,<p>Peppermint

Why - thank you very much both for your replys- yes I want my marriage to work but I cannot make him love me... Just a Husband you are correct when you say that I frustrate him it is like he wants everything to just go away and go back to normal but if we go back to normal there obviously was a problem or he wouldn't have had an affair to begin with...I have been in counseling for weeks. he goes next week and hopefully we will end up together.. Sometimes I just feel like he left so he could scare me into forgetting about everything and going back to normal - whatever the heck normal is.. Any input is appreciated -- I have read torn assunder... not the one you guys suggested.... I will look into it...

maw64 -<p>I think we could be soul sisters - My H is doing the almost same thing! I also have become this person that is sneaky, clinging, basketcase of a woman that I really dont like. My H gets angry at me for doing things for him or wanting to be with him. Him having an A was like a wake up call to me, I realized that yes we had some problems and yes I had let the little things that I use to do for him go but when it came right down to it - I love this man and want to make my Marriage work not just for me but for him and the children also. My counslor has been working on getting me to see that Him having a OW is not my fault and just because he got caught (i called her H)has nothing to do with me. There are many days when I think my H has just lost his mind and has no idea what the heck he's doing.<p>The best advice I've come across so far is to just take everything one day at a time. I'm Plan A'ing my butt off right now and hoping that someday soon I will remember what normal felt like. Good luck

rdvpmm - thanks for the reply.. But earlier I was strong and now I am weak again.. He was gonna come over to see the kids but went out for pizza instead then called said the kids would be in bed but he would come and see me if I wanted him to and I said if you want to well needless to say he never came.. I am such a sucker I just need to say ok do whatever you want because I don't care - I can live by myself without you.. Though the reality is that I do not want to... I am going crazy - At this point I don't care about the affair anymore I just want back something close to the man I married...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by maw64:
<strong> At this point I don't care about the affair anymore </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hold onto that thought!!! The A isn't the issue (although you do have to go through your grieving process). The issue is the environment of your marriage prior to your H's CHOICE to have an A.<p>You cannot change your H. You cannot tell/ask him what to do right now without it being a mega LB (love buster). All you can do is plan A your heart out - start by focusing on YOU. Become the VERY BEST YOU you can be. It will take time to find out who that gal is, but she's in there. This will all 'click' for you before you know it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And yes, I'm sorry to say, your H is a VERY typical WS. If it makes you feel better knowing that your H is acting 'normal' in an affair situation, then know that he's 'normal' right now.<p>Keep this in mind: You seem to know that you want to work on your marriage. Your H does not know what he wants. All you can do to convince him that your M is worth saving, is to become the best you you can be, so he can see what he'd be missing out on by taking the (so called) easy way out.<p>Karen

I'm sorry you had a bad night - mine wasnt all that great either - I know we want to be strong and tell them - Fine do what you want i really dont care but the point is - we do care, Alot! My H wants to start sleeping in another room because he thinks that his insomina is because of me and I all but begged him not to -I hear myself doing these things and then wonder why?? Be stong today and keep in mind that even if he didnt comeover he thought about it and that is a step in the right direction.

thank you rdvpmm and at this point I would actually like my husband to sleep in another room as long as he was in the same house... He says that he is going to the counselor next week and is going to tell him everything and hope the man has some answers.. See he thinks that the affair has nothing to do with the way he is feeling and I do not believe that. He says you know I love you I just feel we have drifted apart.. Oh well.. and Topie25 I know that I have to work on myself but I learned the other day in therapy that I really never consider my feelings just his and the kids.. I am a mess... Today I feel ok though I am very tired sleep does not come easily... I am sure he will come over tonight but probably to see the kids.. not much in my direction.. I want this to work but it is so hard....

ohmygod - I think our H's could be brothers! the fact that he is willing to do counsling is good - I got my H to goto marriage counsling once with me and she made a point of telling me that he wouldn't have been there if he didnt want to be. Just remember that - you arent making him do this, he knows there is something wrong with his thinking and he needs help. My H and I are both in seperate counsling now which is good but seems to be a very slow process - be patient (I know its hard).

Brothers - that is scary that there are two of them out there... My husband told me last night he just sits down to think about what to do and it is just blank.. he is the one that finally after 5 months said he would go to counseling he is hoping the man will tell him he is crazy.. he just doesn't think that the A has caused all of these feelings he has.. Its like he did it, its over forget it.. I think he is dealing with tons of guilt because I just didn't get pissed I fell apart and tried to smother him.. So he is more guilty then before. It is such a mess and actually I was just thinking about how everyone describes this as a roller coaster ride and last night I was dreaming about being on a ride... Hopefully our husbands will find themselves and soon for our sanity... Do you have children??

"He thinks that the affair has nothing to do with the way he is feeling."<p>My counselor said that an affair is just a symptom of something else. So, that could be true. However, now the key is to find out why it is he is feeling this way so that the two of you can work on it together.<p>Ok, yes, definately plan A - for you. Remember that you count, your feelings count, and it is NOT all your fault.<p>Then, as for wanting it to just be all done and over with - sure, that's natural. You can't say that you don't have the same feeling inside!? However, you know the reality of that not being able to happen at the flip of a switch. You have the misfortune of having faced the realities of this pain, the magnatude of his deceipt and betrayal - he has yet to do that. <p>You want your marriage and you want to rebuilt, so you may have to put the issue of the affair on hold for a bit. I know, that's hard to say, but you will have your time - you need to have your time. There will come a moment that you WH has to realize he needs to let you grieve the betrayal. He needs to be able to sit down and hear you out. He needs to listen to your pain, to feel your pain, and he needs to do just that - listen. He needs to understand it's not an attack, or meant to be a LB, but simply that you deserve the chance to get it all out. You have to be willing to allow him the time to soul search, digest, and emotionally be ready to simply be there to share in your pain. It took me a few months to be able to do that for my BH, but one day I just said, I know you need to do this, and I know it will help us move forward, so I AM READY to just listen and allow you to show me how I have made you feel.<p>You are at the beginning of a long hard road, but it's not impossible to travel. Make a plan on how you want to approach the rebuilding, maybe even with the help of your counselor. For you and your husband, it might be best to explore where/what went wrong in the relationship to begin with. Maybe once that is in the stages of repair the affair can be disected and resolved as best it can.<p>I have a saying that helps me keep my spirit; it's in my closing, but I want to put it here for you because of something you mentioned in your posts: "Be true, stay strong, but remember it's ok to feel weak sometimes."<p>Also, I want to share one other thing with you that may help when you are working on you. I have trouble sometimes likeing me - mostly because of what I have put my husband through with my affair. I honestly don't believe I will truly like myself to the extent I should until I know that things are where they should be in my marriage (grant it rebuilding is going great). My husband and I had a talk the other day about this because I was having a real hard time with how we are taught we have to like ourselves for someone else to like us. Know what my husband told me - "it's ok, I love/like you." He let me know that it was ok if I didn't like myself because I have him and he believes in me. So, if you are down, don't think it's a bad thing. You are still you, even if you are having a rough moment. <p>Hope this helps. I know it is long, but I tend to be long winded. I wish you the best. Keep your chin up, and when you need a boost, we are here for you.

Thank you Tutter - the other point of view finally - I told him that even if he didn't think he was in love right now - that I had enough love for the both of us and we can work it out and we can make it better - he just doesn't think I will ever forgive him and will be bringing it up when we are 55 ya know?? I don't think he has dealt with the magnitude of what his affair has done to us?? He says he is over it and can live with himself but I don't believe it is true?? Will he ever come around and realize that I will forgive him, I am willing to go through this hell because I love him and I am not willing to throw in the towel no matter how difficult a task.. He just keeps saying he feels we have grown apart... Nothing in common - we have more in common now then we did 19 years ago.. And thank you for your input...

<<Will he ever come around and realize that I will forgive him, I am willing to go through this hell because I love him and I am not willing to throw in the towel no matter how difficult a task.. >><p>Have you come right out and told him this? Here is something to keep in ming: forgiving and forgetting are two different things. You can forgive whenever you want and are ready to, but forgetting will take a little longer. My husband forgave me a long time ago. I believe him when he said that, and I have faith he really has forgiven me in his heart too. However, I acknoweldge that the forgetting will take time and the both of us are willing to walk that road together (which makes it a bit easier). Let him know these things. <p>As for the growing apart. . . I have a new view on that which I gained several months ago and has helped me a lot. Everyone grows, and everyone changes through time. However, everyone also has in the back of their mind a picture of exactly how things are supposed to be. So, when these changes and growth occur and don't conform to our mental picture, we reject them as being wrong. The truth is, we just simply don't realize that although the route to get there looks different, the final destination is still the same. The key is to embrace the growth and change as a good thing, and to do it together. Growth and change can be such a good thing if you take the time to see and embrace the beauty of it, especially with someone special like your spouse. Be patient because when he realizes the beauty in it, you will be happy to be the one to share it with him. Be supportive, and encouraging. Remind him that as much as he needs support and encouragment that he is doing right, so do you. Communication and team work, those are the key.<p>If there is anything else I can offer, please ask. I find it awkward to respond sometimes because I am at a point beyond many WS, but I guess I like to try to give as much hope as possible. We can and do come around. I wish the best for you and your husband.<p>Take care. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Thank you again Tutter for your input - maybe you are dealing differently because you are a wife.. Ya know men sometimes are not that emotional and can easily just tune stuff out.. I have told him point blank that I want to and can fix this.. I told him my family and marriage are the most imporant things to me right now and I hoped that they were for him also. I feel he is being very selfish but I haven't told him that.. He thinks that I am the controlling one because I do everything the house, kids etc.. I believe he is just making up excuses because he feels bad about what he did.. Hopefully the counselor he goes to next week can help him see the light... It is just so hard not calling him, and begging him to come home.. I just feel so pathetic.. One minute I am a wreck and the next strong... I wish most of the time I could just wack him upside the head and knock some sense into him.. I do forgive him but you are right I cannot forget and I probably never will but I am willing to live with this and him... thanks for caring....

"I feel he is being very selfish but I haven't told him that.."<p>Good, there may be a time when he is ready for you to express that, and you will be better equipted to express it in a more productive way, but you are right in keeping that to you for now. <p>"He thinks that I am the controlling one because I do everything the house, kids etc.. I believe he is just making up excuses because he feels bad about what he did.."<p>Ok, if he thinks that start asking for his help. I think us women try to do more because it may have been that way as we grew up. Mom took care of the house and kids, etc., so we try to be that strong. It's ok to let him help with those things. If he offers, let him. Know what, they are capable without screwing it up. You don't have to be superwoman, and you'll find it nice to be relieved of some of the responsiblity (not to mention stress). I was the same way sometimes, but now I find that we share all responsibilities.<p>"It is just so hard not calling him, and begging him to come home.. I just feel so pathetic.. One minute I am a wreck and the next strong..."<p>You could call him and let him know you understand why he wants his space and why he has chosen to be away, but that you want him to know you miss him and look forward to the day he is ready to come home. It's not begging, but you are letting him know you care and desire to have him there. You are NOT pathetic! Remember that. And remember it's ok to feel weak one minute and strong the next. It's normal. Don't beat yourself up over that.<p>"I do forgive him but you are right I cannot forget and I probably never will but I am willing to live with this and him..."<p>Tell HIM this. Also, you're right, you never will forget, and I'm quite certain neither will he. However, I promise it will get easier to deal with as you progress together. So, let him know that too (that although it's something that will probably always be there, that you realize that as the two of you move forward it will get easier).<p>" thanks for caring.... "<p>My pleasure. I had many people from a support board that helped me through a lot in the beginning, and still do when I need it now. It makes a world of difference, and it really helps.<p>Take care, and good luck to you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

tutter - thanks again.. but it is really a mess now.. he says he is not in love with me, not sure if he wants to try to get it back together but the next sentence he doesn't want a divorce - doesn't want to do that to the kids - doesn't want to loose house etc... Says I always want to know everything about the A - he says if I knew everything - I would probably want to divorce him so basically I don't know what he wants.. And neither does he.. Says he isn't feeling it when we make love etc.. I mean how much am I suppose to take... I told him that if he didn't want to loose the house, wreck the kids etc.. then we needed to try and make it work.. and he should move back in to do that - but I am leaving it up to him.. he is going to the counselor because I am making him he says - but he hasn't been fighting it for 5 months so he must want to go.. He just doesn't know what he wants and do I have it me to just let him take me apart piece by piece while he finds it??? Any advice ?? Anyone??? Says he hasn't been happy for a long time and I never knew that until last August in the middle of his affair when the guilt started eating at him??? what do I do???

Ok, let's try to calm down. You are strong, even when you feel weak.<p><<he says he is not in love with me, not sure if he wants to try to get it back together but the next sentence he doesn't want a divorce - doesn't want to do that to the kids - doesn't want to loose house etc...>><p>Kids and house are an excuse. He is confused and uncertain of exactly what he is feelings. He has a lot of emotions, feelings and thoughts running in his mind and doesn't know how to sort them out. So he does the best way he can, by trying to lump it into all one thing that seems to answer them all and make sense, but in reality it makes no sense - even to him.<p><<Says I always want to know everything about the A - he says if I knew everything - I would probably want to divorce him so basically I don't know what he wants..>><p>Well, even if that's true, he needs to realize that for once he owes you some respect and in that should give you the whole puzzle to look and and finally allow you to make some choices where he has taken it upon himself to make for the both of you all along. Also point out that the picture you can create without the pieces he doesn't want to give to you is most likely much worse then the real thing. If you were going to divorce him you would have gone for the route already. He needs to know that you made the conscious decision to stick this out, to travel this rough road, knowing that it might get worse before it gets better. You chose to stay and work on things. You realize that some of what he may have to say could hurt all the more, but you have chosen to take that in an effort to heal past it together. He needs to realize that knowing helps you to finish the puzzle and to put it away. Not knowing keeps you comming back to those missing pieces wondering if you've filled them in right. <p><<I told him that if he didn't want to loose the house, wreck the kids etc.. then we needed to try and make it work.. and he should move back in to do that - but I am leaving it up to him..>><p>Don't use the kids and house to try to keep him. That won't make you happy. Let him know that the house can be replaced and the kids can adjust and most likely would be happier in a separated family then in one that is lifeless. Then let him know that you want to work through the problems in your marriage and see if the two of you can have the life together you have always wanted, but that you want to do it for the right reasons. You want him home?! Ok, let him know that you desire to have him home. That you know it's hard on him, but that you want to be there to help him sort out his feelings. That you want this marriage and if he does too that the two of you can work through this, but it has to be done TOGETHER. If he comes home it will be easier to work together on it. Let him know that there will come a time that the two of you will need to talk about the affair, and questions he will need to answer to help you finish the puzzle and be done with it, but also let him know that you are willing to put those issues on hold to work through others with him first. You two have to realize that you can't solve everyone overnight and you have to take things an issue at a time. There will come a day (which I did for my husband and truly believe it makes a huge difference) that he will need to allow you to just talk and he just listen. That he will need to let you release all of what you feel in order for you to move forward. All he can do is listen and accept that your feelings are real. He doesn't have to agree with them, just acknowledge they are real to you. Unfortunately, you are best to wait till he is emotionally ready to do that. However, that doesn't in any way mean you should put up with verbal abuse. Let him know that you love him and you want things to work, but these outbursts and pointing the finger just isn't going to work. That it's counterproductive for the both of you. Once you learn to respectfully communicate, you will get a lot further. You don't have to agree with eachother on everything, but it is important to allow the other to feel their own feelings.<p><<he is going to the counselor because I am making him he says - but he hasn't been fighting it for 5 months so he must want to go.. He just doesn't know what he wants and do I have it me to just let him take me apart piece by piece while he finds it???>><p>No, don't let him take you apart. When he starts that just ask if we can discuss this later when we are both calmer and can have a more productive conversation rather than argue. He won't leave just because you don't let him walk all over you. If he leaves, it's for other reasons that he can't sort out. However, he will continue to walk on you as long as you let him. I'm not saying to yell back or retaliate, simply let him know that you think this can be discussed and worked through, and that you are more than willing to do it, but it has to be done productively. When he talks you listen, and when you talk he must listen. Don't think of what you are going to say next while he's still talking (this is something he should be reminded of as well). As for the counseling - I agree, if he really didn't want to go he wouldn't.<p><< Any advice ?? Anyone??? Says he hasn't been happy for a long time and I never knew that until last August in the middle of his affair when the guilt started eating at him??? what do I do???>><p>I hope this helps. As for the not being happy for a long time, I'm sure you have had your moments, but if he doesn't agree to work together and communicate about these things then there is no way you can work to help correct the marriage (this needs to be expressed to him). I don't mean to sound like I am preaching. I am just trying to share pertinent things I have learned from others, my counselor, and my experience that I think may help - if for anything else to help you feel you can be in control.<p>Best to you. Keep your chin up, and remember you are a beautiful person.

Tutter - It amazes me how good you people all are.. I wish my husband would read this website but he wants no part of anything.. He has talked to me about the affair but it was like pulling teeth - he says he is just not going to give me any more fuel for my fire so to speak..I have told him that I want him home to work on this and that I was willing to do anything to try and work through this and change the things that were wrong before - and his answer is of course you are.. just in all fairness if things were as bad as he said before he needed to clue me in.. I know I don't want him if he doesn't want to be there but I really do.. So I am not going to pressure him anymore.. About the counseling he definately needs some sort of guidance even if he doesn't think so. I just hope his counselor tells him that we should try to work through this and that he thinks we should come and see him together.. I told him the whole puzzle thing he didn't buy it.. he is just clueless right now and says that he sits to think about what he wants and draws a blank.. Real comforting for me huh? I am the one who wants to talk all of the time he would rather just never talk again... I just don't know but your input has been helpful... I refuse to be the one to ask for a divorce when I don't want one - if he wants one he is going to have to get up the balls and do the asking....

maw, There's good in not forgetting. By not forgetting the circumstances surrounding his A, you'll be able to help head off another one down the line. If I had known then what I know now, I'd probably been able to talk to my WH before he entered the "fog" and the A would have never happened. I don't need to forget, because if I do I'll likely miss the warning signals all over again. Fortunately my WH never left, never really wanted to. It's been 3 mo since D-Day, and he's reaching the point where it is a LB when I get down in the dumps. It's like in the past 2 weeks he's decided it's time for us to quit talking about it, quit lamenting over it and move on, enjoy each other again. I can do this 90% of the time, but 2 days ago the OW approached him at work and they talked about the A, so this has reopened wounds for me.
I'll tell this story because it is so comical, might give y-all a laugh.
On Tuesday he had to work in close quarters with her all day. Well to start with he turns the radio on gospel preaching!! (SHE hated it). Well he spend the day visiting with the other guy with them instead of talking to her - of course she listened in and probably had a comment or 2. Anyway, after lunch, he was out of the vehicle and I called his cell phone. SHE HAD THE NERVE TO ANSWER IT!! I asked if my H or the other guy were in the truck. She handed the phone to the other guy, and I left a message with him.
Well Thursday, she cornered my H and wanted to know why I was so rude to her and why I didn't think she respected me. (DO Y'ALL THINKS SHE RESPECTS ME??!!? SHE TRIED TO TAKE MY HUSBAND!! THAT'S NOT RESPECT!!) He said He didn't know. Then she wanted to know why I won't talk to her and why he won't talk to her anymore. He just kind of shrugged his shoulders. She said it was like someone had told him not to talk to her anymore, and wondered if I knew about the A. He said I might have picked up on some things, but he didn't think I knew(I don't want her to know that I know). Then he told her the reason he doesn't talk to her is because he doesn't want the opportunity to come up for the A to start over. He said that then she started getting mad and said that they had both made a mistake and she wouldn't let it happen again. HAHAHAHA! The reason she's out of sorts is because it isn't happening right now!!! He said he backed the truck he was driving away then and couldn't help but bust out laughing. I can not believe that this woman actually thinks I should still like her!!
Oh, and my hubby says that all he'd have to do is walk up behind her and caress her neck, and she'd be back all over him like white on rice. Yeah, she's not going to "let it happen again." That's her game. Constant sexual excitement. She'd LOVE to "let it happen again."
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe some of y'all find their conversation as comical as I do.