I spoke w/ my WW today, I told her that I would be willing to forego the no contact rule w/ OM if she was willing to come home and at least make an attempt at trying to work things out, my "demand" that nothing could be worked out between us until that letter is issued was part of the terms that I had told her, I realize that if that is the only thing holding her back from coming home then I would be willing to not make an issue of it. Does this seem like I am doing the right thing?

SS:<p>I think it may be the right thing to do. Something like this is what I'm doing now. My W gets so adamant that she should be able to remain friends with OM, despite what their relationship had been, that she gets very angry with me whenever I hint that I want her to break off contact with him. I don't think I can live with contact over time, but had to make the decision not to press the issue too hard while she's in her fog. I also feel like I need to be honest with her, in hopes she'll be honest with me, and so I've told her that although I won't demand no contact, I can't promise I'll put up with it for long. That way it's out there, but it's not really any demand or threat. I'm just being honest about how I feel. I want to be with her, but I don't want to "reward" OM for his role in breaking up our family, with her "friendship" from now on. <p>hope this helps your situation or gives you ideas

Well, since you are asking for opinions, I would say no way.<p>You have set up a boundary of respect. If she is to remain in a loving relationship with you, she has to respect your boundaries as well as you. She does not respect you as long as she continues contact with the OM. You will be allowing her to abuse you. You think things will be better with her home but I would promise you that it will be worse if she continues to see the OM. It ate me up inside to live that way for just a week.<p>Unless you are a person of extreme emotional fortitude and maturity, I doubt you will be able to handle the pain associated with her continued daily betrayal.<p>I recommend the book Love Must Be Tough.

I would be very careful about doing this. Your ultimate goal is to get no contact. So if you agree to contact, and then later ask her to break it off then she can rightfully accuse you of playing bate and switch with her. <p>You may want to have a session with Dr. Harley about this.

I'm with Mr. Bunky and zorweb on this...and my H & I were separated 7 times, the first 5 times the contact had not ended, or did not continue to be at an end. I think I only made no contact a requirement the 2nd & 7th reconciliations, but my memory for the details is fading.<p>Certainly my experience colors my opinion, but I doubt the probability of a true recovery if contact isn't ended, or at the very least, that she will be accountable and honest with you if there is contact.<p>What do you see as the benefit for her coming home and continuing contact with the OM? Write it down, then look at it, is that a short-term or long-term goal/hope? Having her in the house vs having her committment? <p>I can tell you for sure that if she comes home and continues contact, your lovebank will be draining very quickly and you will have to watch the lovebusters much more closely.
It doesn't get easier the second time you separate,

I agree with Lor, Mr. Bunky and Zorweb,<p>Steve Harley recommends taking extraordinary measures to successfully recover, to the extent of changing jobs and moving away to ensure No Contact. <p>Until there is No Contact you haven't really started Recovery of your marriage. IMHO, if your W comes home and there is continued contact, you haven't really changed anything except where your W lives. The A is still active. <p>Unfortuntely, the A needs to die it's own natural death, that would be a sure fire ending, and then true Recovery can begin. <p>God Bless,<p>Jo<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

gotta jump on the bandwagon here... No Contact agreement is pretty darn important. H came home twice without this firmly agreed upon. It sure back-fired --> contact resumed --> affair continued. If WS is not willing to give up the OP, and reassure you of that, then they're not serious about the marriage. <p>There should be a price to coming back home, back into your life, and a price to earning your trust back.

Aw heck. I have to jump back in here. <p>I read SS's original post as meaning that W would come home and still maybe contact OM, but not see him. I may have misunderstood this.<p>In my case, I simply don't feel like I've done enough of a strong Plan A to insist on no contact at this point, without risking driving WW toward OM. She nor I have "left" yet, so we're still together in the same house with our kids at this point, and I have simply decided to tread on eggshells and be a doormat for a bit longer to build up LBank deposits in her account before making any demands. <p>Don't forget, it takes two to set up the conditions within a M that cause couples to withdraw from each other. In my case, it's been going on so long that my W feels she needs to see "results" long-term to believe I've really corrected my own shortcomings, if I can. In truth, she's got a lot of issues to deal with within herself that I'm watching to see results as well. Complicated process, rebuilding a M, and my IC says that, in my case, insisting on no contact NOW would be counterproductive, particularly since OM is in another state and they couldn't get together any time soon anyway. <p>But your results may vary considerably.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 2long:
Aw heck. I have to jump back in here. <p>I read SS's original post as meaning that W would come home and still maybe contact OM, but not see him. I may have misunderstood this.
<hr></blockquote><p>Hi 2Long,<p>Any form of contact reignites the feelings the OP and WS have for one another (addiction), therefore, once there is contact all the effort to recover the Marriage is lost and it's back to square one.<p>Jo<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Resilient: "Any form of contact reignites the feelings the OP and WS have for one another (addiction), therefore, once there is contact all the effort to recover the Marriage is lost and it's back to square one."<p>True enough. I know this to be the case, and have pointed it out to my W. Our D has also pointed it out to her. Since she doesn't agree, we have a choice: Work with her if we can, or throw her out (and make her work alone, if she cares). What would you do with those options?

What would I do?<p>Well, I did do ... After 11 mos of Plan A with us living together and the A in my face 24/7, I gave my x-H a loving ultimatum, to end the A or to please leave. Hardest decision I ever had to make. x-H touted the A was over, but investigation told me different and he confirmed it. <p>For my situation, I was ill and what was to be 8 weeks of radiation treatments turned into 8 months. In addition I had emotionally had my fill, it started to feel abusive to me. <p>So knowing everyone's situation in terms of nuances is different, I was simply quoting what Steve Harley states, AND what I have experienced on this board from several other's situations in the last 2 years.<p>Jo<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

No contact has to be an absolute...and any WS not agreeing to it is NOT ready for real reconcillation. Don't bend the rules...don't be an enabler. My H was "ok" with contact at one point too and all it did was backfire. Then I lied about contact for a while. When I really decided I wanted this marriage I agreed to any rules my H wanted to lay out. He had previously requested things of me and I refused...this time I agreed to ANYTHING HE NEEDED to get us back on track. And THIS TIME we're fine...the other times it was just another ride on the roller coaster. You know what end result you want...in order to get there you HAVE to do things differently. If she wants the marriage then she has to commit...and having a "friend" on the side is not commiting.

It's only been 2 months since D-day, not much time for me to do a decent Plan-A.<p>Don't get me wrong, this contact, which is probably one or two liners in email about 3 times/month (to my knowledge), is eating me alive, and my W knows it. I WON'T tolerate it for long, but her fog is so thick, and she's so proud and arrogant (her worst sides of those qualities have taken over, she has many very good qualities), and I'm just not quite ready to toss my kids' mother out just yet. Getting close, but not quite there yet.

My H is going to Bangkok today. I know he will see OW there as he is taking a teddy bear to return to her, tell her he didn't want it. I said this was not right that I wish he wouldn't see her again. That it would all start up again.<p>He disagreed. I don't know how long I can do this for. When he returns from hols he is moving out - I think its buying time. <p>What do I do, its only been 8weeks since dday 1 but its been an eternity for me. I know that during the six weeks he's had contact with her, I haven't told him this.<p>What do I do?

Seahorse:<p>Well, in your case at this point, you should at least try to get him to understand what you're feeling, and go from there.<p>In my case, once again, I would very much like to be able to get "closure" on the OM issue and focus on rebuilding our relationship, but since W doesn't believe it's a problem remaining friends with the jerk, I have to decide whether to insist (and LB), or let her find out on her own that this [censored] simply will not let her go. <p>At the same time, I am getting rather fed up and exhausted working my a** off by myself, it seems, and am going to get more and more antsy to just give up. I certainly am not afraid of DV like I was as recently as a few weeks ago. But quitting out of anger and frustration isn't a good solution, either. Whatever happens, I need to be comfortable with myself, so if we rebuild, it was worth the pain, and if we DV, I'll be ready for another, more fullfilling relationship with someone else.

SEahorse<p>Are you certain he will be moving out when he gets back?<p>Have you plan Aed well enough?<p>Whos decision to move out?<p>Thinking of you. Been wondering how its going.
Hang in there.<p>Dancer
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

2long I feel how you feel some days, other days I feel ok. Its a bloody bummer isn't it?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have to decide whether to insist (and LB), or let her find out on her own that this [censored] simply will not let her go. <hr></blockquote><p>You can ask and that's it, or cut contact. Its not OM's (in your case) fault either. A very wise MBer (WAT) pointed out that they are just a symptom of the real disease (the problems in your marriage). You have to keep reminding yourself of it. It has be her decision to give him up for you. I know this hurts-I'm feeling this pain very much right at this moment as my husband is choosing to see OW over me-make me feel like he has chosen to send me to the lions. But, that's one of my lessons from my bloody mess, I have no control, except over what I do. I've aksed him not to see her, told him what I think about it. <p>I'm not ready for Plan B, but I have a time limit set (26th July) and I have time to get help from a counsellor to become strong enough to enact that plan if I have to. I also have to learn to control my emotions better too, thats what I'll talk to my counsellor about on Monday, because now I know who I can control, I have to learn how to keep it in control, cause right now (at this very moment) I'm not.

Wayward spouses who refuse to follow any rules or boundries are like children...they'll push it as far as they can take it just to see how far they CAN take it and then pout and cry when things don't go their way. They wouldn't put up with this crap from you or anyone else...yet they're "entitled"???? I felt entitled...it was the first time I was putting my needs, my feelings, my wants first...but then whose fault really was that? MINE! If nothing else, this board reminds me how wonderful the roses smell when my nose isn't positioned way up in my nether regions.<p>If you lay on the ground and allow people to wipe their shoes on you...whose fault is it that they continue to do so? Don't be a doormat...fight for what you want...don't settle for what you get.<p>JMO

Hi Dancer, was thinking about u 2? Feeling better?<p>His decision to move out (needs space), I'm Plan Aing, but don't feel like I;m very good, still learning.<p>H4F - I get the impression from your post you are very angry. What is it that upsets you so? I'm not being a doormat, I've made it clear she can't be in the marriage with us - I'm not into threesomes in any way! I've told him he is to be nice to me and won't accept his cutting remarks. I've told him I won't lie anymore. I'm setting my boundaries as I find I need them. <p>I still love this man, believe it or not. Not who he is now, but the real person. The real person never treated me this way and I'm sure he's still lurking underneath the [censored] that's there now.<p>What makes you so angry about that?

Seahorse: "2long I feel how you feel some days, other days I feel ok. Its a bloody bummer isn't it?"<p>Your damn straight it is. And then there's the phone call from W just a few minutes ago (3rd one today - she's out of town at a conference and went to buy a SciFi book for our son). In this call, she could tell I wasn't particularl cheerful, just "there." I've stopped hiding how I feel, and simply told her, "I'm pretty much okay, but only because I realize I can make it on my own if I have to. I don't really hold a lot of hope for our M based on the things you said at the MC Tuesday." I also told her that I really do love her, and she said ILY to me, too. But really, the problems in our M are pretty ingrained and will take some real effort to sort out and correct. I've been sorting my tail off for 2 months now, and she's still just "taking things a day at a time" and still thinks this MB method is "stupid and simplistic." <p>H4F: Again, you are absolutely right about the no contact rule. When applied, it looks like a great way to get that area closed and allow us to focus on our M without distraction. But I'll say again: My W is precious to me, in spite of what she's done and in spite of her current pig-headedness. Hell, she's deeply in the fog, and is probably the last person that would ever admit she could be wrong about this issue even if she wasn't fogged in. At least, in my case, she isn't meeting with Rat Meat, I mean the OM, doesn't want sex with him anymore, and doesn't want even an EA with him (though I think she still is in one), and so I at least have *some* room to work with her, even if it's not with 100% focus. It's better than not communicating, which we both agree we need to do MORE, not less, of before we either go on as a couple or on our own.<p>Seahorse: I do realize that OM isn't the problem, but just a symptom of our M problems. What's got me down is how I'm going to get past my W's pride, and get her to realize that she played a big part of the withdrawal over the years, and she's got a lot of therapy to go through before we can get very far. I'm not convinced she'll see an IC frequently enough or for a long enough time. (she hasn't seen one on her own yet, and wants to work with Kaiser, which in my opinion schedules visits too far apart - 2-3 wks - to be worth a damn).<p>So, although I get signs from our phone conversations yesterday and today that she's interested in our M, I still feel it's futile in some ways. But I do continue to love her very much.