Maybe I'm just not getting it...<p>Exactly WHAT reprecussions does a WS experience again?<p>Ummm- let's see- you got to have experience after experience of flirtations, sexual excitement and "checking out" on the reality of kids, marriage, money, etc...<p>As a BS- I'm having an EXTREMELY hard time with this- when I mention the pain of this- and my STBX says he is in pain too???<p>HUH???<p>What kind of pain could he POSSIBLY be feeling- he is the one that went out and had all the fun and left me holding all the bags!!!<p>If it was so PAINFUL- why didn't he stop after one again? Why was it almost 6 years with over 10 people??<p>Any WS insight would be appreciated- because I just don't see what kind of PAIN he could possibly even be experiencing at all!<p>ECO

Hi ECO,<p>Altho I'm not a WS, and probably someone such as Snl or others are better equipped to answer your inquiry, my take on this Pain the WS feels it more a constant unhappiness within themselves. <p>Did you read the Post authored by Paruil? You may want to glean that post. Paruil explains how a WS may feel a good degree of self rejection which can possibly be responsible for their unhappiness. But they (WS) attribute their unhappiness to the marriage or their spouse, and feel if they could just find the right person then they'd feel happy. When all along it's within themselves. <p>I'll look for the post and paste a link here for you.<p>Here you go, Hon: Click Here<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi emo.....I am a WS that had multiple affairs. I am also a recovering sex addict. I didn't know(or admit it should I say) till Jan. 2002. I am not saying your husband has this problem but it sounds like many stories I have heard (including my own).<p> You said....What kind of pain could he POSSIBLY be feeling- he is the one that went out and had all the fun and left me holding all the bags!!!<p>If it was so PAINFUL- why didn't he stop after one again? Why was it almost 6 years with over 10 people??<p>
Whenever I would have an affair or have cybersex or go to the porno shop, when I was done I felt like a total peice of crap. Maybe this is what your husband means when he says he is in pain too. He knows he has destroyed you and wants to stop but somehow he can't. <p> Here is some stuff out of one of the many books that we go through in our SAA meeting.<p> What is a sexaholic?
The sexaholic has taken himself or herself out of the whole context of what is right or wrong. He or she has lost control, no longer has the power of choice, and is not free to stop. LUST has become an addiction. Our situation is like that of the alcoholic who can no longer tolerate alcohol and must stop drinking altogether but is hooked and cannot stop. So it is with the sexaholic, or drunk, who can no longer tolerate lust but cannot stop.<p>Now that you know what a sex addict is let me give you a little more from the SAA book that tells you the actual problem of a sex addict.<p>The Problem....
Many of us felt inadequate, unworthy, alone, and afraid. Our insides never matched what we saw on the outsides of others. Early on, we came to feel disconnected-from parents, from peers, from ourselves. We tuned out with fantasy and masturbation. We plugged in by drinking in the pictures, images, and pursuing the objects of our fantasies. We lusted and wanted to be lusted after. We became true addicts: sex with self, promiscuity, adultery, dependency relationships, and more fantasy. We got it through the eyes, we bought it, we sold it, we traded it, we gave it away. We were addicted to the intrigue, the tease, the forbidden. The only way we knew to be free of it was to do it. "Please connect with me and make me whole!" we cried with outstretched arms. Lusting after the Big Fix, we gave away our power to others. This produced guilt, self hatred, remorse, emptiness, and pain, and we were driven ever inward, away from reality, away from love, lost inside ourselves. Our habit made true intimacy impossible. We could never know real union with another because we were addicted to the unreal. We went for the "chemistry", the connection that had the magic, because it bypassed intimacy and true union. Fantasy corrupted the real; lust killed love. First addicts, then love cripples, we took from others to fill up what was lacking in our selves. Conning ourselves time and again that the next one would save us, we were losing our lives. <p> I tell you this because although the affair for a sex addict feels good at the time it makes you feel completely hopeless and worthless on the inside. Although our hurt will never compare to the hurt that the BS feels on the inside maybe he really is hurting and is in pain.

Sex addiction in no way means our adultrous behavior is O.K. Adultery is still the one thing that God says is O.K. to get a divorce for. It also says that it was not at all the BS fault. You had nothing to do with it.<p> My addiction has cost me the wife who I dearly loved to be with and hold on a daily basis. It has cost me being a at home dad( bike rides, book reading, telling them good nite on a daily basis), and it has cost me the dreams my wife and I had for the rest of our lives. So you see some WS do experience a lot of pain but like I said it in no way compares to the pain that we inflicted on the ones we love.<p> Love in Christ,<p> cajunky<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

Far from a WS here, but I can tell you what happened to the x when people found out what really happened.<p>He lost the respect of my family, huge Irish stuck together like glue family, and since his own family doesn't give a hoot about him it really stung.<p>His friends thought he was a real jerk. There he was always complaining about what a rotten wife and mother I was, and they found out all the while he was complaining he was out messing around.<p>He lost respect from his boss and coworkers. His boss even told him that he didn't like having people like him on his team.<p>He can no longer look at our 2 darling rugrats anytime he wants. If he wakes up in the middle of the night there is nobody to check on.<p>When he calls he gets to hear about what we are having for dinner, what game we are going to play afterwards, and most of the time the kids are too busy to want to talk to him.<p>This one is the saddest of all. Our son Chris is old enough to understand what happened and he thinks his father is not a nice person.<p>These are the thoughts that keep this bitter old bat warm at night.<p>Elizabeth

Since my h is unaware of the A, I'm not sure that my answers will be what you're looking for but...<p>I have to wonder what his recent blood test will say when he goes to the doctor...did I stupidly bring something home that will tell on me?<p>I ruined the friendship I had with the OM...it's gone. Lost a friend that was like a brother.<p>Lost OM's W as a friend as well. <p>Have to live with the knowledge that I broke the sacred vows I made to my husband and God.<p>I have to live with the fear that h will find out somehow, anyway. No more guilt free nights for me.<p>ANd I can only imagine how hurt he would be if he knew...and I would be the cause of his pain.<p>Never again, it's not worth it.

ecu,<p>I think Paruil hit the nail on the head:<p>"...a WS may feel a good degree of self rejection which can possibly be responsible for their unhappiness. But they (WS) attribute their unhappiness to the marriage or their spouse, and feel if they could just find the right person then they'd feel happy. When all along it's within themselves."<p>I think this paragraph describes my W to a T. She's not happy with herself, but it's human nature want to blame someone, and the BS is the obvious choice. OM came along and was someone she could share things with she didn't even share with her family. As her relationship with him developed, that just added insult to injury as she became more and more emotionally attached to him and detached from me. <p>I think the worst part for the WS is when the A begins to fizzle out, they realize OP wasn't the solution, the unhappiness is still there and the BS may or may not be around to blame anymore. Add guilt to the mix and it just makes it worse. It must be horrible to look in the mirror and see all the damage that was done to the marriage, BS, kids, etc. and realize you've gotten nowhere as a person. I think this is the point my W is at, and I feel terrible for her, but I know I can't help unless she let's me. <p>Just my take on it, I may be wrong.<p>sad dad

Well, unfortunatly I am very "qualified" to answer that question. The fact is that the A would NEVER have happend if I HADN'T been totally miserable at the time. The OM was a long time friend and NEVER had I entertained the thought of entertaining THOUGHTS! That was so totally OUT OF THE QUESTION. At my lowest, however, I became infatuated with him. This was also the most painful experience he has ever had. Fun? No...more like two people clinging on desperatly to the hope that someday everything will be allright. The fantasies and flirtations are to attempt to avoid the depression, self loathing, guilt, pain pain PAIN. And when it works...if even for a second...they try for more. Do you think that alcoholics love being alcoholics? They simply can't stand the thought of dealing with the world without their crutch. The pain was so awful at times that I came to understand why some people choose to commit suicide. It simply hurt so deeply and it FELT like it would never end. I KNEW better, but no matter what I couldn't make myself FEEL better. I'm not sure if that explains it any better or not...

The repercussions are as varied as people vary...some ws experience no repercussions (in the sense you mean). The repercussions arise out of 2 things, the marital dynamic and what is lost (or gained for that matter), and the individual dynamic. Likewise the repercussions to the bs are varied, depends on their sense of self, and role they played in the marital breakdown.<p>Without assigning the reasons, most ws experience the same things bs does, depression, feelings of insecurity (as their world blows up), malaise, rejection, guilt, loss of self-esteem, grief, fear....in addtition they deal may have to deal with directed anger (at them), scorn, shunning, ridicule. It is simplistic to label a ws as just some wanton human being who enjoyed fun and games and now is home with no punishment, life does not work that way... (well except maybe for sociopaths)....there are consequences, natural consequences to all human conflict.

btw, re self-rejection, I suppose that is a dynamic for some kinds of affairs, but it is not the reason for affairs, marriage is the reason for affairs. They are two sides of the same coin, one cannot exist without the other.<p>[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

ECO;
Oh, man, this brings back a lot of HORRIBLE memories for me...I was the WS about 10 years ago, and while I can't speak for your W, I can give you some feedback from my experience. It was THE worst period of my life. I was soul-sick, lonely, confused, and living in terrible denial. I know it sounds pretty ridiculous coming from someone who had two men on the burner, but I truly was lonely. I was in a hell of my own making, torn between two men I cared deeply about, and was torturing both of them and myself at the same time. I really didn't know what to do. If I left my H, I broke his heart; if I cut off the ties with the OM, I broke HIS heart, and either way, mine would be broken as well. I don't know how deeply the emotions run between your W and the OM, but I can tell you, in my situation, EVERYBODY lost. I understand why you feel so angry and so bitter, but let me tell you that unless your W has no heart AT ALL,(of course I'm not suggesting she doesn't, just making a point) she is hurting too. It's awful when the morning breaks, and YOU are the one cringing in the light of day, with all your dirtiest secrets exposed, and the raw emotions of someone you love and betrayed are staring you in the face.. and you know you put that pain there. BUT....BUT....still I say, if your wife cares about you, there is hope. When my A ended, I made a vow to my husband that if he would try to forgive me, and let me try to earn his trust back, I would NEVER do such an awful thing again. He did, and I kept that vow. The b***h that I was 10 years ago is dead...and good riddance! I am SO not the same person. I tell you these things because I want you to understand that sometimes good people do great wrong. And sometimes, they ARE worth another chance. I understand you want this man's blood on your hands. I would too, if it were me. But what will that get you? Your W will believe that she was correct in turning to the OM for emotional support. The OM will then be able to say to her,"See, your H is a brute, you are much too good for him, I can fill your needs SO much better." [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] and POW! another wedge between you and your W. And as far as telling the OM's W; well, chances are she already knows, and if she doesn't, why hurt her to make yourself feel better? Unless, however, there is a possibility of something contagious she should know about. Health issues change things. I truly want to help you with my observations, experiences, and my opinions...but keep in mind, the good thing about advice is, you can take it or leave it at YOUR discretion. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I wish all the best for you, and I will say a prayer for you, OK? God bless, MarieLaveau

Uh, sorry ECO; I'm pretty slow today...I just re-read your post and picked up on the fact that you just might be FEMALE! Allergy medications sometimes cause dain bramage. Uh, I mean, Brain Damage! lol Still, I think most of my reply still stands true.<p>MarieLaveau

ECO~<p>Hhhhhmmmm.....what were my repercussions.<p>1. Loss of dignity
2. Loss of honor
3. Loss of self respect
4. Pain of hurting others
5. Pain of hurting myself
6. Looking in the mirror and hating who I see.
7. Realization of just what type of person I am.
8. Knowing I can lie and not blink an eye.
9. I'm not going to say "loss of self esteem"
because I never had it to begin with.
10. Loss of desire to be good.
11. Realization of what kind of role model I am for my daughter.
12. Knowing I'm a hypocrite.
13. Knowing the sex was NOT worth it. It sucked.
14. Hating myself.
15. Being overcome with shame and embarrassment.
16. Looking my husband in the eyes and seeing his pain.
17. Knowing I will have to live with my actions for the rest of my life.<p>
Cajunky~<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Many of us felt inadequate, unworthy, alone, and afraid. Our insides never matched what we saw on the outsides of others. Early on, we came to feel disconnected-from parents, from peers, from ourselves. We tuned out with fantasy and masturbation.(I didn't have a problem with this) We plugged in by drinking in the pictures, images, and pursuing the objects of our fantasies. We lusted and wanted to be lusted after. We became true addicts: sex with self, promiscuity, adultery, dependency relationships, and more fantasy. We got it through the eyes, we bought it, we sold it, we traded it, we gave it away. We were addicted to the intrigue, the tease, the forbidden. The only way we knew to be free of it was to do it. "Please connect with me and make me whole!" we cried with outstretched arms (oh, GOD, yes, this is exactly how I felt). Lusting after the Big Fix, we gave away our power to others. This produced guilt, self hatred, remorse, emptiness, and pain, and we were driven ever inward, away from reality, away from love, lost inside ourselves. Our habit made true intimacy impossible. We could never know real union with another because we were addicted to the unreal. We went for the "chemistry", the connection that had the magic, because it bypassed intimacy and true union. Fantasy corrupted the real; lust killed love. First addicts, then love cripples, we took from others to fill up what was lacking in our selves. Conning ourselves time and again that the next one would save us, we were losing our lives.<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, this was me.....to a "T". <p>Something about this next statement doesn't sit well with me.....<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Although our hurt will never compare to the hurt that the BS feels on the inside maybe he really is hurting and is in pain.<hr></blockquote><p>Because, you see, I think it's the use of the word compare. I think both pains are just as painful. I just think it's comparing two different kinds of pain. The BS can live the rest of their life KNOWING they were faithful and all that entials and the WS lives the rest of their life knowing they lost all honor, respect, dignity, etc. That's alot to reckon with, and when you never had those things, it's hard as h*ll to acquire them.<p>SNL~<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>marriage is the reason for affairs<hr></blockquote><p>NOT!!! Relationships and the people in them are the reasons for affairs. People can have affairs and not be married to the betrayed. Marriage is a state of relationship.....not an absolute in affairs. The people in the relationship (their ability to handle adversity, buckling down and "rightly" getting over the hump) are really the reason for affairs....not the marriage certificate.<p>Marielaveau~<p>You statement put it all in a nutshell.......<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's awful when the morning breaks, and YOU are the one cringing in the light of day, with all your dirtiest secrets exposed, and the raw emotions of someone you love and betrayed are staring you in the face.. and you know you put that pain there.<hr></blockquote><p>AMEN. I can think of nothing worse thing to live with. KNOWING what I did.<p>selket

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
It's awful when the morning breaks, and YOU are the one cringing in the light of day, with all your dirtiest secrets exposed, and the raw emotions of someone you love and betrayed are staring you in the face.. and you know you put that pain there.<hr></blockquote><p>You know Selket, I truly wonder if my x-H sees things in this way. I think he believes what he has done to myself and our marriage was OKAY. I think he feels that because I'm now Outta-Site, so I'm Outta-mind.<p>And because he is with a woman who bore his child, even tho it was during our marriage, that he is righteous in what he has done. That it was destiny and our 15 year marriage was the mistake.<p>Is that denial, and do you ever think he'll realize his responsibility in the unbelievable pain he caused me. That what he did was WRONG??? IYHO .....<p>Jo<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

you are right sel, marriage is a subset, relationships are the reasons we have affairs...I guess I kinda look at marriage as the default for committed relaitonships, obviously many people choose committment, but don't marry, actually an affair is a committment choice too.... as long as people try for exclusivity, we will have affairs...they are one and the same.

Dear sweet Resilient~<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is that denial, and do you ever think he'll realize his responsibility in the unbelievable pain he caused me. That what he did was WRONG??? IYHO .....<hr></blockquote><p>I hope and pray it is so. This question weighs heavily on your mind, I can tell. I haven't read all of your posts, but I have read many of them.....and please let me say, I truly ache for you, Resilient. My heart goes out to you and I wish there was some way that I could squeeze the pain from your heart and mind. Denial??? I honestly don't know if he is in denial. My guess would be yes, but I can't say for certain. He seems to want to avoid any "unpleasantness" (facing his music) and he resides where there is the least resistance and the music tickles his ears.<p>I'm going to tell you this because I want you to realize the basis for what I'm going to post afterwards.............<p>My father. EEEEEWWWWW!<p>No need to say more!<p>Okay, just kidding, here goes.<p>You husband sounds very much like my father. My father has absolutely NO remorse for his infedilities. You know on Gone With The Wind when Rhett tells Scarlett "You are like the theif who is not sorry he stole, but only sorry that he got caught." Well, that's my dad. He's not sorry that he destroyed my relationship with him. He's not sorry that he's lost ALL respect from him children and his wife. He's not sorry for what he put my mother through (he would still screw around right under her nose, as he has with her cousin, sister, and best friends). He's only sorry he got caught and things were made more difficult by HIM having to be more discreet. He's only sorry that "he was found out". Not sorry for what he did. Hell, it makes him feel good to know that so many women will drop their panties for him (No matter how skanky, sleezy, woe-out looking and unlady-like they really are). It makes him feel like a man.<p>How can anyone compete or reason with the moronity of something like this??? He doesn't comprehend the enormity of his actions because in his mind he has something waiting in the wings. He has something to fall back on. He's sick and we are all pawns in his sick, twisted, and warped view of love and decency (does this sound like your ex???). He doesn't know what is honorable and he doesn't know what is decent and he doesn't know what love is (your ex, maybe???). How can he be in denial of all of these things when he's never recognized them to begin with?(ex, yes???) How can he be aware of others when he is only thinking of himself? (one more for the choir, yes????)<p>Do you see some of the similarities? How can he be aware of the rammifications of his actions towards you when he is ONLY thinking about himself and what is easiest for him? He can't. He can't wrap his mind around it because he's not there. He's not at a point to see your pain.<p>Resilient, if you want my honest opinion about your husband and if he will ever realize what he walked away from, then I will tell you. Yes, but there is a contigency here. If and only if he is left with no more music. Do you see what I'm saying? "You don't know what you've got until it's gone". See, he hasn't realized the full effects of not having YOU because he had a back-up plan to fall back on. He has something (someone) else to occupy his thoughts and actions.<p>I think you summed it up with "outta sight outta mind".<p>If your ex is anything like my father, then he does see what he has done as "okay". Do you see the sickness in this????????? This has nothing to do with you, your worthiness as a spouse, your worthiness of love, or your worthiness PERIOD!<p>I think that one fine day, when your ex is standing there with NOTHING, he will come to MANY realizations.<p>hugs and prayers for you, Resilient,<p>sel<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: selket ]</p>

&#8220;Yes&#8221; &#8230; that&#8217;s him, you have him pegged. My ex-husband is a younger version of your dad. <p>Seltec, I read your story on the Parent&#8217;s Infidelity thread. My jaw dropped open, I was in shock reading what you&#8217;ve been thru. I just can&#8217;t imagine how adults, parents, can be so self involved when raising their kids. I don&#8217;t know how you survived what you have Seltec, and not be bitter. Yet you seem very compassionate and caring &#8230;.you must be quite strong in your beliefs and have a good sense of self. <p>As for me, well &#8230;. I&#8217;m healing at a snails pace, and most members who know me here can testify to that. But I am making progress, and I do feel stronger as each day passes. I read where some people never get over a betrayal or divorce, that they don&#8217;t let go and live out their days in resentment and anger, that&#8217;s not going to happen to me. I won&#8217;t allow it, I want to be happy, I deserve it. <p>I don&#8217;t know if part of my becoming whole means I need to eventually forgive my H and the OW. I want to do that, but right now it feels impossible. Can I ask, have you forgiven your parents, your dad? How did you get there? What did it take? <p>Thank you for responding to me, I value your words.<p>Lv,
Jo

selket....the list says just about all the things that I felt to. I watched "The Family Man" with my kids tonite and I cried through the whole movie and it wasn't even sad. The reason I cried, and you can add this one to the list, is I will never experience the love in my wifes eyes when she says she really loves me. You know the deep look when they look into your eyes at that special moment. I really miss that.

ECO...<p>If you really want an answer that applies to you, you should, while being non-dismissive of his pain or judgemental of it, ask your husband. At any rate, I hope when you ask your H these type of questions that they aren't being phrased to him the way that they were phrased here. <p>Would you answer a question asked in such a way? By someone with seemingly no interest in your pain?<p>Having an affair can make someone feel some of the lowest lows that they've ever experienced...it hurts before it happens (usually due to needs not being met and feeling incredible guilt over contemplating acting on an attraction to someone else), it hurts while it's happening (because it's a special kind of hell to think that you're truly head over heels in love with two people, and know that you're doing both of them and yourself wrong by hanging on, but being absolutely sure that it would be too excruciatingly painful to lose either one of them...you literally feel paralyzed and unable to make a decision), and it hurts after it's over (because of the guilt, shame, anger, loneliness, isolation, loss of self-esteem, hopelessness, despair). Unlike the betrayed spouse, the cheating spouse is unlikely to find anyone that gives a s**t