W is reviewing the D papers. She has given no indication as to her direction. She had a therapy session last night and was a little bit colder when she got home, but I don't know where she is on this. She won't volunteer information, so I will probably ask her sometime today.<P>I do have a question. She keeps insisting that she needs to be alone for a while to sort things out. We tried that from May 15-Sep 4 and nothing changed. She called me at the apartment an average of 4-5 times per week and we did see each other almost every weekend. I only called her 2-3 times during the entire separation. She insists that she really liked the time we spent together. Since she was calling nearly every weekday, if I didn't hear from her for 3-4 days, I would send her an e-mail from work suggesting lunch or whatever.<P>In addition, she called OM 2-3 times/week and her mother and sister 3-4 times/week, each phone call more than an hour.<P>Now she says that I am responsible for her lack of "alone time" to work out what she wants. She said that if I didn't hear from her for 3 or 4 days that I would start bothering her and she couldn't get any peace. The only problem I see with this accusation is that she initiated nearly all of the phone calls and often every day. I got used to this and when I would go a while without any contact, I would quietly inquire as to how things were going. The other thing about my contact was that it was never phone calls, just one e-mail.<P>She has said several times over the last few days that she again needs this time alone. I have agreed that she probably does mean it, but I have asked for enough joint counselling to help us start working on communication issues and to help me start trusting her again. I really feel I need this in order to stay together during another separation.<P>My question to you all is this: Am I asking too much? I am trying to reach some kind of compromise that gives her what she wants and also helps me be more comfortable with it. My preference would be for both of us to start working out our problems immediately and earnestly, but she doesn't find that acceptable. She also doesn't find my compromise proposal acceptable, either. Even with the compromise, she says that I am controlling her, trying to force her to do things my way and am preventing her from moving out to get more alone time to think.<P>I know this is a long post, but I wanted to present some of the background.<P>Am I doing wrong here by asking too much of her?<P>

hi heartpain,<BR>I am not the person who can give you best advice here, I am sure! Hope that by bringing this to the top someone with more experience in this area will respond.<BR>Your wife does sound so conflicted...she is initiating the majority of calls, yet needs more time alone? Yes, I am as confused as you about that. <BR>You are there for her, meeting a need at the other end of the phone line. Maybe you need to set the boundaries? Set limits for her? Maybe you are making yourself too avaliable for her to place the blame? <BR>All I can offer is hugs and hope!!<BR>

I can help you here. I am a W and the betrayer, although I always have to add, I've been betrayed too. I see things from both sides. <P>"Alone Time" usually means one thing: time with the OM. It isn't a time to think, it's a time to see if it's gonna work with the OM. So, no, I do not think you are wrong at all in wanting to earnistly fight for your marriage, and that means no contact with OM for your W. If she won't do it, then you have to think about beginning Plan A (you may be doing that now) or possibly moving on to Plan B. <P>I sense the frustration in your post, and understand it. You don't know where she's coming from, and you want to understand. I think she's coming from the perspective that if you give her the alone time she asks for she can make a decision between you and the OM. If you give her that alone time and don't follow Plan B, she has the best of both worlds. She has you AND the OM in her life. That's why you need to look into Plan B, I think. <P>You are doing the right things, and she doesn't realize right now how much freedom you are giving her. Continue to fight for your marriage, and I hope she comes to her senses soon.

cl - <P>Thanks for popping it back up. I probably do make myself too available, but when I'm not, her thoughts would gravitate toward divorce. When we were together, she would start thinking a little more about us being together.<P>new beginning -<P>I really appreciate your perspective. I am just tired of being blamed for everything that went wrong in our marriage. I do carry much of the responsibility, but she feels that she can blame me totally and not have to deal with any of her problems. <P>At dinner one night three weeks ago, she said something to the effect that she had a lot of problems or she had a lot of reasons that she wasn't a good person or something like that. When I asked her to elaborate, she said that she didn't want to talk about it right then. I understood because we were in a restaurant. But she hasn't brought it up since, just returning to her diatribe against me on the one hand and telling me she loves me on the other.<P>She has insisted that she is going to keep OM as a friend no matter what I want. I have finally told her that I can't control what she does, but as long as everything is on the up-and-up, I won't be a problem.<P>She is going to a symphony concert with him Friday night. I asked if it was just as friends, she said yes. I asked if there was going to be any kind of hanky-panky at all, she said no(I kinda still trust her at this point, but I guess what else would she tell me?).<P>I'm feeling down because I have a W who has a higher priority on dating her boyfriend than trying to work on the marriage. She will always have OM available because she works with him and neither will be changing jobs soon, if ever. He keeps telling her that he will stay her friend even if she decides to stay in the marriage. I wish she would just put him to the test as she continually does me. I'm a man just like he is and I know that confronted with "just friendship" after the emotional affair, he will put on a full-court press to change her mind, and if unsuccessful, drop her like a rock. She doesn't even consider this since he is such a wonderful person....<P>Your points are well taken. I have been using a modified plan "A" since May. I am so hurt and tired that I'm going to use a modified plan "B" when it comes to that. The modification will be to follow thru with the divorce and cut off all contact forever. I've done everything I can do and I need to concentrate my efforts on myself and trying to find someone else to build a life with.

heartpain,<P>Hey!<P>First off, there's no such thing as being friends with the OM. Trust me! Secondly, I also work with the OM and it's hell on earth. In the case of your W, I sense that it isn't hell on earth. Go figure.<P>So, again, I know what I'm talking about.<P>She's smack in the middle of the fantasy stage. You'd might as well face that. She thinks that she can have you both, such as it is. You have some decisions to make. She isn't gonna stop seeing him, it sounds like. She HAS to do that if you are gonna work the marriage out. And that absolutly positively is necessary!! If she can't do that, then I think you've got to work on that modified Plan B you talked about. What exactly is that to you?? <P>I really feel for you because you're just sitting by watching your life pass by and you don't hold any of the cards, it seems. Keep in mind that you actually do. That's where the choices come in.<P>Keep us posted!<BR>

new_beginning -<P>I know you are right, I wanted her to break off all contact with OM from the beginning, but she made it clear that if it came down to a choice, it would be him. So I backed down to try to find other options.<P>My "modified" plan "B" is just to give up and get on with my life without her. I lost a 3-year old son in a prior marriage when I was 26. Since that time, I have had a strong feeling that life is too short to put up with bulls**t from anyone. I'm giving this my best shot, trying to be aware and supportive of her feelings and realize that friendships can be important. He is truly the only friend she has had for years(I thought I was one, but I was mistaken), but I'm not going to spend more months and/or years waiting for her to decide or straighten herself out. We are either going to work on the marriage and within that I will allow her to have some more "alone" time to work on her other issues or we will be divorced by the end of the year.

Heartpain,<P>You're doing all the right things. Remember that!!<P>You have a right to ask your W not to see the OM. Friend or no friend. If he's her ONLY friend, then she's got some other issues that SHE needs to work out. It isn't fair to ask you to stand by and wait.<P>In the end, no matter what happens, remember that you did your best, and you fought the good fight.<P>I'll be watching for your postings... oh, and thanks for your response on "my life, welcome to it" thread. Sometimes I'm wondering if anyone cares... very self-defeating, but that's where I am right now.<P>Talk to you later...

Heartpain I really agree with nb definition of "alone time", yeap that's what it mean most times, unfortunately <BR>From all I read you're doing the right things, but she's having trouble accepting that ( which my H also did, he would ressent the fact that I was doing things right so he could go on justifying the affair. And still, we're fine now, so don't discourage).<BR>I'm ot sure about plan B, however. I guess it depends on how you are feeling with it. Plan B can work very well, but when it backfires it's a bit difficult to undo, don't you think?<BR>Then again, you are the person that knows how your wife reacts, so you'll be the preson to judge that.<BR>Do take care, and feel proud of yourself<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Well, that's it....I asked W last night if she mentioned the joint counselling to her therapist(I had agreed to let her do it as opposed to mine or someone else. W is comfortable with hers and I thought it might make things easier). She said she had and also told her that she(W) didn't want to do that. That was the fourth time she's lied to me about joint counselling. Four times she has told me she would and didn't mean it.<P>I suppose that I have to get used to the fact that it is over. I have tried everything in the book except to insist that she conform to how I feel. I have offered compromises, told her that I was OK with the Sunday night "date" with OM even though I wasn't and so on. She refuses to do anything that isn't exactly the way she wants it. She wants the divorce, but doesn't want it. If I stopped it, she would complain about me flip-flopping just like she did the last time, so I won't try to stop it now. Just let it run its course and in 90+ days, it will be over.<P>I feel like a car that has just been run over hundreds of miles of extremely bad road at high speed. My endurance and patience are now gone.<P>I appreciate the good advice and fellowship I have received here and am not leaving anytime soon. I want to see some happy endings here, damn it!!

I have been there, and will never understand why we will accept being second best. It sucks, we lose all of our self esteme, and suffer for years and years because of it. It may be against MB principles, but given the choice of keeping a few shreds of self respect , or keeping a wife who walks all over me, doesn't respect me or the marriage, lies, cheats, ect.........I will keep the shreds of self respect. There comes a point where too much damage has been done, and then the wife/or husband is expendable....and god willing, can be replaced with someone who knows love when she/he sees it. Just my 2 cents worth...