I thought I have been doing so well...finally feeling better.<p>I decided a couple of weeks ago to let go...try to include him more with the kids.<p>It worked last week...he was really nice at the Cub Scout car races. Then he has been calling all week. Checking on kids schedules, etc. etc.<p>He was supposed to have the kids this weekend. My oldest two had a soccer tournament in KC yesterday and today. He went to the first game, came to Warrensburg, picked up my son and wasn't upset that my 10 year old couldn't go--she was home sick with the flu. They drove back up and caught the second game of the tournament.<p>He called me last night..to discuss the game, how the kids played...just gabbing. I finallly told him I had to go...and he paused and said well, ok. It was weird.<p>Last weekend he and my 16 year old had an awful time. He has emailed her all week trying to "talk" to her to get her to understand. He is still blaming this whole situation on me...and she doesn't buy into it.<p>Anyway, today we had a game in Independence--he came with my son. He walked up and couldn't have been nicer. When the game was over, he asked to drive up with me to the HS girls game 45 minutes away. It was so weird....just like we used to be. I tried to remain calm and pleasant--but my insides were shaking. We stopped and got gas...he checked the tires and oil and paid for everything. Then we got lunch--he insisted on paying for that too. We ate on the way to the game. Part way there, he says "Hon, do you have a napkin over there." Then he was embarassed. My son goes, "guess what mom, dad is doing well this time. He didn't have beer in his apt and his girlfriend isn't there." Jim says "nope we are all alone." Kyle then goes "Where is she dad?" I wanted to crawl under the seat. He mumbled that she is working. I didn't say a thing. It was awkward. Then we drove back to Kaitie's second game. At the end he walked up and said thank you, I had a good time. I don't know what I said. <p>He is trying very hard to reconnect with all of our acquaintances at these events. And they are starting to talk to him again. I think he thinks that if he attends everything and acts like nothing is wrong, everyone will accept him again...and they probably will.<p>I can feel myself falling down into a depression. It feels so good to be a family--it feels so right. I tried to act like my normal old self. It is so sad. I feel so awful about what has happened. We had a good life, good kids---why did he do this to us? How in the world could he give us up for a 28 year old bimbo. God, this is really a tragedy.

Oh Misery, I understand how you feel----after the shock of revealation, the tearing apart of relationships and then the healing of working through it all, the worst part now is the confusion. Why do humans do so much damage to themselves and the ones they love? I have been overwhelmed through the past year with the sadness, too. Adultery is such a tangled web--one reason that God says don't do it. It has such damaging, confusing results. <p>My life has felt like a yo yo with my WS. Before the A, the drinking was his mistress. It took him away from the pressures of life (as it built new ones into his life that he could not see) and now the OW is also a pressure releaser which is digging a deeper hole. I wonder if WS can get out.<p>The saddest part is that some WS want their families and all that family life has to offer but they can't see what part they need to play in making a family unit. It sounds like your H is still very connected to his family but won't do what it takes to rebuild that unit. I struggle understanding the dymanics of that. The cake man syndrome is about the most confusing thing in all this. No one really makes a decision and everyone's life hangs in limbo. <p>My WS has a 27 yr old bimbo, too and he repeatedly tells me the OW and him will never work, he wants to come home and then does absolutely nothing to change things with OW. I guess this stuff takes alot of time to progress where it will finally go. I am not good at waiting things out...How bout you? <p>When will your divorce be final? Who filed?<p>TW

Depression is anger turned inwards.<p>You are extremly and very justifiably ANGRY.<p>You know what? It's ok to get angry. What color is your anger? Mine is black...a black vast swirling, sucking vortex...that I was sure would suck me in and destroy me and everyone I loved if I gave into it.<p>So instead, I suppressed my anger. I sat on it, I denied it, and I pretended everything was fine.<p>The resulting depression (because anger won't ever stay suppressed) nearly destroyed me.<p>My suggestion: Take some time every day, and set it aside as your "anger time". For that time, let it rip. Get a punching bag, hang it in the garage, go out there during your anger time and punch the crap out of it. Scream, yell, do whatever you feel like.<p>When your time is up, put the anger away until tomorrow.<p>Journaling and writing about your anger can help also. You don't have to be rational - all anger isn't rational or justified. But thats OK. Just get it OUT. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Outside of you, it doesn't have the power to turn in on you.

M<p>I know how hard it is to be with your husband and it feels so normal and RIGHT!!!! I see that yoou are as busy as we are on the weekends! Both boys play soccer....and those tournaments are killers!
Play things cool with your H! Sounds like you did just fine today!<p>I was in tears today because my H was trying to tell me he will pay for my car after the support stops and he will look into paying for my one retirement fund. We were at my son's game....and we took the dog for a walk during halftime. It's so hard because he was my best friend. My husband has never said he was unsure of anything when he left. He just kept moving forward without us. The woman is 39 yrs old , I think...sometimes I wish she was 23.....then he would probably dump her. He lives in a beautiful house with her and her son. The pain I feel when he talks about my retirement and how much money I am going to have ...well it just kills me. We made a lot of plans for our retirement....trips we wanted to take and how we wanted to play a lot of golf. I can't take the fact that he is going to be with someone else. I miss him.....but I know that he will never come home.<p>I guess I wanted you to know that i totally understand how you are feeling....but it sounds like your H is coming around a little! <p>Thinking of you!
M

MnM,<p>You know including him more with the kids doesn't mean that you do things as a family. It is including him in all their activiites. He can or not but you don't have to play family.<p>I did this for a long time, while we were living together but really apart & it almost killed me. Of course so of the time I was trying to show that we could be the family we looked like to others.<p>Even we 1st were seperated this time, I hang out with them in the house but you know he never invitied me to eat with them or anything. Now I just ignor him as much as possible when he is here. Mainly I give him the list of instructions, that he has to do with our YS. At game we usually stay a part, chat a little bit but we usually don't sit together. Once at a football game casue YS wanted us to but I don't think I will do it again.<p>Don't do this to yourself Pat if it hurts you so much. Yes, include him, be nice but then go sit with friends, it sounds as if you have lots there.<p>You are stronger than you think. You can do this.

MnM,<p>Rosie is so right about the anger turned inward. When something this profoundly hurtful makes you this angry, it's very hard to express it. And, too boot, I felt I was a bad person to feel or express anger. But is chews you up inside, and manifests in depression of the worse kind.<p>Rosie ... my anger is BLACK too, an endless pit of dispair, frightening to me.<p>One more thing MnM, it never seems to fail as soon as the BS starts to become "Acceptive" of the situation, the WS shows with hat in hand. Uncanny, like they have radar. I've seen it so many times.<p>You're in my thoughts MnM .. always.<p>Jo<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Thanks everyone!!!<p>I was on the other site reading the LONGGGG post from the WS and what he went through to get out of the FOG and back to his marriage.<p>I had never read the whole thing....and it gives probably false hope to someone like me. I would have liked nothing more than my marriage to have worked--that is why I stayed with it so long. I have to fight the urge not to want him back. I miss my life though...and am sick that we are going through this again.<p>Tosses Wave: I agree. He wants his family and his mistress...and he wants to be friends with me. I can't do that tho...and I know it.<p>Feeling So Alone: I also miss our future together. We had so many retirement plans. I think we even could have survived his being furloughed with the airlines--if he hadn't gone this road. We have had a rough busy life in the AF. We did a lot of neat things tho. But this was supposed to have been a time for us. We have our retirement home, two of our kids are close to leaving for college. We would have been doing well financially. Why did he do this.....I still can't answer that question.<p>Bramble Rose: I do have anger...altho I am really trying to let it go. I am doing better with it. But I can't visualize a future without him...and that makes me so sad. I want to grow old with him. I want to watch our kids grow up. I want my family...my heart is still breaking. When does the pain stop. <p>Sing, I know I have to be strong. I am trying to forge ahead...and I know he doesn't know how to love me. I keep thinking I am getting stronger--and then wham...I am back down in the dumps. Thank God for you all here. My girls just got back from the bus. THey came in and just hugged me. Guess we were the talk of the games by being together. Meg and Mandy were both shocked. Meg said she was speechless...they both said maybe he is realizing what he has lost. I don't know if I believe that. At the last game, he moved away from me--didn't want to stand by me. Guess he was feeling guilty. I do think I did pretty good by trying to remain happy and neutral today. If he only knew how devastated I feel now. God, please give me strength.

Resilient...thank you.<p>You always have such good things to say. I don't know how to get through this....I am sitting here crying...and I feel so awful.<p>I got a new lawyer on Thursday....he was like a breath of fresh air. He was so NORMAL. THat other guy was such an abusive jerk. I don't know why I stayed with him so long. This lawyer actually listened. But his last question to me was "why did you stay with him so long?" I didn't know what to say. Why do I still love him. He has intentionally hurt me so many times. Over the last few months, I thought I was doing better....understanding how he didn't treat me right, how he didn't value me. Why then, after being able to see that--does one afternoon make me feel like this again. I feel like my heart is going to break in two. And I can't tell anyone, because they all think he is horrible--and he has been treating me horribly--so why do I still love him. The honest truth is, I have loved him, I have always loved him and I don't know if I will ever quit loving him. I definitely need some psychiatric help. He is bad for me. I sound crazy don't I?????

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by miserynmissouri:
But his last question to me was "why did you stay with him so long?" I didn't know what to say. Why do I still love him. He has intentionally hurt me so many times. Over the last few months, I thought I was doing better....understanding how he didn't treat me right, how he didn't value me. Why then, after being able to see that--does one afternoon make me feel like this again. I feel like my heart is going to break in two. And I can't tell anyone, because they all think he is horrible--and he has been treating me horribly--so why do I still love him. The honest truth is, I have loved him, I have always loved him and I don't know if I will ever quit loving him. I definitely need some psychiatric help. He is bad for me. I sound crazy don't I?????<hr></blockquote><p>Well, MnM, you're asking yourself the same questions I've been asking myself for quite some time now. It's too bad you have to see him, because the way that I have detached is by not allowing my x-H contact, his relationship "to" me is TOXIC. And I have to accept that. But even with no contact, it's still a struggle, just not nearly as hard as you have it, Hon.<p>Same here ... I still love him, I miss him soooo much. But he isn't the same man.<p>You don't need a psychiatrist, Honey. You're attachment to your H is understandable, you two have been together for longer than you were with your family of origin, it's normal to feel these feelings.<p>But ... you, being very much like me, the idea that we have stayed with them even tho they have disrespected us more than once has brought me to the realization I have co-dependency issues with the relationship.<p>I was reading a book this evening, after crying in the tub .... it's called "Codependent No More", by Melody Bettie. It's very good. My therapist recommended it a while back. So far it's pretty right-on regarding describing how I've been feeling. I have yet to get to the part where they tell me what to do about it. I'm hoping it will offer practical advice, because this is so DAMN hard to get thru.<p>You'll get thru this latest contact of H, MnM. And each time it will get a teensy bit easier. It just takes time. Since your H was so "nice" to you, and since he caught you off guard this time. I say next time try and prepare and warn yourself before you know you're going to see him. Maybe that will help.<p>Prayers Honey ... you've been awesomely strong.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

I read your story, and yes it sounds like he misses his life... he is also cakeman... cakeman, ... cakeman... but maybe he sees what he is doing wrong, and his mistakes... maybe with time... he will see how wrong he is. I am praying for you.<p>Hugs, HONEY

Resilient,<p>You are so right...I must be codependent. I don't want to be that tho...I just want a normal loving relationship...and I am very disappointed that my marriage wasn't what it should have been.<p>I have read that book a while ago. I guess I should read it again. I feel lost without my Husband. I have my life with my kids....but it is like this huge part of me is missing. I don't know how to close that hole and be happy again. I really have been trying.<p>I do do better when I don't have to see him. Unfortunately, now that he is out of work--he is here trying to reconnect with us. It makes it really hard. His Ow was with him last Sunday through Friday---and we didn't hear from him until Friday afternoon. He only cares about us when she is not around. The kids know it and so do I. <p>Well, enough crying...I am going to go fix something to eat and get myself back together. Thank you all for listening. I can't tell you how much you all mean to me...thank you for caring. Pat

And MnM, where you said how hard it is to make yourself NOT hope, I know that's normal too.<p>You and I worked so hard when we experienced the infidelity before, and to have it happen again, makes you somewhat feel if you conquered it once perhaps it can be overcome again. I have had the same feelings. They're hard to fight off.<p>And BTW ... my attorney asked me precisely the same question. All I could say was I loved him and I believed in marriage. <p>I'm so relieved to hear you got another attorney. I could barely believe how assanine the other one ones, borderline abusive. Just a jerk.<p>You're going to be okay, MnM. I promise, you will be.<p>Best,
Jo

Thanks Honey for your prayers...I really need them tonight. It has been a long time since I have felt this bad.<p>I don't know if he came back...if I could do it again. I have worked through this so many times. The last time he sobbed and told me it would never happen again. You know how hard it is to go through recovery. He knew what he has done to me in his past relationships and yet he chose to do it again. Not only did he choose to do it...but he has tried to tear me apart to everyone who would listen. That is not the first time he has tried to do that either. <p>I do think we both love each other...but I don't think no matter how much I love him or the kids love him...I don't think he loves himself. And I think he will continually try to find someone to make him feel better for awhile. Don't get me wrong...he has a big ego....but there is something within him that he can't handle...so he tries through work, alcohol or other women. I really think that is the truth. I would love to have my marriage work...but I don't think he is capable of commiting to me. That is the sad reality. I think at this point, the only person that could possibly save my marriage is God. I am still praying tho.

Hugs MnM...<p>I don't have anything to add... you've gotten some terrific words of wisdom!<p>So you have my hugs and prayers,
Cali

Misery, thanks for posting your feelings cause I am feeling so much of what you are feeling today. I, too, just read the LLOOOONNNGGG post of [H] and I am struggling with the fact that it may be giving me false hope. It is important, though to be reminded that we need to be repectful and kind no matter what WS has done. <p>I read Copendent No More many years ago and I know that was me 15 years ago but I am slowly moving away from being that way.....only person left that I am sooooo codependent with is WS so I guess God is working that out of my life, too cause I am starting to feel very unconcerned about his feelings and well-being when before A all I knew was how he felt (or I thought I knew). I had little energy to express and get my feelings out and I only worried about how things made him feel. It made me emotionally constipated and contributed to my inability to be loving. And we know the rest of that story....<p>If your WS is a drug or alcohol abuser like mine, it makes me wonder if they are totally powerless to mend and recover from the pain they cause themselves and others. I see remorse in my WS and a desire to come home but there is this powerlessness that scares me. I wonder if WS is capable of recovering now that he is more wounded and damaged then before. <p>I keep asking myself, too, why do I still love him and how can I want back the person who can potentially destroy me emotionally. A part of him is so hard to deal with but another part of him is so decent and easy to be around.<p>I have often wondered about the book Women Who Love Too Much.....I may have to read that some day.<p>I think keeping a distance from WS is got to be the healthiest thing to do.<p>TW

You must decide for yourself pat, just some thoughts to keep in mind. Many are the dark and murky ways of the human psyche. You may be a challenge, a prize to be won, your H has demonstrated almost 30 years of narcissitic behaviour, the likelihood of him changing and you living happily ever after is almost nil. He wants to keep you in reserve, so if he "needs" you (gets dumped by bimbo, gets disabled, whatever) you are available, and you are a challenge to have power over, to be won....do not be weak pat, you have a mind use it, emotions won't work for this stuff. Stay away from H, get your head straight, you have a lot of life ahead of you, and there are worthy men out there. If you relent, and give him yet another chance, make sure you have a good plan, and make him work very very hard, for a very long time, it is the only way you have a prayer of actually assessing any real change....keep in mind that if the bimbo fails, he will be back in a heartbeat, all over you, remember he knows how to play you like a fiddle, and you are very very vulnerable. You have been given a chance at finally having a safe life, not a fantasy with a user (even if he is your user, he is still a user), keep working on yourself pat, there is a whole world waiting for you, as soon as you can pull yourself from the pit, don't let anyone pull you back down in it.<p>btw, if this kind of feedback is distressing (I won't encourage lost causes, over healthy moviong on), I will remove it, just ask me. You are a good woman pat, you just lost yourself, that is how these kinds of men work, you will be ok.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

No, Thanks SNL...your comments have helped me keep straight so many times.<p>I just have a hard time...I just hate what has happened to me and the kids....and I miss what we could have been. And when he is nice--it is so easy to want it to work. <p>I am going to be strong this time...it is just so damn hard and I would give everything to have it be ok. <p>I feel better after venting here tonight...it is great to have people to talk to to get these feelings out. I don't feel as panicky as I did when I first got home. I do miss him tho--but you are right--I don't think he will change. It was interesting being with him today. The traffic got to him today...and Kyle did too by kicking his seat when driving. You could tell he was getting wound up--but he contained it around me today. Amazing, a few months ago we would have heard cussing and swearing and seen road rage. He can do it when he wants to. I wonder if his OW has seen his bad side yet. Kaitie and Kyle both noticed it today. He does have a good side.....but the worst comes out when he feels he has control. <p>Even knowing all this I am very vulnerable...and it would be hard to not accept him back. I am definitely stronger this time tho--and I am in a better postion with work situation and my kids are older and have been very supportive. It is just getting over this hurdle.<p>My one fear truthfully, is finding someone worthy to love. I am 47 with 4 kids. The odds aren't great here. Not only that--it would be really hard for me on so many levels to start over again. I can't even imagine doing that. Time will tell I guess.<p>My H would really have to show me something that would indicate serious change in order for me to even consider allowing him back into my life. I don't think he could do that. I don't think he will ever be able to admit that he made a mistake. He has lost a lot tho. And I know he misses our family life. I think my family and friends would disown me if I took him back this time after all the pain and heartache. It has been a miserable year...and it has affected more than just me and him this time. God, I wish I could change it tho. Thanks SNL

You have gotten lots of support and advice already, so why I'm here I don't know.<p>I think that I have a little different take on things, and because of my situation with [censored] accident and all I wish that sometimes I could have a little time with him like you guys had the afternoon of the games.<p>Because of [censored]'s brain injury the [censored] I knew and loved is gone. Forever. We have no chance of ever sitting with the kids at a game or dinner and feeling like a family. Sure, he is physically there, and sometimes even comes off as normal for a period of time, but the person I loved is truly gone.<p>I can understand the pain and hurt that your [censored] has caused you because we went thru all that before the accident. It sucks, and I won't deny you that for a second.<p>The one thing that I wish I had though - and now I'm gonna cry. The one thing I wish I could have is just a little bit of him back as a friend. I know he is an @ss. I know he made crappy choices. But somewhere underneath the fog and the brain injury I like to think is just a tiny bit of my Scott. Somewhere that one day I could reconnect with him just for a minute or two. If only we could go camping together for one last time - even if he were involved with someone else. <p>I guess I just miss my best friend tonight. I miss him even though he is over here for a few hours and is sitting right on my couch in the living room. <p>Maybe you could look at some of those moments you get as a little tiny blessing. Just for me.<p>Elizabeth
who will now furiously dig through her purse for a xanax or 2.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: justthewife ]</p>

I know that feeling....I am so sorry for your pain.<p>I think I feel so bad tonight, because he was halfway decent today...and I miss that. I miss being a family. I miss having us all go home after a day of soccer as a family. I miss discussing the kids. I miss working on our house and plans for the future. I miss my life with him.<p>I hate seeing him drive off with my son. A family shouldn't be going through this...it hurts us all.....What is the purpose of all this pain?
I don't know....It was nice today...but it just brought back all the pain and hurt.

I guess it just sucks to be us tonight.<p>I found my xanax. I'll be sound asleep in half an hour. <p>None of it makes sense. It was never supposed to happen - to any of us. <p>I miss all the stupid mundane things. Going for a walk. Taking a drive. Deciding not to cook and just go out for dinner instead. Renting a movie. <p>We'll be ok. Maybe not real soon. But we'll be ok. <p>Unless of course I become an ax murderer and have to go to jail. They have computers in jail right?
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Elizabeth