Can a person change oneself's character and identity?<p>I ask because W had A because of mainly, me being the way I am.<p>I am:
1) very serious about life, finances, etc...
2) very unaffectionate
3) very untalkative, very little communication
4) very unpassionative
5) not a good husband
6) not a good father
7) very oblivious to EN and what W's are (we have filled out the questionaire)
8) never lived one day at a time, am always looking down the road, sometimes years with certain situations.<p>Can a person, even if he wants to, make a complete 180? I am now in the process of trying and want to say I am making progress, but I'm not sure my W would say the same thing. I'm saying it feels like a lot to me but maybe just a little to her.<p>If a person can, what are the down's to it. Will I still be the successful person that I have made myself or will the changes affect the way I view my working habits and how I handle other things. (I have noticed a few already and so has my employer). Will that aspect of my life come tumbling down with the aspects of my marriage getting better? Do a person have to trade?<p>I would like to be the H my W wants, the father my kids need and I want the person who is successful. But I sometimes feel like I am having to choose and at this point in my life, don't know if I'm choosing correctly. Again, thinking about down the road. What will todays choices impact the future?<p>If any of you have gone through this, input would be extremely helpful.

wrestlingwithlove,<p>You've chosen an appropriate screen name for the questions you're struggling with. Those are my struggles as well. Your list described me to a Tee, at least the way I was 15-20 years ago. I think I'm quite a bit different now-- so the answer to your question is that people can and do change. <p>Identity <p>This is the real issue here. I thought my identity, my whole being, was tied up in how far I progressed in my chosen career. I assumed that my W understood that before we got married. She came second. Of course, I rationalized that that's what men were supposed to do and everyone knows that, right? A man who didn't succeed would be a failure and who wants to be married to a failure?<p>When you work 60-80 hours per week there really isn't any energy for anything else, even if you wanted to do it. All of my waking hours were spent thinking of work, whether I was there or not. Even when I was home I wasn't really there. <p>My daughter recently found a work ID for my W from our first year of marriage. She had long hair. I don't have any memory of her ever looking like that... she had short hair in our wedding pictures and has always had short hair (or medium length) as far as I remember... but pictures don't lie...<p>That was my identity back then... I identified with my career. If I had to choose I would have taken career over marriage. It wasn't that I was trying to exercise control or anything sinister like that, my W was clearly the one who ran our lives-- except when anything collided with my career. I tried to do what she wanted in everything else, just didn't give her much of me.<p>Can a person, even if he wants to, make a complete 180? <p>I think 180 refers more to specific behavior rather than feelings or attitudes. <p>My own attitudes and feelings have changed over the years, but very slowly. My W made a concious effort to suck me into our family. Insisting that I spend time with our kids and do activities with them. This seemed like the right thing to do anyway, but without urging from her it was certainly easier to be by myself doing my own thing.<p>You are right, these things have their costs. To go to school programs requires skipping mornings at work, soccer/boy scouts in the evening meant that I couldn't get as much work done at night as I used to. <p>Clearly, if you work less, you produce less and people notice. When you tell them why you didn't do something as quickly as you promised they seem to "understand", but....<p>There are tradeoffs!<p>I used to think I was superman and could do everything I was doing at work PLUS the new family responsibilities I took on. Does not compute. I've been struggling with these tradeoffs for about 10 years, and only realized in the last 8 months or so that I have to conciously make choices. I wasn't doing a good job with family or work and even worse at marriage. Really, the candle only has two ends.<p>So... I'm where you are, trying to decide what I really want and how to get there and feeling that I need to make decisions really fast or disaster is going to strike. I'm just not ready to make those decisions yet. I guess that's why they call it a mid life "crisis".<p>I have many colleagues who have successful careers of the type I wanted, but they seem to be lacking most of the other dimensions of life. I'm not sure I really want to be "them". I just find it hard to get out of my head the idea that I'm a failure if I don't achieve career success. <p>I'm trying to decide whether I want to move back into my career or get honest and break away from it.<p>I just don't think there are any easy (or quick) answers.<p>As you can see, this is a huge topic for me. I'll certainly be checking up on this thread and probably have more to say later, especially if you have questions. I'm going to be thinking about this for the next couple of days (like I haven't been thinking about it for the past several months? - LOL). <p>Jeffers

Jeffers,<p>Thanks for the input. When you said "mid-life crisis" I almost sh*t. Reason being, I'm only 28 and I feel 45. It's true, the only time I ever felt that I dated a person as mature as I was when I was 21-22 and she was 33, with 2 kids. That was the only time I felt like maturity was the same. BUT, I dont necessarily feel it is MLC.<p>Growing up in a 1200 pop. town in the midwest I saw people who seemed to have great marriages and terrible finances, and of course the other way around to. It was kinda stuck in my head that you either had one or the other or just a touch of both (ridin' the fence so to say, not sure which way you were gonna fall).<p>My employer has noticed a change in me since about a month before D-Day but especially after D-day. I have worked 8+ years at this place and I have never taken a vacation, unless you count 6 business days for 3 funerals in the same week. I have worked until 2 in the morning before, which no one else at this establishment has worked past 10 before. I in the past would always stay that little bit extra late to accomplish something that needed to or/and come in a little earlier to do the same thing. Now, he's said that I seem more like I would rather go pick up the kids and put off work till tomorrow. It's true, can't deny that. (NOTE: employer and fellow employees do not know of W's A, they have an idea, but they are not sure if it's true. BUT, by the way I am acting, they figure it is.)<p>Working those 60-80 hr. weeks does take a toll on the marriage. Myself, I would come home, grab an 18 pack or more and just sort of zone everything going on around me out. This is also where the problem of affection and communication comes in. I was seriously putting my W's needs second. Actually her EN's were more like 100, but problem was there was nothing between 1 & 100. W was, again, seriously put off. Yes, I do accept a very huge part of the marraige turning bad, but I do not accept responsibility for her A.<p>I have also changed over the years. I went from the person who drank heavily 6-7 nights a week when we first met to 4-5 nights, to 2-3 nights. She towards the end asked me not to drink so heavily when I did. I didn't drink to drink, I drank to get drunk. Again, not meeting my W's EN's. I as of Nov. 30, 2001 haven't had a drink. Funny thing in a way, it's been very easy. Still have liquor in the house, wife still has a drink in front of me. Doesn't bother me at all.<p>I also was a person who went out 3-4 nights a week with the guys from work and then on the weekends, go fishing during the first three years of being together. For about a year there, if I came home before 9:30 at night, my W would ask if something's wrong or if I was alright. Pretty sad now that I think about it. I did cut that out and along with toning down on the drinking I thought I was making progress as to spend more time with her and I "thought" I was being a better husband, OBVIOUSLY I WAS WRONG. I just delayed it for a while.<p>As I write this I feel like I was the only one to f-up the marriage, that is totally and absolutely not true. W had a lot of factors in it getting bad also. But, and a big but, in order to make the marriage better I feel I have to change more than her.<p>Another note about why I am the way I am: I don't know how to be affectionate, passionate, lovy-dovy, etc... I never seen it in my childhood as I grew up. I come from a time and family that you bottled-up your feelings (being male) because that's the way it was.<p>Jeffers, thanks again.<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: wrestlingwithlove ]<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: wrestlingwithlove ]</p>

Well, I guess there's at least three of us that fit this mold... probably more but the rest are too busy working to get on the MB discussion board! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I've been a little more successful in changing myself than Jeffers. I was definitely an extreme personality type. In my career, I've taken personality tests several times (Myers-Briggs) and remember consistently scoring a a "zero" on attention to feelings. I was actually kind of proud of that at one point! It sure came back to haunt me though, as my marriage spiralled downwards. In my case, it was me that ended up having the EA... Turns out I did have feelings and EN's after all, they were just so repressed I didn't know how to communicate them or get my W to satisfy them. <p>Over the past few years, I have learned that the key is changing BEHAVIOR, as Jeffers said. If you can learn new behaviors and practice them till they become HABITs, you will have changed. Personality, your natural inclination to act a certain way, may not change, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to act differently once you have identified your weaknesses. It's like someone who's very introverted learning how to be a good public speaker. Practice makes perfect. <p>You can do it. The way you do it is the same way you do everything else, through a good plan, rigourously executed and backed by all your anal retentive attention to detail and your obsessive-compulsive self-discipline! I literally scheduled everything in my Palm Pilot: "Email wife to say you love her", etc. If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid!<p>The "tradeoff" is that you won't be able to spend every conscious moment working like a slave for a financial entity that will never fully appreciate what you have given up! What are you working for, after all? FYI, Dr H says that, in his experience, a relationship requires at least 15 hours a week of undivided attention. That's really not a lot! You can still find time to work more than most other people. If that's not enough to be successful, then you probably need to rethink either your definition of success or your plan for achieving it.

Wreslingwithlove,
I have some of the same problems,but with a different focus.
It seems to me your job is your mistress, mine was the house we built. I planned, designed, worked on it and redid things others had done that weren't quite right.
My actions told my wife a different story than my words. If I would have given 10% more attention,(taken from the house) she would have been fine.
Most of the time she had to be angry at me to get my attention. Nothing like re-enforcing negative behavior.
Your deepest regrets in life will be over your the time you spend with your wife, & kids and how good your health is. House, job, money don't come close.
Like giving up any bad habit, plan for it. Do it, and keep doing it till it's a good habit.<p>D

I'm starting to feel like this is a male issue/thing. How about you females out there?<p>
BUMP

Can a person change there basic temperament...No. It is a genetic reality of who you are, every bit as immutable as your body type, metabolic processes, intelligence...etc. If one tries to change who they are (implying they think there is something wrong with them) one will suffer various psychological disorders, including depression. That is not to say one cannot lead an imbalanced life, and should not do some self-intropsection to understand why they behave as they do, and find alternate ways to be be who they are that balance their life in a more desireable way. For example some people value order, a lot of hard purposeful work, and predictable results....but if they do this 100+ hrs a week, they risk not having relationships with other people (or a spouse) and lose out on stuff that may be a benefit to them. On the other hand if they try to turn themself into a 9-5'er and um..I dunno, maybe socialize a lot in idle chitchat and hanging out because their spouse is a people person, and needs a lot of people stimulation, they are gonna fail, and be miserable. Neither is wrong, just don't fit. Anyways you get the drift. The key is not what other people tell you you should do...but understanding who you are, and what options you can choose from to be who you are....as far as marriage you need to be with someone who values who you are, not who they want you to be, or who they think you should be...in other words, someone whose temperament, coping skills, and expectations are similar to yours. Opposites do attract, but they make very difficult, unhappy marriages usually....despite the anecdotal stories to the contrary.<p>1) very serious about life, finances, etc...<p>not a bad thing, those who are not serious enough are often 1 paycheck away from disaster. On the other hand dieing with a million dollars in the bank, and never taking a vacation would be questionable.<p>2) very unaffectionate<p>That is a value judgement, and depends on who you are interacting with, there are also many ways of showing affection, not all physical by any means. However, if you are not the type to say...um be physically affectionate much, it would be stressful to marry someone who is a touchy/feely person and needs a bunch.<p>3) very untalkative, very little communication<p>Again, depends...but if you are secretive, or controlling about this, that is probably a problem. Humans are a gregarious species, and all need interaction, not needing much is probably an issue needing to be looked at.<p>4) very unpassionative<p>If you mean physically, sameo sameo...but you sound pretty passionate about your work..ya see? The trick is to form attachments with people who share your passions (and you theirs).<p>5) not a good husband<p>Have to define a good H first. But indeed being a H implies you are gonna meet someone elses needs, whether you "want" to or not....if you can't or won't, you should not torment yourself or partner, face the mistake, and amicably part...sadder but wiser.<p>6) not a good father<p>Kids need nurturing, if you can't/won't do that, that is a problem, solvable (maybe with surrogates to help you), but there is quite a range of nurturing possible...do you love your kids, and do they know it? That is the basics.<p>7) very oblivious to EN and what W's are (we have filled out the questionaire)<p>If on purpose, that is just plain selfish. Not facing responsibilities is a choice.<p>8) never lived one day at a time, am always looking down the road, sometimes years with certain situations.<p>We would still be living in caves if no one thought that way [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

snl,
You are right on with a few of those things (now that I've seen SOME light).<p>Your # 3 response: IC aske me if I could really live like a hermit. I answered YES, without really having to think about it, and now I would still say YES.<p>#2 W is touchy-touchy.<p>#8 I said that because I'm always hearing "take it one day at a time".

Your # 3 response: IC aske me if I could really live like a hermit. I answered YES, without really having to think about it, and now I would still say YES.<p>snl...Then you should, provided you feel comfortable with it, and do not display any overt mental health symptons...there is a range, and you may indeed be far to one side...I doubt you'd truly want no human contact, if so, I would question your mental health...but you may only want limited amounts, and that is ok...long as you aren't the unabomber or some such...but the thing is, there are women who would be ok with that, there is a mate for everyone, if they want one. I know of one couple been married 50 years, speaks only a few words a week to each other, but they make it work.<p>#2 W is touchy-touchy.<p>snl..That is a fundamental area of conflict if you can't or won't meet that need... but if it isn't you, you shouldn't fake it IMO...the thing is MB suggests you can be "trained" to become like that...I dunno, I don't think so...but I do agree one should take some risk and explore things before assuming you aren't able to do that.<p>#8 I said that because I'm always hearing "take it one day at a time".<p>snl...There are all sorts of platitudes, cliches, homolies in the world..and they are helpful to draw attention to issues, but they solve nothing in themselves. One does need to make long range plans IMO, but one also needs to learn to deal with today alos...all about balance, it is always about balance.... that is what normal is, that is what good mental health is...balance.

WWL <p>okay, you asked for it.... a woman's perspective.... YES!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think you are over-analyzing just a bit... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>yes, I believe in change... But, here's the trick... start small... don't think of the huge picture... Don't think of the A, and who did what to bring about the situation... Think about just a few little things you can start to change, then go from there... <p>IE..., you said you were a serious person... How about making a date with your wife to somewhere that you would NEVER go... Bumper cars, bumper boats, or HEY ( I may use this one ) how about getting down and wresting with her in jello!!!!!!!!!! you gotta love that one... <p>Just take one or two of her ENs, and TRY something new... Get out of analyzing the situation and just try it... I'll give you an example... <p>I am sooooooooooooo lonely in our marriage.... my H and I were HS sweet hearts, married now for 12 years.... We live together with 2 children, but we live as roommates... We have negleted the love between us for Soooooooo long, that it almost felt like we could never light any kind of spark........ so, anyway, last week - out of hte blue, i wrote him this kinky love letter on the email. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] He was all out of wack, didn't expect that from me at all. I have NEVER dared to say some of those things to him that I wrote in the note. Blew him AWAY!!! It was sooooo much fun! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>anyway, start with one EN, and work from there... push yourself out of yourself, if you know what I mean..... Show some affection, the touchy-feely kind to her... the kind of little change you just have to force yourself into and just take her by total SUPRISE! <p>It WILL BE quite uncomfortable at first, but just do small little things along the way..... in time, look back and you will see that people can and do change. <p>GOOD LUCK, and please try the jello thing & report [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

sorry, I have a PS - [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>on another note... you don't want to change the fundamentals about yourself... you have some wonuerful qualities!!!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>1) very serious about life, finances, etc...
That is a very GOOD thing, and necessary in many instances...
2) very unaffectionate
People can learn to be more affectionate; watching someone change from unaffectionate to affectionate is a real turn on for women!!!! you could be this great challenge for your W!
3) very untalkative, very little communication
We have this same problem... Maybe you just need to force this a bit, use your differences to spark humor, etc... ie, I tell my H that they need to replace Clint Eastwood with a more sensitive guy, Patrick S., John Travolta YEAH! that sparks all kinds of debate...
4) very unpassionative
do the JELLO thing [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
5) not a good husband
Well, you are here working on it, so you cannot be all that bad.
6) not a good father
you want to work at it, we can all do better...
7) very oblivious to EN and what W's are (we have filled out the questionaire)
start small...
8) never lived one day at a time, am always looking down the road, sometimes years with certain situations. JELLO [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 25, 2002: Message edited by: jamie 210 ]</p>

jamie 210,<p>First off, this jello thing must be a fetish. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have started small (in my mind).<p>Let me explain: because of W's lying over the years I withdrew big time!!!! I didn't give her a kiss for over 1 1/2 years unless I was tore up drunk. You could still probably count those times on 1 hand missing a thumb. I probably didn't tell her I loved her for longer.<p>Within a week or 2 after D-day I started doing those things and at first they were extremely uncomftable. Now they seem to be becoming more habit. Yes I do need to think about it every now and then, to do it. But it is becoming more habit.<p>I just ask myself though, if I change so much, will I be me still, the way I'd like to be even though it is obvious my W wouldn't want me to be the way I was before her A.<p>ps thanks for the perspective from a woman

Another woman out here raising her hand!!!<p>It's very possible to change..my partner has, and it was the little things that made a difference.<p>He is in a profession which requires him to be on call 24/7..no partner for a couple years...shoot, I wasn't just on the back burner..I never even made it to the kitchen.<p>Like you he felt uncomfortable with displays of affection, but found out that a little card now and then, a simple phone call telling me he was thinking of me..shoot that made my day.<p>He is a good conversationalist, but like you, when he finally got home..just wanted to zone with his paper...so now he'll read it at the kitchen table and share some highlights with me.<p>It really is the little stuff...sometimes all a kid needs from his Dad is to just be there. Take him with you on a trip to the store..kids want what we all want...to be wanted and loved.<p>Like your wife, I lied..I said many times "it's OK"..when it really wasn't....figured if he loved me he'd KNOW what I wanted. <p>Little things..that's the ticket.
T

just bumping

WWL,<p>Does working 500-600 hours a month count??? Yup, I used to do that in my mid-20's. Got paid the same if it was 160 hours a month also. Don't you just love pride???. Of course I wasn't married, surprise. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now I am much older, will still work an all-nighter or so, work weekends, BUT, I also coach the kids sports teams, go to their sporting events, HS, college, etc.<p>What changed?? Well, success helped some. But what really changed was perspective.<p>You asked a question can someone really change. You got detailed response from SnL. I won't attempt to provide such a list. But here is what I do know.<p>1. You will change whether you want to or not. It is called aging.<p>2. You will learn about your mid-40's that the world is going to H in handbasket. <p>Don't worry every one learns that about that age, sometimes younger. Your father learned it, your grandfather learned it, your great grandfather, ... Why? Because you eventually realize how things work. <p>Your post about your boss noticing your "lack of work ethic" is a clue. <p>You see you are working circles around everyone else, but if you "drop" to their level of work, YOU will be slacking off. Are you getting a clue?? You are being used and they appreciate what you do only in so far as you make them much more money than you make.<p>WWL, the real point I am trying to make, is that I like SnL don't think you can change the basic core you. The appreciation for hard work. The gift of being able to do it. You appreciation for planning and financial soundness.<p>What can change is your perspective. For example you are measuring your success by the hours you work. Dumb, very dumb. You should be measuring it by how much you make per hour. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I suspect it is lower than most of your contemporaries. <p>Second, when you get older and you have made money, you will realize you aren't a success either. Why? Someone else will make more. Or you will come to realize that if money is your goal you will never get enough.<p>But, most importantly when you get older you will realize that the "smart guys", the "successful guys" have figured out how to balance life. They have good happy families, they make good money, they enjoy their jobs, and the enjoy their families. They have acheived freedom from worrying about money, loneliness, and have friends as well as a life companion.<p>So my question to you is: What is your definition of success? If it is narrowly defined by how many bills you can stack up, don't worry about your W's affair. It won't be an affair too much longer. She will divorce you and remove about 1/2 of the stack of bills you have accumulated. If it is more broadly defined and includes your W and kids, then you need to address yourself to their needs.<p>You will find that through practice you will like the touch of another human being especially if she is female and your W. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You will find many pleasures in life.<p>It truely is your choice to define success and then act on your plan to achieve it. But, just like working lots of hours all success comes only with commitment, focus, and effort.<p>The choice of how you will be, how you will interact with the world, and how successful you will be comes down to you.<p>I made my choices and you will never see 500 hours on a monthly timesheet again in my life time. But, I do work long hours because I founded and run a corporation. I solved the contact time with my W issue by having her work for me part time. She likes the flexibility, that we eat lunch together often, but she is not tied down 8 hours a day.<p>Point of this, there are always solutions if you are flexible enough to look and design something that meets all of your goals. I will say that your items #2-#7 are your choices and not good ones. Your items #1 and #8 are actually gifts that many people do not have. But you are not using them as gifts, you are using them like a big stone around your neck to mess up the rest of your life.<p>A person with #1 and #8 should be able to plan and focus their lives more productively than you seem to have done. But, then again it all comes down to how you define success.<p>Hope something I said helps.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

WWL, <p>yes, it must be some type of fetish or fantasy thing that only comes to life somewhere after 9:00 p.m. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seriously, I did not mean to come accross insensitive, off the subject, off balance, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] etc...... <p>you have many terrific qualities, and, no, I would not expect that you or your wife would wish for you to become someone fundamentally different than who you are... Just trying to be more affectionate, communicative with her... it does seem so just FAKE at first, and then routine.... but slowly & surely those little things will build up and not seem to difficult - like a 180...<p>I know what it feels to be hurt and betrayed... I know what it feels like to respond to a lying person, only to feel that if you could only change yourself that somehow you could reverse the way you S feels about you...<p>Truth is, the A had probably very, very much to do with her own insecurities about herself... because she needs to be built up, admired, reminded of who she is and why she is loved, her ENs filled.... <p>I'm not saying that she was justified (not at all...) or that if you would have just thought of the JELLO thing before (sorry, had to throw that in... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ), that it would have haulted the A....<p>Truth is, probably some other woman who was not having her ENs met by her H would probably find you and all that YOU are quite a challenge and attractive... <p>an A is an incredibly selfish thing--- the ultimate in selfish acts....... building a relationship after an A is quite the contrary... The extreme opposite... It literally takes all you have, and then some... <p>we love you, WWL man [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] and feel your pain... I'm sorry if I got off on a tangent last night...<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: jamie 210 ]</p>

Jamie 210,<p>Insensitive, NO..<p>Truthful, VERY LIKELY!<p>A had to do with W's insecurities....Did you ever hit it on the money!<p>IC did state, "Even if I had given my W all the affection and met her EN'd, an A probably would have happened anyway", because of the abuse in her childhood. But you see, I wasn't doing the above so in fact I did give her a good old push off the cliff to get her goin' in the direction of an A.<p>Worse things, LB'ed big time last night over something so piddaly, I cant even mention what it was. Almost felt like D-Day all over again.<p>Dont know why I said that, just did I guess.

Wow, I'm impressed. This post has a lot of meat in it!!! I have just scanned through it and well, you 'guys' & gals seem to have a lot of insight. 'specially impressed with the male perspective. Except for SNL and JL of course, they are usually good for a long and thoughtful post. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't have much to add (now that's a shocker!!!) but I would like to see this discussion keep going. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

WWL,<p>Thanks for the reply [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, I know of the cliff you mentioned, and how easy it is to just PUSH 'em right off! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] How easy it is or would be to follow suit... hum.... oh well...<p>And, if you later feel like talking about the pidally thing, I'm sure, unfortunately, a lot of us can relate... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

jamie 210,<p>Dont do it!, if that's where your thinking is at with following. I had that thought a lot at first and my W even told me to (can you believe that?) What would that change or help? Her response-so we'd be even and I wouldn't get off her a$$ about her A. Like I really want to add gas to a fire. Also, can the marriage handle another situation to deal with?<p>Pidally thing: A bank statement was missing that was just there and I started tearing the house apart to find it. Under the mattress in the dead center of the bed was a card. It was dated Oct. 30 from a female friend stating that she's there for my W in her difficult times and if it makes you happy, its OK with me (was friend talking about OM and A?). Well, W has stated that the A was in sep-oct. Its not really "the card" that is bothersome, but my W said she told nobody of her A and it seems obvious that someone else did know. But the real part that got me was: W says she has told me everything and has been honest about everyhting since D-day or shortly there after (couple days). You see, there was a receipt inside the card from her IC service dated the third week of Feb. So you see, the card was put there after the date of IC. It bothers me because it to me seems as if she was hiding the card (when she says she has nothing more to hide). Then she said she didn't really care if I found it (why was it in the middle of the bed under the mattress?) Then she said it was private (again, I dont think W is in a position to hide anything, regardless of what it is). W said it's nothing, why are we fighting over a card? (well why did you keep it then, must mean something). <p>You see, I LB'ed big time. Was it really something small, YES. Did it matter though?-to me it did. She is the one who needs to rebuild trust with me and I feel that something like that isn't helping restore her trust. No matter how big or small you think it is, tell me. Thats what I tell her. Let me decide if it is really important and I'll file it away, if not I'll disregard it. Let me make the decision.<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: wrestlingwithlove ]</p>