I can't stand this anymore, I'm in so much pain, I feel like I'm going insane, that I'm going to burst. I didn't want to vent here, I feel ashamed of my feelings, that I have chosen to end my marriage, but others don't seems to understand. <p>THe pain is just incredible, I know that you all know exactly how I feel. He chosen her again and again over me. Me, his best friend for 12 years. I thought we had it all. People used to envy our relationship, we were so together, we were friends before we were lovers, we cared so much for each other. <p>The last year things started to go downhill. I will always regret that I didn't fix it then, that I didn't know how to fix it. All I know is that for the past year, things weren't good, I was hurting too, but I stuck by our relationship, sure that things would eventually get better. I was in counselling towards the end, I was becoming more assertive, feeling better about myself, them whamo! Found about about miss Thai princess. Before that I was his princess, I was the only one that he wanted. I supported him through everything, I got him where his is today. I backed him up, encouraged him to reach his potential, this is the thanks I get. <p>I made mistakes, I gave up friends, interests, family, moved to a place I didn't want to. I did it for him, because he was my mate, I thought it was the thing to do - my mother did it, my father did it - I thought that was what you did for your husband. I truly thought we were meant to be together forever. I never thought in my wildest dreams he would ever do this to me. I should have seen the signs. People tell me now that H was selfish and always wanted his way. I think I gave it to him one too many times. If I had only stood up for myself.. maybe it would have been so different. <p>Now I'm here, at home, alone, hurting so bad. I just want the pain to go away. I just want to feel happy again. I want to get over this and get over him. <p>My heart isn't even crying out for him anymore, its just crying out. I need love, I need to know I'm loved, that I'm something, not some piece of trash that past its useby date so has been thrown out. <p>When I look back, really there's been no love for longer that when I found out about A. I think I knew that, I just didn't understand. I was too stupid, or in denial. I have to live with this for the rest of my life.<p>I will still work on me, I know I have to do that, or I'll never get past this. I'll still keep working on EN's etc, as I want my next relationship to be better. I can't go through this again. I look at my body, its going beyond slim and into gaunt. I can't go through this again, or I will have serious health problems. <p>Whatever I do now will be for me. To look after me. My plan A had a flaw, I was trying to win him back. Winning him back is not even on my mind now. Getting on with my life is. I've got two weeks to do this, before he come back. I'm planning how to tell him, how to keep him out of my life now. It will be hard when he returns, he may try to win me back, but I'll be stronger by then. Every day he choses her I will become stronger!<p>I'm so sad for what could have been, it could have been wonderful, but HE ****ed it up, not me. I tried. Everyone knows it, even him, a friend of his told me that. I tried everything I could, but in the end, he decided, not me. <p>If he wasn't in love with me, he should have walked away. He didn't have to cheat. I was there, I was hurting too, I had the opportunity to be where he is, but I chose our marriage instead. <p>I hope he'll be happy. I don't wish him any ill, but one day he will realise he ****ed up. Its too late. I'm gone. I've made that decision consciously. I support myself even if noone else does.

Seahorse, I'm fairly new here and probably not as aware of your situation as others, nor am I as knowledgable about the MB philosophy, but what I do know is that only you know what is best for you. If this is what is best for you, then I will support you in that. Be strong!

Wow,
I really hear your pain..it is awful and hard to get through. I am sorry you are going through this...I know God didn't intend for this to happen to any of us.<p>I am glad you are working on you. You will make--we will get through this. It is amazing how disappointing life can be. You can vent here anytime...I can't always give the best advice..but I am willing to listen. Take care...you are in my prayers.

Seahorse,
As a WH I can only say that to see your words and feel your pain makes things more "real" for me.
You MUST take care of you and find a way to get rid of the anger and process what has happened. If you have given your all then that's all you can do.
May God be your strength and the people here be your safe place.
Brw
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Chart your course. Stay on it. Don't let him derail you. But I don't think you need to dialog with him about it, and I don't think you need to rush into a separation or D. Just be a married single for awhile, a pleasant roommate, while you get your strength where it needs to be. If he notices and expresses curiosity, just say what Michele (The Divorce Remedy) suggests, "Oh, I'm just thinking things over." and leave it at that.<p>You are in a very rough place on the timeline, and many of us have been there and know exactly how you're feeling--the shaking, the racing thoughts, the squeezing clamp of pain in your chest, the overwhelming need to ESCAPE from the horror of it. Just try to hold onto yourself and ride it out. Don't give him any more power to chart the course of your life. Just stand still for awhile and take care of yourself until you are centered and calm and at peace. That is the place you need to be before you can make life decisions.<p>If you stay inside yourself and nurture yourself, you will feel better, even though it seems impossible right now. I felt the same way so many times.

All of us here have felt the overwhelming desire to call it quits to try and get away from the pain. The sad thing is that you can't really get away from it. You just change one kind of pain for another... Just consider carefully. If you've really tried, and your H is still not coming around, then the right thing to do is to put some distance between the two of you through a separation. That gets you away from the LBs and, at the same time, allows your love to die a natural death so that if you do end up getting a D, you'll feel less emotional loss. Just be sure you don't rush into something you'll regret later.

I need love, I need to know I'm loved,<p>I love you. And if you're ever hard up I might consider meeting your need for SF. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seriously, there is a point when you tend to lose yourself in a relationship. I know that even though it ain't easy, I am a better person making the decision I did to divorce. <p>I'd run this by a shrink or two, someone in your family, and then tell him your decision.<p>This is probably not the most popular advice I could give, but when you are in so much pain, and when it does not seem to have an end in sight...<p>Elizabeth

dear seahorse-no miracles here-just love and support. only you, after doing everything you did can make this decision. good luck and keep posting. get strong and be well.

Seahorse,
You can certainly make the choice to end your marriage.<p>The only things I would ask you to think about are:
1) If he would end it with the OW this trip, or in 6 months, or next year...and is remorseful, would you want to reconcile? If you can't imagine it...then you are probably on the right track. If you would want to try to reconcile, then, a continued Plan A or Plan B, separation with or without boundaries are other options.
2) Do you feel you have done everything you can? Can you close the door to your marriage with no regrets for your effort? If so, ok. If not, then perhaps more time in Plan A.<p>My road to a recovered marriage was pretty tough, and took a lot of stubbornness on my part, support from MB, a great counselor, and faith in God. H had an 18 month PA with a co-worker. We had 7 separations over 21 months. I did an 18 month Plan A...went into limbo for a couple months, and served the D papers myself. THEN my H wanted to try. 4 months later he had persuaded me it would be safe for me to try too. That was in 5/00. And...we're happy.<p>But I could have gone on with the D without regret because I knew I had put in the time, the effort that I needed/wanted to do.<p>You are in a very painful time, still close to the D date from what I read. You may indeed be done. But if you think you'd look back and say "I wish I had..." then you perhaps aren't quite done.<p>I'm so sorry you are in such a bad situation.

Yes, it hasn't been long, that's true. If he walked in the door now and said I'm here, lets try, I would, but that's not going to happen. It won't ever happen. I don't know if I can physically or emotionally take 18 months of this. I admire you very much, I wish I were that strong. <p>But these are the facts - My husband and I got married at 20 and 21 after 2 years of dating. We pretty much had nothing. We both worked hard, had common goals. I supported my husband in every move he made, and him me. Together we blossomed together we were a great team. We didn't need anyone else, we had each other. My mum was put into a nursing home with dementia, he was there, his father had a stroke I was there. We were always there to pick each other other. To lead each other back to the path.<p>In the last year he has had 3 jobs, in the last two he is especially well paid. I have never pushed him to do this, but was so proud that he had made a reputation for himself that took him wherever he wanted. At 32 that's a real achievement. However, his health has been slowly going downhill, nigly things, that he won't get fixed. He had high blood pressure. He never went back to find out if it was ok. At 32, its not good. The money's not worth it when it comes to this.<p>Unfortunately, from what his parents told me, success has gone to his head. He said he can do anything because he make lots of money, obviously that rule apply to me too. He can have me and her. Maybe he thinks I am here for the big bucks. Yes, the money is nice, but I would give back everything if it could be different. I've always said, that if its too much, lets pack up and go around Australia in a caravan, we could pick up work casually.<p>He said he didn't love me anymore. Before d-day he told me one day that he really felt like running away. I think he dosen't love this life we had anymore, I think he dosen't love me anymore. I can't live like that. I can't make both of us unhappy by hanging on to something that's dead. <p>I feel I've done all i can for now, there's one other thing I can do. I know everyone thinks its too early, but I know my husband, I know how he thinks. Sometimes he needs a bomb under his [censored].<p>He is supposedly moving out when he comes home for six months. I've seen a lawyer and I'm going to separate the finances when he returns. Split property, etc. Whether this wakes him up or not, I don't care, but its something I need to do. If he's gone for six months, one year, 10 years, he will never get back in my life like before. I won't go through this pain again. <p>I feel like I'm hanging onto remnants. I look at the past, how wonderful it was, how wonderful we were and it makes me cry for what's gone. I am grieving so badly for my husband, for my marriage. But the past is gone, its the future I have to look forward too. I see a lot of pain, a lot of misery. I can't see happiness with him. I have been manipulated in the last eight weeks, so he could keep coming back here. When he went on that holiday and took that teddy bear, he didn't even hide it. i feel like I gave consent for this, thats what I regret.<p>On friday night after he left I went out with his work mates. I bawled my eyes out for most of the night. One guy put his arms around me. I'd not had any sort of hug for months. I've thought about it so much, I thought about the possibility of years without feeling loved if I stick by my marriage. I don't know if I can do it. I didn't ask for a hug, I didn't know this guy would do it. I didn't want anyone to do that, but it happened, and it made me think, in fact the whole things put me into turmoil. That hug was so warm, for that moment, I felt like a human being again.

In 6 months, a year, I don't know. I'm so tired, so utterly exhausted, I can't see past tomorrow. I find it hard to think right now. I am going on a holiday tomorrow, I need it so badly, to be away from this situation, this bull**** HE has put me into. I hold him responsible for destroying my life. <p>I know I contributed to getting us here, but he could have walked away without cheating. He didn't have to cheat. As far as I concerned he has made the choice.<p>Lor, my only regret right now, is that a year ago when things were bad, I didn't fix it. That is my regret. I got counselling for us, it was during the time he was seeing her, but I didn't know about it. The counsellor (a male) told us that it wasn't our problem, that I was the cause of problems in our marriage because I wasn't self actualising, wasn't assertive enough. I am so livid at that ****ing counsellor I feel like tearing him apart. He wanted to use hypnosis on me to help me with assertiveness. Because he was so selfish, so caught up in his own cause, he didn't probe my husband. I believe my husband gave him all the right answers. My husband is very good at that. <p>But if that stupid imbosile had probed a little deeper he would have found out the real problem. It wasn't all my fault. Deep down in my gut, I knew something BIG was brewing. I tried to get help, but the help let me down. I'm so mad about that I could spit! As far as I'm concerned that counsellor can self actualise this!<p>[ March 25, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Seahorse! I LOVE YOU!!<p>Sorry I'm not good at this quote stuff but you said:
"If he walked in the door now and said I'm here, lets try, I would, but that's not going to happen. It won't ever happen."<p> The fact that you said you would try tells me you still have some love left. You made it through yesterday and today right? These are your down days. Your love bank is very very low. So perhaps for you it is the right time to close the door. But if you would still work on it if he walked in right now- give it some time. <p> You said it's not going to happen-not ever. Don't you think I thought that way too? Remember I was living for myself- still am. Didn't know what my H was going to do. In a way I still don't but I got that phone call this weekend that he said he was coming home and he wanted to lay it all out on the table and work it out. I know he's scared and so am I but he's coming home. I never thought that would happen. I thought he would come home to get a D. <p> Your H may come home to and decide not to move out. His time with OW might not be as fantastic as your imagination makes it out to be. We often imagine things worse thatn they are.<p> I know you are hurting. I am so sorry for you. But know that we understand your pain because we are feeling it too. It may be your time to let go. I don't know. I thought it was my time to let go as well but I held on one more day and then another. i can not file for D as long as my blasted LB still has love. I don't know where the purge button is- I wish I did. It would be easier to let him go. So I'm stuck with this love in limbo. But by waiting it out I have gotten a good sign. I don't know what will happen when my H comes home. I believe in us and that we can salvage our M. But I do not know how my H feels. But the fact he was willing to put us before school and OW gives me hope that we can make it.<p> Hang in there Seahorse. And know that I love and care about you. You and your Horny goat weed.
Forgiver

Oh Forgiver, Lor, anyone, tell me what to do. I'm so mad, I just got angry with my dad, he wanted to drop me at the airport and pick me up. I told him I am doing it myself. I was so hard when I said it, I didn't mean to be, I just don't want him to tell me what to do, I don't want friends or family to tell me what to do - maybe its because they will tell me to move on. I want to be me, but as far as my M goes, its scaring the hell out of me. I am so frightened of the pain. Its far worse than anything physical I've had.<p>Today, when I wrote earlier here, reading replies, I just cried and cried, as one of you put it it was crushing me, my chest, I asked god to please take it away, he did. That's never happened to me before. But its coming back again, I can feel it, maybe its because I'm going on the holiday tomorrow - it was to be our holiday, but now he's over there. Maybe that's what's working me up. I will keep asking god to take the pain away. I will keep asking for help, because I feel so stuck. I keep putting plans in place and they keep going astray. <p>I called earlier him earlier - no answer, left a message, told him everything was fine, dropped the dog at the inlaws, mowed the lawn, washed the car. Also told him I still cared and that I want him to come home and work it out when he's ready. To take care.<p>I'm starting to wonder what the **** I am doing. (I'm sorry my language has got so bad). Why did I ring and say that, could'nt I have just left it?Its not the plan, the plan is to go on with life without him, why isn't my mouth following the plan? <p>Guys I don't know who I am. I can see parts of me, but its true, I got so enmeshed in this relationship, I don't know who I am anymore. I don't even know how to be one person anymore, I'm so used to being part of a team. <p>This is all very confusing, and I'm loosing faith in myself to be able to do this. I thought I was getting somewhere over the past eight weeks, but I seem to be somewhere new, somewhere before the starting line. I don't know what direction I'm going, I just need help.<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Seahorse, are you there right now? Just posting before I read wat youve written tonight.<p>Dancer

SEahorse, just read your latest.<p>I know exactly about letting your mouth go against what you had purposed to do. This sort of thing isnt for the weak. But theres some things I am learning, very slowly and with mistakes.
One is that you need to be careful of focusing your prayers/conversations with God solely on the fears you have and all the wants. Try to find out what God's promises are and pray those, remind Him of what his word says and believe that it will come to pass. Instead of listening to music that describes how you feel, listen to music that is not focused on you but rather on God and how awesome he is. Its during these times God can release his strength more easily to you as you'll feel able to recieve it believingly.<p>And, be prepared for Him to ask you to give up all your desires (even if they are Godly) in return for Him only. Its a tough call in the natural. <p>One more thing I'm trying to establish in my life is redirecting the energy I'm spending on thinking and worrying about me, to worrying and doing for others. I want to shift the focus off me and my selfpity parties and help someone else. I have to say that my advice I give on MB probably sucks big time, but I am looking towards others and feeling like I can help and that I am important as a worker for the kingdom. I'm starting to forget about me for once and boy does it feel good. I want to get involved with helping kids on the street or something like that, so i've set that goal for after easter.<p>What do you think?<p>Dancer

Seahorse,<p> I can relate to the place you are at right now. I had been dealing with this crap for over a year. I lost myself completely in wanting to renew my marriage and my wife. The pain you are in is unbearable. <p> All I can say is you will reach a new place. You will feel worthy of love again. You will feel alive and like a human again. Perhaps not with your H, but you will find what you crave in your soul.<p> When it happens you will be a new person from the one you are now. Believe in that.<p> At that time your H will be the loser. And you will be on top of the world again.<p> jd

Seahorse,
Please don't beat yourself up about calling him. You seem to be making sure you have covered all of the bases so that when/if you do end it for once and for all, you will know you tried everything to make it work. That is ok, just don't let it destroy you. You want to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, and say "I tried and did everything I knew how to do, and I have no regrets, I was the best wife I could be, and I am not responsible for his decisions, I like who I am now, and who I was then" You may be questioning integrity, and these types of actions you may use to validate it, or at the least answer questions from your heart to know if you are truly ready for the next step. I hope your holiday is restful, get away and relax, and most importantly, ENJOY yourself!!

Seahorse, there is something I believe, when actions and words are in conflict, believe the actions. Your action in calling him are an indication you still want it to work, if it could work.<p>My H also told me he didn't love me. And, he didn't want to be married to me. He couldn't live with me. We went to our first counselor during our first separation, my H was denying he was in an affair, he was 8 months into it before he did finally confess. It continued another 10 months. <p>I may seem strong, well heck, I am strong now, but I was a quivering, crying mess for a long time. MB, a great counselor, faith in God, love of my kids, and finally 6 months of anti-depressants during the 5th, 6th & 7th separations pulled me through.<p>I didn't do the whole 2+ bad years at once, y'know, I did it day by day. Setting my course for that day, or a week or a month--when I was brave and able to do so. <p>I think setting up your finances separately is fine. I did it too. It is practical, sensible and for your protection.<p>Those of us with recovering/recovered marriages don't have the same marriage back. But change occurs all the time, even without the bad times, this year would never have been exactly like 5 years ago.<p>Now my H says he never stopped loving me, he can't believe he did such despicable things. And, almost 2 years into recovery, when he says he never wants to hurt me again, I believe him. It took awhile, but I do.<p>Like JD says, you won't feel the way you do right now forever. Your marriage may end--you may be the one to do it. But in your actions now and for the coming time, concentrate on not doing anything you will regret. <p>And that includes hugs from guys in bars. Really I know exactly how nice that feels, but you are married, and the last thing that will help you is an attraction to another guy before you've dealt with the pain you are in. There is no honor in cheating, even if your spouse is, it remains ucky dishonorable behavior. Having all the issues of being both BS & WS is worse than what you feel now. I know, been there.<p>I envy you your vacation... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Seahorse,<p>You have captured the feelings of a BS exactly. I also got to a point where I felt that I could not continue anymore. I think it is a natural reaction when you can't stand the pain anymore -- you emotionally distance yourself from everything. I still don't think my WH really understands the tremendous pain and torture he put me through.<p>Only you can decide your boundaries. Perhaps it is time to go to Plan B -- no contact with him. that might give you the distance to help you heal and give your WH a dose of reality. When my WH left, he went to his parents house for a few days -- that was certainly a huge dose of reality! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I think that gave him a chance to think about what his life would be like by himself and also reminded him of what his life was like before me. WHs like the fantasy -- who wouldn't. They have one person to take care of all the practical things in life -- the house, bills, caring for pets, etc. They have another to make them feel exciting, sexy, young, daring.<p>Just remember that you have done a good Plan A. That will give your H something to think about while he is away. When he returns you should decide what is best for you. Remember that everything you have learned has made you a better, stronger person -- even though it is hard to remember that sometimes. You are the best person that you can be and if your WH does not appreciate it, some other lucky man will -- that is what Plan A is about -- you and being the best spouse you can be.<p>I hope you have a great vacation. Have fun for yourself. Take care of yourself and remember that everyone here supports and you any decision that you make.<p>FHO

How you going Seahorse???<p>Dancer

In Cairns feeling much better, have laid in the sun for a few hours, feel more human by the minute. Not thought too much about M as I've been up for 12 hours just getting here. Flew in over Cairns, its so breathtaking. Its truly god's country. He must really love the human race to create something so beautiful (the rainforest meeting the reef) and I've haven't even been diving yet!<p>Got sms from H he said Chang Mai is awsome. Too bad for me I guess. Have to deal with it when he comes back.<p>As soon as the pain comes up, I get out and walk, I'm on my second walk through Cairns today. <p>Lor, yes I was hugged by a guy (not solicited as you seem to think), actually it was his best friend. I was disappointed and confused. I thought about the motives behind this and am wary. This is the person my husband wants to move out with, this person has been through exactly what I am going through now (but chose to walk away - they weren't married). <p>I'm not running rampant with anyone. If I can't be completely honest here about what has happened and my feelings, where can I be? The problem with telling family and friends about what is happening is that they want you to move on, they don't want to hear the truth. I sick of telling everyone what they want to hear, damn it.<p>I've kept my options open ringing him, I managed not to do any kind of LB thing. Now I have to plan how to handle the return. That's when he will try to manipulate me and that's when I have to be strong. HE told ME that he was tired of seeing people walk over me, that's good feedback, I'm glad he addressed that, because he will find out now that he can't do it to me. <p>I was so sad going off this morning to the airport, but I'm trying to just forget it again. I was doing ok, I believe that, I seem to "get it" more as I go along. Reading other posts help too. Sometimes SAA helps, sometimes it seems to be too far ahead. <p>chow<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>