Well, it's been a few days since I last posted, thought I'd give an update...<p>Quick recap: On advice of SH, went to talk to OM recently (NOTE: not for everyone to consider), WW blew a gasket, threatened to move out, and has been going through her own self-imposed hell lately.<p>Well, for all her "big talk", it appears that she's cooling her heels on the idea of moving out. Last post I had, I noted how she'd actually sent me a very interesting e-mail, asking me about how I was doing. I replied in a very honest and open way, let her know that I value her, but also was somewhat tough, telling her that I was becoming increasingly unhappy. She never responded to my reply.<p>However, that was last Thursday, I believe. By Friday evening, she came home, we went out to our favorite place for supper, had some wine, fantastic desert, and we really seemed to "hit it off". Kind of makes me think about how we might act if we were dating or something. It was kind of amazing, actually, that she'd allow it.<p>Then on Saturday, we were both in such a good mood with each other. She was happy to compliment me, I was happy to joke around with her, we were almost "acting as if" the elephant wasn't in the room anymore. We had a joint IC/MC session scheduled. At one point we looked at each other and made sour faces at the thought of going - why risk making ourselves feel bad. But we went, IC/MC could tell right away that she shouldn't mess with our mood - helped us talk about THE PRESENT - which was good. We focused on enjoying the moment.<p>IC/MC asked us who'd most likely "break the mood", inviting the elephant back in. WW piped up immediately that oh it'd probably be her. And true to form, by Monday morning, she was back to being bitter and resentful. BUT... This was something new. And it makes me wonder. With all that's been going on... could it be a sign that she's starting to find a way to struggle out of the fog?<p>And I talked to SH this morning. Told him about all of the recent events. He was very happy with my approach to OM, said that based on his knowledge of my situation, that he thought it was appropriate - but that it ISN'T for everyone.<p>We agreed that my plan now is to basically "wait and watch" for a bit. Things haven't fully settled out from the confrontation yet, and there's signs the A is suffering great stress. OM wants quick resolution, WW can't look at him the same way now, etc. My suspicion is that it's that more than anything that's drawing WW back to me. I've tried hard to create a "stress-free" atmosphere for her.<p>Things are happening now... wait and watch. I'm feeling really good!

As always I'm very hopeful for you. It still could be a while for it all to come to a conclusion (and with the conclusion and new beginning [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). Part of the lighter mood was probably due to the wall coming atleast partially down...long enough to let you say some things. That's got to feel better for both of you. Does she act like she's still looking for a place and planning on moving out? Maybe she's still thinking. That's good if she is. <p>As far as her breaking the mood today...hey, it's that kind of a day. I got up plenty grouchy today too. Tons of little things, then add to it it's MONDAY...I HATE MONDAYS! My hubby..however...totally surprised me and it's gotten me a bit back on track. In the past if I'd been grouchy he would have taken it personally and grouched back. Today he drew a bath for me because I said I needed one before work but I was still working on one of my computers. He asked if I wanted a regular bath or a calgon one (which to me signified he noticed my stress and it felt like I had a sypathetic ear for a change), then he chased the cat out so I could bath in peace. He got our son up and changed his bedding (ooops, a small step back in potty training)and he never grumbled a bit! I'm definatly going to let him know how much I appreciated everything he did. My day has gotten back on track so much easier because of his help and attitude this morning. It feels like PROGRESS!!!<p>I hope you see some soon! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

J.R.,<p>I'm glad to hear that things did settle down a little and she didn't follow through on her threat. I don't know how you do this... you sound almost "clinical" in your description.<p>You seem to do well on weekends - showing that contact is good. Does she regress when you are apart?<p>We seem to be doing the opposite lately. Kind of like "hide in plain sight" during weekends when were both around *all* day but don't have much to do with each other. Not in conflict or anything like that, just detached. I would rate last weekend as having zero hours of one-on-one time together. Well, I guess you have to count the 5 minutes of cuddling each night before she fell asleep, so 15 minutes total for the weekend. Sigh... Get to reconnect during the week. Kinda goofy.<p>Jeffers

Jeffers<p>First of all that song you quote is one of my favorites. Difficult to listen to due to the depth of emotion....but still very beautiful. Enya is a fave of mine anyway.<p>Anyway...... When I was a WS and my H and I were trying to "work things out" I would act the way you described your wife acting. It was a fear of getting close...not being emotionally SURE this was what I wanted. My H accused me many times of not even trying...but I FELT like I was trying, just didn't want to do the same things he wanted to do etc... The fact was I still hadn't committed to the relationship and hadn't figured out why I was staying. Now that I KNOW this is where I want to be and that this is what I want, I don't act like that at all! There is a lot of fear in the decision to recommit. Fear that you'll make the wrong choice...fear that you'll get hurt again, fear that you'll hurt your spouse again...lots to be afraid of. And obviously it goes both ways. For us...it took doing some REALLLY scary things in order to move forward. We let go of the past...we let down the walls to protect us...we just opened up and gave it an honest shot. It takes a lot of honesty and openness and GUTS on both sides.<p>I don't know if that relates at all to your situation, but it just sounded familiar. How do you reconnect during the week? Do you have anything fun you could do together on the weekend?

H4F,<p>My guess would be that she's still thinking about moving... but probably also questioning herself a lot, with such a major step looming. It's kinda contradictary to her own admitted "perfect world" where she gets to keep both of us. She knows she could lose me if she goes... or at least that's the impression I've left her with. There are no gaurantees in life, after all, and she knows I'm an "attractive option" for someone out there - using her own words. (She knows deep down that I can meet ALL EN's.)<p>Another factor keeping her here is that I suspect the A is dying off - given that I've seriously invaded on the fantasy aspect of it. Steve Harley indicated that he thought this was the perfect example of where talking to OP would be effective, due to the efforts that WW went through in constructing her dual life.<p>I think OM is pressuring her for a "final decision" - marry me, or leave me alone! Not a good tactic for him, but that's what "need" will do to a R.<p>Jeffers,<p>Hmm, yes I scare myself sometimes with my degree of "clinicalness" - I'm really letting go, I think. It sure helps.<p>As for regressing when apart... I think, sadly, it has more to do with her and OM's state than anything else. When things are good with him, they're bad with us, when they're bad with him, they're good with us. Or at least that's been the pattern of the past. I think it also has to do with her "defence mechanisms" - she uses her resentment to defend her actions - so when she's acting "badly", she's usually being quite resentful.<p>Will be interesting to see how things change as their A dies... with the fantasy largely taken out, I'm pretty sure that's a given - just a question of when. That's another reason I'm kind of laid back right now... what else do I have to do, other than wait for her to wise up??! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

J.R.,<p>For some reason I forgot that your W works with the OM. That would totally explain the Monday effect. If he's pressuring her and she knew she had that to look forward to I can see why she got tense....<p>Most people go crazy when nothing changes in response to their efforts. In your case you are seeing things happen, frankly it would fascinate the heck out of me too, if I were in your shoes (I find it fascinating even from over here.) As long as things are in flux you can be hopeful for a good outcome.<p>Jeffers

I'm going to STRONGLY make this suggestion again. Go out and find something to do without her. Let her remember how nice it was to have you around, and then tweak that little green monster a bit while she wonders where you are and what you are doing.

Hmm... I mentioned how she was back to being resentful Monday AM... She comes home Monday evening and is CHEERFUL towards me. VERY CHEERFUL. Nearly playful. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE???<p>She actually apologizes for being a b**** to me in the morning. Admits that she's used her resentment to justify her own bad behavior in her own mind. She's not ready to say she wants to work on the M... still says things like "if you find someone else...", "regardless of how this turns out", etc. But... her attitude (i.e. actions) are starting to speak to me...<p>My advice from SH was to play it out slowly... slowly get to a point where I can start introducing a plan incrementally. Sounds like a plan to me...<p>
Jeffers: frankly it would fascinate the heck out of me too, if I were in your shoes <p>J.R.: Oh yeah, it's been quite the study in human psychology - I think we all can relate to that!! And now to start seeing changes... it's not "fixed" by any stretch, but I always feared in the back of my head that I'd be the "exception case" - the 10% that do result in a LTR between WS and OP. But now I can so clearly see that it's very, very textbook. Which, yes, is clinical, but also a relief. I'm relieved for WW, because I'd hate to see her life in ruin later with no OM and no me.<p>H4F: Go out and find something to do without her.<p>J.R.: Definitely been doing that - it's been a major undertaking actually. One of her complaints from before was that I wasn't independent enough. So I've taken that to heart. Joined a local hiking group for example. Ironicly, she's showing jealous moments in relation to it - "oh there must be lots of eligible girls there who're salivating over you", etc. So she does wonder. My confidence and poise is certainly contributing. That's just the way I feel.

Good job! When you come home from one of those hikes...be exceptionally cheerful and somewhat mysterious. When she makes a comment about one of those salivating women just do a little wiggle of the eyebrows and a big grin and say nothing!<p>You really are doing so good!!!!

hope4future,<p>Glad you like my sig lines. That song just spoke to me... it seemed to convey a sense of helpless searching, yet a feeling that things do work out in the end. I'm not really familiar with much else that Enya has done, but keep thinking I should check them out.<p>Your description of your situation really struck a nerve with me. I couldn't decide if it was describing my W, or me? My life seems to be dominated by fear lately while my W does not seem to have any worries at all. Sort of got deep into thought about it last night and decided that I needed to sleep on it and try to work up a reply today.<p>A very brief history: <p>In 10/99 we took in a couple of foster children (relatives) in a "protection" situation (adding to 3 of our own). W took charge of the situation and I was overloaded by it, so I let her do everything. Originally I thought we would eventually adopt them, but our family started getting very stressed. They eventually moved into a true foster home in 6/00. My W started going on the internet (a lot) and found a whole group of people to support her and become her confidantes -- I was not much help at that point and probably seemed like part of the problem.<p>She became very close to one particular man in this group, I figured out how close in 4/01 and had a melt down. I was unable to function and was just plain consumed by pain and grief.<p>We finally started working on things in 6/01. She doesn't think she did anything wrong, never considered leaving (though "they" did talk about it in the abstract), but realized that I was very hurt and was sorry for that. She really dedicated herself to proving her committment and things were blissful for a few months. I started travelling a lot in the Fall/01 and so we've sort of disconnected a little, but I don't think she's compensated by making any new online relationships. Both of us understand things much better now.<p>So where are we now? I'm still non-functional-- full blown MLC. I was probably headed in that direction before my W did her internet thing. Our issues were things we could easily have worked through without my "melt down", but somehow it was just enough extra bad stuff to push me over the edge. <p>Openess and honestly is the one thing my W claims she doesn't get from me and is her top EN. I feel I am failing everything, at all levels right now. Openess means admitting that. I'm not sure I could handle her reaction (she has not been a safe haven for honesty in the past), hence the huge daily fear factor right now. <p>My W acknowledges that I seem to be trying to turn into a different person. Clearly she prefers the new Jeffers to the old.... I'm just not sure the new one is employable and I can't figure out how to balance the two. My original idea of myself was someone who would never retire. Now... if only I could retire at 45.<p>Your questions: How do we reconnect during the week? etc....<p>This is the part that I had to think about. I haven't really been paying attention to the hows whys very much lately. <p>I realized that she talks to me during the week. We're both home in the morning after ferrying all the kids to school (and I'm doing work avoidance) and she chats with me then. None of her friends are online and it's just us in the house. <p>Several evenings a week she has meetings, and afterwards she likes to tell me about them. When I'm out in the evening, she's usually on the computer when I get home so we don't interact on those nights. On the weekends she does her chores and spends time in between online cuz most of her friends are home then too, that's why we don't interact much on weekends. <p>I don't plan things for the weekend because I always have a list of work related things I didn't do during the week and this is my last chance. Planning something else would be admitting that I didn't intend to do any work. The activities we do have on weekends tend to be things the kids are involved in. We normally have fun if I can get over the feeling in the pit of my stomach that I have "more important things" I should be doing instead.<p>When we were actively "working" on things we made it a point to schedule things more. I have slowly come to the conclusion that I'm really messed up and confused and need to figure myself out, so I've just not worried about the "us" part as much.<p>This has turned out to be very long and rambling. I afraid to go back and check it for clarity.
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jeffers

J.R.,<p>Sorry to dump all that on your thread. Sometimes stuff just comes out.<p>Question:<p>Is hiking something your W would like to do?<p>I'm wondering if your W is seeing you diverging from her, or if she's seeing you become someone she'd more like to be with.<p>Jeffers

So true about getting an education in psychology or human behavior from going thru this. <p>J.R.,<p>Don't you need some new clothes? I say you do, you should visit the Gap or equivalent and buy a few new shirts for the summer. Get something that's a bit different than you're use to wearing, something fun .... something you can wear when you're hiking. <p>Keep us updated, your story is very interesting.<p>Best,
Jo

Jeffers....well I'd love to break out into a big round of Don't worry be happy, but I know someone would bludgeon me to death [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You have some issues...and you see them...next step is to start doing something about it...slowly. Sometimes not focusing so hard on WHAT to do and just doing some little thing helps. You know you two need to reconnect more...then DO plan something, or atleast mention that the two of you should plan something. You are probly right, it probly IS a MLC...and as such you would be more likely to relate to my side of our story. Because, in a way, women have an early MLC around the age of 30. How long it all lasts probly depends on the situation. I grinned and bared it as long as I could, then I got medication. I was on a very light antidepressent for about 6 months, then I quit. It was long enough to get me out of the pit and back to where I could manage things again. Plus I did individual counseling and read some self help books.<p>Learning to control your emotions, fear especially, bring about a whole new feeling in life. Because you feel like NO MATTER what comes along, you can handle it. Thats where I am today. Because I've been through so much and I'm still ok...and the sun always does come out tomorrow!! LOL...had to get a little orphan annie in there. Anyway...opening up and facing your issues may seem difficult and scary, but it really isn't nearly as bad as you worry it will be. Step one...do SOMETHING...no matter how small, start somewhere.<p>Enya is awesome...I have many of her CD's. Only time is a very moving piece, but not her best. She has some very uplifting pieces too. Those might be better to listen to right now [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I've been a fan since high school (lets not discuss how long that's been [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] )

Pilgrim by Enya on A Day Without Rain (only time CD)<p>Pilgrim, how you journey
on the road you choose
to find out where the winds die
and where the stories go.
All the days come from one day
that you must know,
you cannot change what's over
but only where you go.<p>One way leads to diamonds,
one way leads to gold,
another leads you only
to everything you're told.
In your heart you wonder
which of these is true;
the road that leads to nowhere,
the road that leads to you.<p>Will you find the answer
in all you say and do?
WIll you find the answer
in you?<p>Each heart is a pilgrim,
each one wants to know
the reason why the winds die
and where the stories go.
Pilgrim, in your journey
you may travel far,
for pilgrim it's a long way
to find out who you are...<p>Pilgrim it's a long way
to find out who you are...<p>Pilgrim it's a long way
to find out who you are....

Hey, I've got no problems with getting in on this thread... interesting stuff for all, really.<p>Jeffers: Is hiking something your W would like to do?<p>J.R.: Yes, to a degree. We like to camp and hike and have done so together in the past. But in her "revisionism" along the way during this, she noted that she was never all that fond of it... hmm... I suspect she HAS been fond of it, but was in denial. So in a way, I've been just reviving an old hobby of mine, and early on, I even offered invitations to her, but she declined. I think now she's realizing that it's not just about getting out to nature - I'm in a group, after all, and there's some social connotations. That's starting to bother her, I think. I'm not saying a lot about it right now...<p>My hope / expectation is that if she gets out of the fog, we can go TOGETHER down the road, given that she is a nature buff, and we could have fun (I can see some nice Plan A activities - bringing along some wine and cheese, surprising her with that, etc.)<p>Jeffers: I'm wondering if your W is seeing you diverging from her, or if she's seeing you become someone she'd more like to be with.<p>J.R.: I suspect a bit of both. I can only speculate... but from what I've seen, subconsciously WW believes she could get away with having both OM and I - that I've been so "dependent" on her over the years, that I'd ALWAYS be there for her. Well, my "getting a life" has shown her in no uncertain terms that HEY! I can live without her, and I can chart my own course. And she's uncomfortable about that. (For example, at one moment when she was threatening to move out, I said, "Yeah, I might use the opportunity to move too" - and that idea bugged her, because she felt she didn't have control over me.) And the kind of life / attitude I've been trying to generate for myself (Plan A) IS attractive to her, I can tell. I can't do EVERYTHING I want to - i.e. out into EN's like affection, since she's not allowing it yet - but she knows what's possible now... recognizes changes in me very openly.<p>Jo: Don't you need some new clothes?<p>J.R.: Oh yeah! Did that a while ago, actually. It SHOCKED her - I've never been one to go out and do that by myself, and I got some stuff I KNEW she'd find attractive. So now it's a double-whammy - I wear them and she's attracted to me, and she also gets to think about other women being attracted to me (something she's voiced actual concerns about recently [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] !!)<p>H4F: women have an early MLC around the age of 30<p>J.R.: OMG, WW is turning 30 in April!!

Didn't I tell you that before? I'm sure it was you...well, you know, from where I sit you all look alike. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok...I think I remember on another thread mentioning the book A Womans Life by Joan Borysenko...but if not...check it out. MANY MANY MANY of the women going through this are around the age of 28-32 and 45-50. People have long spoken of the 7 year itch...well it was right at 7 years for us. From what I've read I think it's less because of being married for 7 years, and more of the age. Many of us marry around the same age...and so many of us reach the 30's around 7 years of marriage.<p>Anyway, you outta read the chapter on that age grouping...and the next one just to be prepared...LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

OH MY WORD...this is not the usual kind of "inspiration" one recieves...but just got this via email and it's hilarious!!!!!!! I hope it doesn't offend anyone:<p>
Deep thoughts....by Jack Handey
The next time you're having a bad day, imagine this:
You're a Siamese twin.
Your brother, attached at your shoulder is gay and
you're not.
But you only have the one butt.<p>Feel better???<p>
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]