<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

JD,<p>This relationship may be doomed. Especially if you don't address the issues that have caused you marriage to turn sour. Try to do everything you can to save the marriage. If it ends in D, give yourself a year or two to recover, and then start a relationship if you want to. <p>Write the "No Contact" letter and do what you need to do. Disconnect all feelings re your OW. Don't think about it. Just do it.<p>Hoping

I would have to question the integrity of this woman if she knows you are married and agrees to see you. Please don't do it, it is SO not worth it. I will never completely get over the pain of my H's affair. <p>If this does lead to a PA, remember what Dr. Phil says "What they do with you, they will do TO you." Very true, at least with my H's OW. She cheated on H #1 with H #2 and on H #2 with my husband. All of this by the time she was 25!<p>If your wife is really willing to work on things, you have much more of a future there. Don't push it aside for something that may not work or last.

JD - I'm truly sorry to hear about your latest trial. H4F gave you the best advice you can hear. You've got to stop this now!!<p>If you need more of a wakeup call, review your use of terminology. You referred three times to your "WS". Well, as of now, she is also a "BS" and you are also a "WS". Even though it is only an "EA", there are no degrees of infidelity.<p>Please end this relationship with no contact until you get your marriage sorted out....

<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

Heartpain,<p> Thanks for pointing that out. I had not even thought of it like that. What a mess.<p> jd

Crap JD,<p>Welcome to the club that nobody wants to be a member of...<p>You don't need advice, you know it all already. <p>I feel for you.<p>As an aside, my stupid ex got REAL INTERESTED in saving the marriage after I moved in with someone else, not to mention MARRIED the guy. Pretty sad.

<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

You know what?<p>The ONLY reason my ex changed (and it's doubtful he changed enough to sustain the 'new him' for much longer than a few months, but hey, who am I to judge, right?), was BECAUSE I left him.<p>He would NOT get rid of that last OW, and in fact, she was in the picture all the way until last Summer, so that makes it... uh... two years... just like Harley says, right? The poor thing, thought my ex would marry her when her divorce became final, and SUPRISE, he didn't want to. Oh well... so, to me, the changes he says he's made don't ring true.<p>If he'd shown an iota of true change BEFORE I met my (now)H, I would have given him another chance. That much is sure. And frankly, had he asked me to come home within the first six or so months after I moved here, yep, would have come home. But he didn't. <p>So now I'm married to someone else, and he is "standing" for *our* marriage. The whole thing reads like a soapie to me.<p>Sorry to go on so long... I have issues. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1:
<strong><p> It's just a bit harder to prove anything with a serial cheater. Ya know?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Remember, OW mentioned above was #5. So... yeah... I know.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>
And frankly, had he asked me to come home within the first six or so months after I moved here, yep, would have come home. But he didn't. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Just to clarify something. He DID ask me to come back, but I didn't see the changes we are discussing here. Also, my (now)H was meeting all of my needs and I was falling deeply in love with him - OF COURSE.<p>I didn't want to give the wrong impression about that.

Well, I know I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know, just don't become the thing you despise... because of harsh judgments of the past...<p>Close one account before you open up another one! Evidently you divorced your wife already emotionally.<p>Have you called the Harley's for any phone counseling? Maybe you can figure out something through them???<p>Don't fall into a trap! There is always more to the story than what is revealed in the temptation phase of the game. BE CAREFUL!!!<p>The last thing you need is to get some 22-year old girl pregnant when your marriage stands a chance of making it!! Been there done that, only I was 20 at the time!!!!!!!! DUMB!!! Gladly, MM's marriage survived my contribution of an OC to the mix... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tell your wife more about this girl, you know, what she does for you that your wife does not. Maybe that will give a different twist to your wife's understanding. Of course, she probably will be more tolerant, but still, she should know how this girl really makes you feel inside.

JD,<p>First let me state I am not involved in a EA, however, since D day 2, I would find myself looking at an attractive man, in the grocery store lineup, at the mall, whatever, and think is this someone I could be with?? Did I make the wrong desicion when I married H?? This is something that only started recently, and it scared me! Never before did I look at another man in that way. EVER!! <p>I realize why I did thought this, REVENGE. Simply REVENGE. My H hurt me so much with his EA's that somehow I thouhgt it would be acceptable for me to do it myself. Of course its not acceptable, never will be. <p>It is possible that you have seeked out this EA with OW, to be vengeful and "get even" with your WS? You mentioned your haven't felt alive in a long time. This OW is young, very young. Do you think she has what it takes to make you feel alive again?? JD, you already know the answer to that question. You and you only are the only one to make you feel alive again. Yes, you can feed off the others around you, but at the end of the day, it's up to you. <p>Are you really ready for plan B? Are you done with plan A? I hope not. I hope this EA you have told you W about will be the wake up call thats needed.<p>I'll be thinking of you.<p>Susie.

jdmac1: "I really find it hard to believe wife again. I have heard the same sort of thing so many times. Why do I want to set myself up again."<p>I've been thinking about this very issue a lot of late. I feel like I "set myself up" to be hurt all the time - because I love my W so much I WANT to believe what she tells me. Well, so far as I can tell, what she's been telling me of late is true. Or at least it's consistent with what I do know. I don't always like what I hear, and I often go off the deep end with my reaction to it and "hurt her back", but I still find myself feeling really bad about my reactions because I really do love her that much. <p>I guess my point is that we all have to decide what our R's really are worth to us, what our Spouses really mean to us, and whether we're really willing to put our hearts on the chopping block and take the chance that they'll get minced into tinly little cubes. I'm pretty sensitive for a guy, and so I think I'd be more reluctant than most, but it's definitely worth the risk to me. No pain, no gain, I guess.<p>This doesn't mean WW isn't responsible for the choices she's made, but it does mean that if she really means as much to me as I think she does, then I will have to "work with her" more than I am in order to truly rebuild our relationship. <p>Hope this makes sense.

<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

JD,<p>I haven't posted to you in awhile. Thought I would log on and beat up on you for your EA as well. But, really I have a different point to make. <p>You have been here for awhile. I have read your story but don't recall many of the important details. I do recall that this is NOT your W's first A. I also recall that she has not worked on M after any of the A's nor has she shown any effort to date.<p>You have been in Plan A too long. Given that you are now in an EA, I would say way too long. I think that you need to step away from your EA for several reasons. <p>1. You are married. (that was a no brainer [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>2. Even if divorce was finalized to day you are not ready for a new relationship quite yet.<p>3. 22 is very very young. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>4. You need to do some serious decision making about what you want in a marriage.<p>The first three are obvious points and all have been made to you before, the last one may not be so obvious. Perhaps it is to you.<p>You see you have been struggling to rebuild your M, but what kind of M do you envision? CAn your W ever live up to that kind of M? Was your M ever truely like that given all of the past history?<p>There comes a point in marriage building when the BS must truely decide if this new person is for them. If they are then goals need to be set ambitions for the M need to be articulated.<p>I sense that your W has a hold on you because you remember the previous marriage. You know a different woman now, one that only showed interest when some other woman did. That may not be love JD, it just may simply be jealousy.<p>Sort these things out in your mind. If they are don't come into a clear focus of an action and development, then I think you need to consider the D, certainly plan B.<p>I will say to you what everyone else has said, you cannot do this with OW in the picture. However, she did provide you some very useful information. You now know that other women find you interesting and at least worth the time and trouble to develop a relationship.<p>That is an important piece of information and should help you more objectively evaluate your M and the efforts of your W.<p>You have made a mistake, but you have also learned something. Fix the mistake and use what you have learned. THat is my advice.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

You know what's what. Hang in there, none of this can be easy on you in the least. I agree with you that what we do speaks so much louder than what we say that we cannot hear what someone is saying when their words do not align with their gestures. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

JD,
Finallyn checkin for the day here... How's it goin this afternoon? GREAT advice and support here [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I liked this quote from Scared to be single again:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You and you only are the only one to make you feel alive again. Yes, you can feed off the others around you, but at the end of the day, it's up to you.
<hr></blockquote><p>Just like some of the others have said, jumping from one R to another leaves out the important growth we all need to develop what that quote says. Plan A helps us to grow in that area - (finding joy and fulfillment ourselves) - Plan B does also, but also.... having some ALONE time - time to grieve and recover - after a VERY long marriage.<p>{{{{{{JD}}}}} Hang in there!

Hey JD,
I think you may be feeling lonely and want to feel a void, But, all you may end up doing is hurting this young girl and confuse yourself instead. In my opinion I think you need to just leave. Leave that ugly mess and move on. <p>You do need some time alone with out women for awhile. Otherwise you will be on the rebound and could possibly make some big mistakes.<p>Go take a vacation I think you are in much need of one.<p>Hang in there. Were here for you. {{{hugs}}} sherry