Everyone,<p> I am starting a new thread off of a conversation the my WW and I had last night. I need some advice on this. Here is what I posted on my old thread.<p>I know it has been along time since I posted. Alot of things have happened. I just found out some really strange things tonight. My WS moved fromt the OM's house today. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Needless to say. I was shocked. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I know that because she called from her new apartment. She is living on the other side of town from him. We talked for the first time for along time. Alot of things were said, but I have a couple of questions. I asked her if she ever missed me. She replyed that she really missed the friend that I was before. I talked about it for awhile and I even said something like this. Let us be friends and see were it takes us. You never know it may drive us further apart and it might bring us together. I also told her that I miss my wife and family. She said that you don't miss me I am a different person that I was. I said yes I do. I told her at the end of our conversation that I waited 3 years for you to give me a chance the first time. I tell you now I will what a life time just to stroke you face again. She told me I was living in the past. We left it at that. I don't want to get any false hope. Should I stay with plan B or move to a modified plan A? I really need help here.<p>Indy

I don't know your situation but my opinion is that you layed it on a bit thick. She's just getting over a relationship...I'm sure she's right that she's changed...and to bring up the past that she ran from will not stir loving feelings right now. The best thing you could do, in my opinion, would be to focus on yourself. Gain some confidence...women love self confidence. It makes them feel like they could be with you and you could handle it if it didn't work out. To have someone tell you they'll wait forever for you, or you're the only one they'll ever love this way etc etc...is too overwhelming. There may be times when those things are good to hear...but not at this point. My OM used to tell me things like that, and they came across as wimpy, whining and desperate. They made me want to get away all the more. I could't take care of my own emotions, let alone be responsible for someone elses!!!!!!!! If you don't have one, get a life...keep in touch on a friendly level with her but don't bring up the past or give her puppy dog looks. If she heals and your friendship is blossoming...you might move slowly...but she may simply NOT want that kind of a future with you. It's hard to say!<p>Take care!

hi, Indy,
I was hoping to see other opinions, and I look forward to seeing more. it helps to see H4F's ideas.<p>I'm wondering if you should very cautiously slip into a modified Plan A. Remain strong and independent, don't chase her or overwhelm her at all, but be available to fill whatever needs she has - especially conversation and understanding. Women love to be listened to, without you trying to fix it or teach her anything. No pushing. <p>CAUTION: DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM HER!!!!!<p>I just think that since the A seems to be over (are you SURE she moved away from OM???), this MIGHT be your oppurtunity to pick up the pieces. It's very important that you be independent, confident, and positive. That last draft of your letter was so much stronger than the first few drafts. I'm sure it had an effect on her.<p>Well, tell me what you think, and hopefully you'll get more replies [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Faith1

H4F,<p> I now what you are saying about that waiting statement. It just came out. I think that your last statement about her not wanting to have that kind of a life with me is most likley the case.<p>Faith,<p> First of all. It is good to see you again. How are you doing? You ask if she has moved away from the OM. I really don't know if he is out of the picture. She did mention his name and I calmly said that I didn't want to talk about him. She said I don't understand that since you said that under different conditions that you all could have been friends. She also said that we were better friends anyway and our marriage just didn't work. I then told her that I believe that the woman that I married is still there somewhere. I was thinking about going to a modified plan A, but here is my trouble. I don't want to be just friends with her and I don't know if I have the strength to endure this all over again.<p>Indy<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

I can understand the lack of strength and not wanting to be hurt again. COMPLETELY.... I dunno. I guess I was thinking - you obviously still love her deeply, so perhaps you can dig deep for some energy to at LEAST be there as her friend if she wants to talk. As long as you are not expecting a turn-around, or any giving from her end. I could be wrong. It may be best to continue Plan B. Either way would probably work ok, so it may be up to you - according to what you think you can do - to BEST allow you to CONTINUE moving forward with your life. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BUMP UP FOR MORE ADVICE For Indy [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ^ ^ ^

Faith,<p> Thanks. I know it can be confusing. Well, I called a friend and they said that WS and the OM were at her parents house to see SD tonight. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So, I guess that answers that question. I knew that I shouldn't have thought anything about last night. I guess the person that married me is truely gone. How are things with you?<p>Indy<p>[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>Don't go jumping to conclusions now. Confusion in the A is an ally to the BS. Let's see, I think my son has several pokemon characters that can throw their opponent into confusion. You want I should send them your way? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Indy,<p>Interesting development. It is true that she will need some time to get over her relationship with OM. <p>She is right that she is not the same person you married. Her affair had a lot to do with a major change in who she is. There is certainly a lot of the old her there, but there is a new part too. If you choose to go to a modified Plan A, you will need to get to know her again. <p>And the same goes for you. You've changed a lot too.<p>I agree that the most important things you can do right now are to continue to work on yourself. Become stronger and more confident in who you are.<p>I hate to say this, but the fact that she moved out may not mean that it's over. Sometime people go back and forth for a while. It could mean that she just wants to be on her own for a while. There are so many possibilities. And although you are still married to her, I'm sure she feels that she has no obligations to you as a wife. Her life is hers right now. So if you do go into a modified Plan A, go very slowly and cautiously.<p>You know, the fact that you talked to her means that you are already in a modified Plan A. Perhaps just call her every few days for a short talk. Ask her how she's doing. Don't even talk much about yourself. Give her a chance to talk. Then evaluate how it's going. This will give you the chance to find out what is really going on and to see if you can handle it.<p>just a thought

Orchid,<p> I can't believe it. You aren't at work!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] If you can please call me at the house. I will resend the number. I would like to finish our conversation.<p>Indy

OOPs.... sorry... I am still @work. will call later. <p>L.

Orchid,<p> Do I need to come out there and kick you out of the office? <p>Z,<p> Man, it is good to hear from you. How have you been? You brought up some very valid points. I agree with you that she may just want to be on her own for awhile. She has been living in a house with 3 other guys. I guess I will just have to see if she is alone or if she has a room mate or if she is living with the OM. I am thinking about what I am going to do. I am trying to see if I have the strength to battle this new development. Thanks for you advice. It is always nice to hear from you. Stay in touch.<p>Indy

Hi Indy!
Thanks for asking about me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . I'm hanging in there pretty well. Ups and downs... and fighting resentment, guilt and depression. Thankfully, I have more "up" days than "down" days. I actually posted over on the D/D board, if you would like to see more details. But overall.. pretty good.<p>You got some great things to think about here. Keep us posted, and bump this back up and ask for more thoughts and opinions if you want them [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Take care!
Faith1

Everyone,<p> Thanks for all of the encouragement and support. It has been a real hard problem for me to sort out. How do I want to continue? How involved do I want to get? Do I have the strength to listen to her and not LB? Those kinds of things. <p>Z,<p> Thanks for your advice. I do have a question about what you said. If I call her wouldn't be like me chaseing her? Wouldn't it look like I am to needy?<p>Indy<p>If any one else has an input please don't hold back.

Yes Mr. Indy, U do need to come and pull me out of this quicksand workstation, I mean office, I mean...... LOL!!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am stuck here again tonight but this time, I will get my MB time in first. I need to unwind before I tackle the next mess. LOL!!!<p>Listen to Z. Try avoiding the A questions. Seems to get more of a response. Remember you have the LB fairie and me to back you up!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Orchid,<p> Check your post. I think that you will like it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Also, give me a call if you can squeez it in before you go back to work. <p>Indy

Everyone,<p> I am really wrestling with this so-called development. It seems to me that my WS really just wants me to sit on the wings incase her new life doesn't live up to what she thinks it is going to be. I just don't think that I have the strength to endure the torture that just being left to the side like that. Just a question here. Could my WS just have said all of this just to throw me back down on the mat again?<p>Indy

Indy<p>....."If I call her wouldn't be like me chaseing her? Wouldn't it look like I am to needy?"<p>To avoid it looking this way do not call her often, maybe one a week or week and a half. And keep the conversation about how she is doing. Do not talk about your feelings for her. And keep it kinda short.<p>As for per tagging you along to keep you on the sidelines. That's one of the reasons I suggested that you go slow, make no assumptions. Just evaluate it after each phone conversation. If she starts to show interest in getting back with her, do not jump on it right away. Give her time to see if it's what she really wants. Give youself time to see if it's what you really want. Let her be the one to pursue you.

Z, <p> Thanks for the advice. It is just hard to call over there knowing that the OM maybe listening on the couch or something. I just have such a problem with even trusting her with my friendship. How can I be a friend with someone that has treated me and our children like she has? I guess I will just have to go with the flow. Thanks<p>Indy<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by INDY_357:
<strong> I just have such a problem with even trusting her with my friendship. How can I be a friend with someone that has treated me and our children like she has? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, Indy,<p>I don't have a lot of time to post like I was, but I noticed while on here this morning that here you are!!! I see things have taken a DECIDED turn. Not sure if it's for good or not, but it IS a turn!! <p>I wanted to comment about your dilemma above about "trusting" a friend who acts like she is acting. First of all, IF she were a friend, a really, really GOOD friend, yes, you WOULD "love them" in spite of their "short-comings" as outlined by her behavior in recent months......<p>Second of all, she is NOT a friend. She is your W. The mother of your child....for that reason, if no other, you must give her the benefit of the doubt ALL THE WAY. You will always maintian a relationship with her because of that. There will be graduations, other occasions, weddings, etc. that you will have to attend together. For those reasons, maintaining SOME kind of relationship will be necessary. Maybe hard, but necessary.<p>I'm not suggesting that you let her walk all over you - become the wimpy, weak, crying guy you were before. No. I'm just saying for your own peace of mind, keep in mind that there WILL be a relationship with her in the future. HOW you want to make it, is up to you.<p>Also, this latest development sounds very positive, but you have to protect yourself. I, personally, would stay in Plan B. Maintain your distance. "Yes, W, it's very nice that you moved, thank you for telling me." Period. DO NOT move to Plan A. Plan A meets some of her needs. Plan B is designed to allow her to miss the ways you are meeting any of her needs, and let her get a taste of "real life" without you. That is happening. You must maintain that. You must stay in Plan B, and remain Detached. <p>Don't have relationship talks unless she initiates them, and even then, don't go too deep. I know what it is like to want it ALL back right now. BUT the more you try to rush it, the more she will RUN AWAY. I love Orchid's way of handling such things...."fog talk back at them." I wish I had her ability to figure out how to talk FOG!!!<p>LISTEN to what she says. She told you you were "living in the past" cause she doesn't believe it's possible to get back your former relationship. DON"T try to "recapture" that. She doesn't want it. She's telling you that. It's ok. I don't want the old, sick, dead M we had, either!! I'm looking forward to making a new relationship w/my WH, when he's ready. I can't force it. I can't MAKE him want it. I can just wait. And grow. And change, and be patient until HE sees the changes and wants to try again.<p>Anyway, I need to stop now. I'm rambling. I'm sorry. I'm glad to hear you sound so good. I think the move to a new place helped YOU, toO!!!<p>Love & Prayers,

Wow! That's great advice Lupo! You go sis!<p>Seriously, Indy, think about what she's saying. I feel strong and confident reading it, hopefully you do too!!!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]