Is there any understanding for each others preferences or needs or is it always a battle to see who gets their own way ?<p>This weekend W jumps my bones for drinking – tells me she could have another top with what I spent on bottle of booz. This is true. Matter of Priorities. She did her job, I feel guilty. She hides bottle – just like when she declared no peanut butter for me and hid that jar for a while.<p>We have and are spending some money decorating new place – Even though it is a rental, if she wants to spend $300 for wallpapering the kitchen, dinning room, I don’t mind, we have the money & it makes her feel good, I like that. I got a bigger TV -- I made a suggestion at the store as she is grabbing rugs, lamps, phone umbrella basket, pictures that we maybe we should show some constraint, she gets very upset – & reminds me that she has worked her [censored] off -- I of course shut up and go along. <p>If W DOES NOT WANT TO GO OUT for a bite or whatever, we just don’t go – she’ll have a reason, normally to save money – can be quite vocal & lay the guilt on me for suggesting. I also say OK dear – I tell myself, why press the issue. <p>First Night after we moved in, – my receptionist suggested I get a bottle of champagne to celebrate – That night W just not in the mood – no celebration.<p>At one time a mutual bubble bath seemed like an important ritual of intimacy to W – when we first reunited -- liked idea of Jacuzzi -- getting Motel room is consider by many as special – opportunity for something different – romantic – On my suggestions, W voices disapproval – too expensive, we have bedroom – again, why do I want to force the issue if it’s something she just does not want to do? I go with the flow. My life is not ruined. <p>A week or so ago I suggested we go out for a bite & she voiced a lack of interest – save the money theme – did I get upset – no – she eventually changed her mind and we stopped at restaurant – quiet dinner & enjoyable.<p>W jumps my bones big time when I start to take in her opion, too many pictures – she argues that it is just too costly. Again, she says she has worked her [censored] off & it’s not to pay for lots of pictures. I guess we apply a different principle of the “golden rule” – “who ever has the gold, rules”<p>Another time she got really upset because I spent $3.00 on a box of crackers.<p>She has made numerous purchase of $100 or more without my consultation—i.e. mattress and box springs, love seat & sofa, antiques desk, antique side bar – over the years approximately $8,000 worth of various collectibles, antiques & pottery. I don’t really care – it’s a principle though, that I am held to a different standard. I am criticized when I buy a box of golf balls – she uses used balls, so why can’t I use those kind (& I have used plenty) by the way is what she says – I bought two new boxes last year.<p>In most cases when we go out to eat it is important that I mention what I intend to eat so that W can approve, otherwise she gets upset if in her opinion it is too costly.<p>W gets very upset if in her opinion I call too many times during the day & she has no hesitation to be very blunt and unkind in letting me know this – she stated she has a right to say if she is interested or has time to talk, which is true. Just to be clear, it is the rudeness I don’t feel is fair.<p>Do I not have a right to voice my opinion or preference not to do a certain thing without it creating a big battle & show of total rejection & suggestion that I should feel guilty for not wanting to please my wife or do what ever she wants to make her feel good. Wife has made it clear that she does not feel any real need to do something strictly on the basis of her husbands feelings or preferences.
W calls and wants to meet me at a new restaurant /bar –a Max & Erma’s – I am not particularly motivated to go – everyone said it is just packed – I suggest it may be too crowded, she persists, in a nice way, & I agree.
When we go out I assume the objective is to have an enjoyable time with each others company. If while out, there is something that one party just does not want to do, for whatever reason (like elbow our way into a crowded bar area with no seats available to buy expensive drinks – where we could buy a bottle for what we spend on two drinks – whereas if we are to have a drink, I would prefer to have a drink after being seated), I would hope the other party wold have enough respect for the other party to be willing to compromise their desires at least a little. My W suggests we get a drink at the bar while we wait. When I made a fuss about not wanting to hang out at the bar, suggesting I knew she would want to do that (OK, disrespectful judgement!) she storms out of the restaurant muttering, “all I wanted was to have a date!” And now she has not come home for more than two hours –at least so far and has not called. <p>What is wrong with this picture? I guess I am being punished for forcing my agenda?
Any suggestions? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

What's wrong with this pix? <p>I think you are being abused. You are being given the blame without even having a chance to do the wrong. <p>She can spend 100.00 and you can't spend 3.00? Hm..... I've heard that before. My response would be to say, no problem when you can pay for all your stuff after you pay for all your bills then you can spend whatever you want & I will do the same. <p>Hm.............. my H used to drool at my $$. My bonus/stocks and such. Well I used to let him have it then it became an expected thing. Now it is a privilege, he can't have it. <p>Yes $$ is 'ours' but when one gets greedy, just like with children you gotta put on the brakes. <p>JMHO of course.
L.

Your W sounds a bit controlling to me.....almost like a spoiled child wanting things her way and never really being happy with the outcome of things. Has she always been this way? or is it something new you see in her?<p>On the other hand, are you perceiving her as being so difficult? Do you know how to express your opinions properly? There is no give and take in your relationship right now. Are you in couseling?<p>Harley's book Give and Take addresses some of these issues well and explains how one partner cannot always take.<p>TW

Sigh... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>HH, if a jar of peanut butter a box of crackers and a new sleeve of golf balls would help you, I would FedEx them overnight! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>These issues have new faces, but are essentailly the same ones over and over...<p>The issues are control and lack of respect. Why does she always get her way? I know you have been in counselling in the past, are you still?<p>What are you getting out of the relationship in it's current state? Is it worth it?<p>If not, are you ready to play hardball? <p>Walking away would be easy, but I won't suggest it because I don't have that right. If you want to change the relationship, you will have to change the way you react to her. I really do think that it's time to make some demands that put your needs first.<p>At the risk of sounding too judgemental, it just seems to me that living with someone who treats you this way is damaging to your mental health.<p>Please HH, think about it and make a date to have a quiet evening at home to discuss your futures. <p>"To be really honest means... making confession whether you can afford it or not; refusing unmerited praise; looking painful truths in the face." ---Aubrey De Vere<p>Continued prayers, Ladysing

It is interesting, that night she busted me on drinking we were at friends & the guy suggested shooters of some kind - high octane stuff & she was anxious to start & he even said if she was not married to me, he would like to date her -- that got her attenion of course -- she spent a lot of time paying attention to him and joined us guys conversation a lot more than the gals who were sitting close by -- she made comment to his wife -- "He is so funny, how could you ever get made at him!" I was about to puke, but decided not to say anything, cause she would come back to me that I am way too insecure. She insisted on driving home & she had some problems -- I was not drunk! -- then tonight one of her comments was, "Oh, it's OK for you, but not me!" She continued her walk away with that one as I think she relaized she may have had the standards she was trying to inforce on me turned around a bit -- I said, that is my point!
Orchid
Thanks for your input -- I have suggested the abuse thing to her to her, but of course she poked fun that I learned this from my computer friends! it matters not to her it seems.
Tossedwave
Thanks! I don't recall hearing from you.
I ahve had no successin y journey in getting her to agreewith anything form Harley -- in fact, she has not agreed with anything from our C or Pastor either -- I could use help I am sure in expressing my opinion better
Thanks!
Ladysing
Thanks for your patience! you've certainly heard a lot of my whins! You know how to get to my heart with your fed ex offers! I appreciate the gestures!
The night before Valentines I challeneged her about her intentions with me, that it seemed with her Bulimia and all that I may her source of stress. I said something like that I have asked her for some assurances about her feeling towards me and that I understood she was in a difficult spot, not being able to support herself & yet not sure about her feeling towards me. She really broke down & expressed deep concern that she thought we were going to work it out. She even vomitted! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
I just relaized today that she never said then that she really loved me (had an opportunity to of course). This is what confuses me, how she can be so dishonest about a lot of things, yet she professes such honesty in her inabilaty to express her love to me. She said she wanted to not go back to same couples counselor -- next day she wrote that she would committ to counseling -- I have not pursued it cause I fear she'll lay the "control" thing on me and frankly I don't know if I have the patince to start a fresh with new C. I mean things the other counsleor asked her to do were not rocket science stuff, but she refused everything. I feel this creates still another stull to get to the issues -- I mean it's been well over a year since D/Day andwehave jet to really discuss the why's and all -- she sticks with the victim thing & let's not discuss it & move forward.
What do you think, start with new C or should I make a stand to return to other?
Peace be with you!
HH

Have you ever read WAT's story about the W who let her H initiate s3x then said she changed her mind? So her H let her go shopping, buy a bunch of clothes and them said 'sorry dear, I changed my mind'. I know the punch line was better. <p>Ohh........I'm mad that I can't make this sound better. Maybe WAT will come to the rescue. <p>Anyway, you get the jist. Might be worth putting into practice. <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Have you ever read WAT's story about the W who let her H initiate s3x then said she changed her mind? So her H let her go shopping, buy a bunch of clothes and them said 'sorry dear, I changed my mind'. I know the punch line was better. <p>Ohh........I'm mad that I can't make this sound better. Maybe WAT will come to the rescue. <p>Anyway, you get the jist. Might be worth putting into practice.
Orchid,
It's late, I'm tired, could you explain?
Thanks,
HH<p>L.</strong><hr></blockquote>

HH,<p>Ok, I'll give it a shot. The W berated the H. The H did not make it an issue,....then but later he made his point. Right where it hurt. Education is sometimes painful. <p>Can you do this?<p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>HH,<p>Ok, I'll give it a shot. The W berated the H. The H did not make it an issue,....then but later he made his point. Right where it hurt. Education is sometimes painful. <p>Can you do this?<p>L.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>OK,I think I understand -- w denied Husband a need of his -- later, he denied or took away a need of hers.<p>This is heady!<p>I need some help in getting started here.<p>Can you give me an example?
The only needs that she has hinted are important to her (rememeber, she would not fill out questionaire) are finaicial security and physical attractiveness -- this is why she hung out with 32 & 36 year old! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
She developed this insusuable appetite for sex -- she would like to do it 3 or 4 times a day if I could keep it up, so to speak [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] -- but she is in total denial about any SA issues and she could go into sexual anerexia to prove this point i am guessing, although I have not tested this & we still have sex on average I would guess 7 or 8 times a week -- this is down some, as we averaged a solid 10 to 12 times for quite a while -including when she was having the A's. But for me to withhold, it would make a statement of course. She has used this as a form of punishment against me often & may be in that posture with tonights battle. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
So I am open to suggestions! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH,

HH,
I'm not sure what to say about the C's but one thing is for sure, you must be in joint counselling! If you were comfortable with the last one but she resisted all ideas, do you think another would make any difference? If you felt that the ideas were sound, then I would say it's not the C.<p>With that said, will she be responsive to any professional counselling? I just think that as miserable as you seem, she must be also. Although she seems to be winning the "material" wars, she is clearly not happy either.<p>Maybe a new approach to this would be worth a try. How about making an appointment with C and ask her if she will go to try to work on how to make you BOTH happy? She may be resisting because she thinks that you want everything to go your way. She might see this as a compromise and it may be the only way that she opens up. In the long run if you stay on your current track, it's a guaranteed TRAIN WRECK!!!<p>Sorry to ramble, but I don't see how arguing, flirting with other men, drinking and vomiting could really be very fulfilling. I sure wish I had a better answer... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Well maybe this may or may not be good advice but I think it is time to turn those tables around. <p>You have tried to meet her needs and she just keeps moving the scale around so that you will never be able to meet anything!!! Feel used and abused? <p>More like a pawn and don't know the rules of the game? Well you may need to lay the ground rules. Read my trust thread and let me know what you think.<p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ladysing58:
<strong>HH,<p>With that said, will she be responsive to any professional counselling? I just think that as miserable as you seem, she must be also. Although she seems to be winning the "material" wars, she is clearly not happy either.<p>Sorry to ramble, but I don't see how arguing, flirting with other men, drinking and vomiting could really be very fulfilling. I sure wish I had a better answer... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Not rambling to me.
She seems to like the guy C she has seen, but not lately -- I don't think -- I was reviewing cell phone records and saw where she had called him a about two weeks ago, and she recieved a message back, but she has not said a word & I have not asked. At one point last summer I was accused of asking to many questions about her C and supposedly the C told her she did not even have to tell me when she saw him, let alone even the general topics.
I know he knew nothing about her bulima, as she saw him shortly after she confessed that to me -- Thanksgiving-
Couples C -- tried to get agreement from her there was a need to discuss these things for my recovery -- my W stated she thought it was best to forgive & forget & move on -- C never tried to convince W to change dress -- asked me if I had assurance from W about her comitment to me if it would aleviate some anxitiey I have over her dress -- had me ask my W & she was snippy with repsonse, so C stopped it -- I have long expressed a need for conversation -- C ask my W to call me each day around noon to just say Hi --lasted 3 or 4 days -- I suggested making a habit of walking dog together -- my W said it was important she have this time to her self, so C asked me to back off that & to have my W come up with joint activites -- I mean it wasn't like the counselor was putting that much pressure on my W -- another thing was my W persisitent rejection of any Harley thing -- C tried to get her to agree that if I only discussed but once a week -- no dice -- C suggested a book -- W said no -- new C ??<p>Pastor suggested joint prayers - after first time, she resisted and it became an anoyance to her -- did it maybe 4 times no more--
SA -- W was intimate 4 days after meeting guy -- in our home - she began calling him -- his friend showed up at door step one day & she invited him for S -- she was with one one time in AM, the other in PM and at same time was active with me twice day -- sometimes unprtoected --orel & anel (the later never with me!) -- she suggested the three of them --She had box of condems in car, that I found after she came home after plan B a year ago -- now don't you think there just might be some SA issues [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] -- not a chance according to what she tells me about her C's perspective -- I don't think she has been honest with C about her activities! Too embarassing -- ruin her vitim image role --
Hope I did not gross you out, but you can see why I am not sure how to approach the C thing?<p>Can I intercede with current C? This would ruin her relationship with him I am sure.
Thanks!
HH

I guess I made my point -- W had pillow, change of unerwear for me when I went upstairs to retire for the evening - I slept in GR.
I think I might make light comment about how I liked that -- Supposedly that was the bed where she entertained the guys -- I don't know though, she may have said that to save me some pride that they did not do it in our bed.
I'm going to try & consentrate on work!
Peace!
HH
PS I may renew my aquaintance with the Counselor --she saw me several times before seeing both of us -- that may have contributed to my W lack of cooperation.<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

HH,
A few thoughts... I think that you need to find a new C. You both need to find one so there is no "ownership" ie: my C, your C. Neither of you should see this C without the other. NOW, you are on equal footing. The objective here should not be to "fix" your relationship. It dawned on me last night that she is resisting because she does not want to change her actions, and really does not value your relationship. She is however financially dependant on you and is scared as hell to be on her own.<p>Is this healthy for either of you? I don't think so. To remain in a relationship for financial reasons only is totally unfair. As long as you want change and she only wants a place to hang her hat, you are being used!<p>The objective of counselling for you,IMHO, is to find out how to live the rest of your life in a fulfilling manner. That may be with each other, and may not be. You have a lot of years invested together, but that does not mean that you must spend the rest of your life in a miserable situatuion. <p>PLEASE ask her to sit down and talk about what your long term objectives are as a couple. No more games, just honesty. It might hurt a lot, but in the long run, you could save yourself a lot of pain.<p>Continued prayers, Ladysing

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ladysing58:
<strong>HH,
A few thoughts... I think that you need to find a new C. You both need to find one so there is no "ownership" ie: my C, your C. Neither of you should see this C without the other. NOW, you are on equal footing. <p>Thanks -- just came to same conclusion <p>The objective here should not be to "fix" your relationship. It dawned on me last night that she is resisting because she does not want to change her actions, and really does not value your relationship. She is however financially dependant on you and is scared as hell to be on her own.<p> Thanks again, I am seeing this more clearly & am coming to same conclusion! I feel compassion & honestly cannot find courage to boot her out on the street. Are you suggesting that C take the form of how to bowe out gracefully and not worry about trying to reconcile differences? <p>Is this healthy for either of you? I don't think so. To remain in a relationship for financial reasons only is totally unfair. As long as you want change and she only wants a place to hang her hat, you are being used!<p>The objective of counselling for you,IMHO, is to find out how to live the rest of your life in a fulfilling manner. That may be with each other, and may not be. You have a lot of years invested together, but that does not mean that you must spend the rest of your life in a miserable situatuion. <p>I have an appointment with my C next Tuesday!<p>PLEASE ask her to sit down and talk about what your long term objectives are as a couple. No more games, just honesty. It might hurt a lot, but in the long run, you could save yourself a lot of pain.<p>Difficult [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] - she has always got defensive & battle irrupts -- I believe because of her great fear of being on her own -- as much as she does not love me, she does want to be abdonded. In our last heart to heart she said something interesting. She said as if in her defense, that she could have been attracted to different guys, over the years, but she is still with me. Now this did not give me warm fuzzy feelings - I had overheard her say to her cousin once, "It's not like I have not had pleanty of opportunities!" Now maybe I am taking this out of context or jumping to conclusions here, but I can't help but to think she has been playing this "boy meets girl" game for years & she has been & is in continual search of that perfect guy & has just not connected yet. I may be wrong, but this does not give me much confidence. My response to her about being attracted toother guys, was, Oh yea, who? She told me it was none of my business! So much for the policy of openness & honesty. I suppose I was being a bit accussatory, & not totally understanding [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I honestly do not believe she can be totally honest with me -- I believe that she has been in this dance of deception that she honestly does not know how to get out of it right now.
I believe that she can see that I am getting less & less tolerent & building courage to face the reality & this is causing the added stress ???
Don't you think we should seek a C that has some experience with SA? Or is this too much to expect? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Continued prayers, Ladysing</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Do you think I should apologise for my part of last nights outburst? My judgemental comment that sparked her fireworks??<p>Thanks so much & peace be with you!
HH<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>