Hi,
I'm new to the boards. Everyone here seems is so supportive of one another, I feel safe sharing. I have a question some of you may have already dealth with, but I can't find this particular topic in the Q & A. First, a little backgroud. I found evidence of my husbands infidelity this past Saturday. I confronted him with this information and after several discussions, he finally admitted it. We have at least for now decided to try marriage counseling. My question is this: How many details of the affair are too many details? I do feel I have the right to know what the last 4 or 5 months of my life have really been about. Right now, it feels like everything I believed to be true, really is'nt and I want to regain some sense of reality.<p>
But is there some point that more details about the particulars of the affair don't help in the rebuilding of our marriage? My husband has answered many of my questions, but there are some he just refuses to answer ( how many meetings were there, what sex acts did they do,etc.) because he does'nt feel the knowledge will be constructive in any way. Is he right or just trying to save himself by not saying out loud what he did? <p>Thanks for reading.

ecuse me, but you need to tell him this is about you healing, not him covering his own a$$. only you can determine what you need to know. that doesnt mean he will cooperate. but its up to you to decide what you need to heal. you need to read SAA and if he is serious about recovery, make him read it too.

What's saa?

I am the type to want to know all of the details, but now that I do, it's pretty disconcerting. Now I can't stop thinking about everything, and being suspicious of everything because I know what he's capable of. You may think that's a good thing, but on the other hand, it just made me more miserable.<p>If I had it to do all over again, I would choose not to know all the details. But it's natural to be curious.

I pressed my WH for all of the physical details about the A. (there was no sex, and the kissing etc totalled about 15 minutes over a 2 week period, so he was able to remember details for me). In doing so I found out about some of the sweet nothings they whispered to each other, but that wasn't of real importance to me. I also didn't really expect him to remember EVERY little thing they said to each other. You must be aware that he's not going to remember every little detail either. Also be aware that once you think you know everything, something else may be recalled to his memory. Let me tell you from experience that when he comes and tells you these things he's forgotten, it will tear your wound right back open and make you feel betrayed all over again. It's the price you pay for honesty. So decide. - Before you ask - Is knowing this detail worth the pain I'm going to feel when he reveals it to me? For me, the answer was yes. But after the last time, I've quit asking for more details. I was well into healing, and the last few details really set me back. They made me even more paranoid about my small breasts as opposed to her rather large ones. If I had stopped with the pictures I already had in my head, I might not have developed such a strong paranoia about something I have no power to change anyway. They also made me feel like he had lied to me by withholding details when in actuality he probably just hadn't thought of them before. He said he thought he had already told me some of them, but if he had, I wasn't paying attention or something because I didn't remember them. (and it was only about 4 more minute details.) Really think about what you want to know. Write your questions down and give them to him and tell him, before I can get over this, I feel like I need to know these things. I'm already hurt, and my imagination is very overactive right now. I need to know what I have to get over(the events) before I can begin getting over it. <p>I do think there comes a time when you have to move past this part of recovery. However, he must be honest with you as part of restoring your trust.<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: jamup ]</p>

I see your point about reopening wounds. It's just that I can't imagine the truth being worse than the pictures I have in my head, so in one way, I think I need the truth to help me downplay the drama going on in my head....how does one stop the constant playback of seeing my WS in another woman's arms? I'm tired, sleepless and I don't know how long I can continue with the never ending soap opera images in my head.....

It's rough dear, and it's a natural part of being betrayed. It may last 2 weeks, it may last 2 months. I'm 3 months into a very successful recovery, and from time to time I still "see" them together. At this point however, I'm better able to push these aside (as they are not productive) and instead concentrate on repairing my marriage. The thoughts may never end, but what changes is your ability to control and handle those thoughts. However, you must grieve the loss you've experienced, and I think these "pictures" are a very natural part of this grieving process. He does need to give you some parameters - maybe the whens and wheres but not exactly the whats. Would that help tame your imagination?

yes I think the how often's and where's would help. my imagination has created a huge network of co-conspirators (his friends)and elaborate meeting plans so I guess maybe to tame my imagination, I need a reality check, then I can move on..

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by angeld94605:
<strong> But is there some point that more details about the particulars of the affair don't help in the rebuilding of our marriage? My husband has answered many of my questions, but there are some he just refuses to answer ( how many meetings were there, what sex acts did they do,etc.) because he does'nt feel the knowledge will be constructive in any way. Is he right or just trying to save himself by not saying out loud what he did? <p>Thanks for reading.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>angeld-<p>Would you believe what he told you? Would that help you? I think the most important thing is to try to move forward. Does your H want to repair the marriage? If so, work on identifying what each others most important needs are and what problems each has with the other. Look at becoming more attractive to each other. Find out what each is missing.<p>As a BS I know that I wanted to know the details of what happened between my W and OM. However, once you let the emotions settle down, the most important thing is to move forward. However, your H should understand that you need protection and he should follow the rules of protection, caring, and radical honest described in more detail on this web site. BUT, and this is a strong but, do not try to force this information from him. This could cause him to withdraw further from you. As you each begin to trust each other more, these details that you are seeking may slowly come out. You may also find that as you begin to trust again and he makes love deposits, these details won't be so important to you.<p>Oh, SAA= "Surviving An Affiar" by Dr. W. Harley. I also suggest that you take a look at this book if you haven't already. It may help you avoid creating more problems as you try to repair your marriage. You might find it at the library if you don't want to order it.<p>Good luck.<p>HoFS<p>[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</p>

angel,
You are the one to decide how much detail you need. He must be honest. If you ask something and he doesnt tell (no matter what his motive is for not telling) it only reinforces his image of deception. You are responsible for asking only what you need to know.<p> I am sure your imagination is worse than the truth.<p>Remember this. He did not do this TO you, he did it for selfish reasons only thinking of himself.<p>For me it was like I had been thrown into a cactus. Everytime he told me a detail it pulled out a needle. As time went on more needles worked their way to the surface but it was much less over time.<p> Be ready for the detail. Do not react by crying or yelling. Remember he did not get into this mess by saying how wonderful you are. Expect he said not nice things that were only half truths. He had to rationalize it someway right?<p> YOu are not alone

I have asked just about every question you can think of. But I think we want to know because we are in shock, "this was never suppose to happen". My H had an affair with a co-worker. He was on an off shift so we didn't see each other during the week - giving him ample opportunity. The OW worked 1st shift so she would see him everyday then come back on his lunch break. H told me he didn't love her and that it was just sex and wanted it to be over. So I asked tons of questions and wanted details. The details helped me because I came to understand that it wasn't a big love affair I had thought it was. It was sex in the backseat of her car, quick sex at that since he was on his 30 min lunch break. He told me things like he never french kissed her. Which made me feel better knowing it wasn't intimate. So his details verified his story that's why it helped me. But I do have to admit sometimes the gory details are too much. But I think it is up to you whether you can handle what is going to be said, whether he likes it or not this is history that effected your life as well so you have the right to know. <p>Good luck,<p>
BS - 32
WH - 34
OW - 41
Married 11 yrs, 1 S - 10
A - 1 1/2 yrs
D-Day 1-7-02

You will know when you have the information you need to recover. The way you will know is that you will have no more questions.<p>For 3.5 months after d-day the affairs were all I wanted to talk about with my H. I was obsessed. He, thank goodness, realized that I needed this. And I was not about to give in to his early protests. At first we talked for hours each day. After a while we set aside a 1-2 hour block each day to answer/discuss the things that came to my mind during that day. It worked beautifully. At the 3.5 month mark I had just about all of my answers and I no more questions. Now I have a question or want to discuss it about once a month. It gets to be less over time.<p>It’s disconcerting to know that your spouse has a secret world of that magnitude kept from you. So by opening it up to you, you both can connect again. The purpose of the questions, IMHO, is to first get to a point where you feel you know your H again. The second is to find out why the affair happened, how to prevent it, and what he is going to do to earn back your trust and avoid such behavior again. The hours of discussion my H and I had about his affairs and where his head was at the time actually served to help us both heal and to bring us much closer the we had ever been.<p>Many times the WS will not share info with the BS because they are afraid. It seems weird to the BS, but the WS does not trust the BS. Generally they are afraid that either the BS will be so hurt that they will leave or that the BS will use the shared information to extract revenge on the WS.<p>Early one I told my H that I realize that we are all human and therefore capable of making stupid, hurtful choices in life. That I promised to never use any of the information he shared with me to hurt him. I have stuck to that promise. <p>I also told him that once a person has proven themselves to be a liar, any lie told, even if it’s told to protect does not protect. Instead it only proves that the person is still lying. And lying by omission is as bad as lying overtly. So I needed absolute radical honesty from him at all times. As long as he continued to withhold info from me, I will never learn to trust him again.<p>Questions about how many times did they meet:<p>There should be no reason he cannot answer this. Has he told you the duration of the affair? I can only assume that either this means that he met her almost daily or that by telling you it will give away more details on how he was able to hide it from you. <p>Perhaps you can tell him that the above is your assumption.<p>As for the sex act questions: <p>What I found is that detailed information about what sex acts only served to put sordid videos in my head that were (and still are) hard to eradicate. One of my H’s OW gave me some details and that was enough to teach me my lesson.<p>What I told my H about the sex stuff was that I know that I do not want the videos in my head. So I’m not going to ask details about that. I assume, knowing him, that he did everything he does with me, more if she’d let him, and as much of it as he could. I assume this because that is just the way he is about sex. And if I’m wrong, if he wants me to know that something else is true, then he’d better tell me. The look on his face told me that I was right. It was hard to see that look, but a lot easier then pulling each detail out of him one by one.

To me, the details are crucial to eradicating the secret second life and reestablishing and maintaining the essential line of respect.<p>During the A, the WS tells the OP intimate details about the BS and the M. IOW, he told a COMPLETE STRANGER (to me--I've still never met her) intimate details about me and our LEGITIMATE M. The very least he can do after violating me like that is to tell me the intimate details about his ILLICIT R with the OP that led to the destruction of my world and could still lead to the destruction of my children's world (if he doesn't get with the program).<p>I need to be satisfied that I know everything he knows about that period of my life and that I am on equal footing with him about it. As long as he is withholding, he is disrespecting me, which is unacceptable and will lead to me exiting the M.<p>To me, the details are secondary to the ACT of turning over the details--which is an equalizer, a balancer. An article I read yesterday, "Shattered Vows" ( www.findarticles.com ), gives a great analogy for what I'm talking about.<p>The author describes the process of the A as the WS maintaining a wall between himself and the legitimate partner--the BS, but maintaining a window, a one-way mirror type window with himself and the OP on one side able to view the BS and the M on the other with the BS unaware of her exposure and the violation of her privacy.<p>In order to recover, the WS has to reverse this and place the wall between himself and the OP with himself AND the BS on the viewable side of the one-way mirror window with a view into the A and everything that was going on in the BS's life behind her back--what her life REALLY was during the time reality was stolen from her.<p>The author states that in order to rebuild safety and trust in the M, both the wall and the window have to be restored to the proper positions. You can share with your H just how constructive and vital his building that wall in the proper position with the one-way mirror facing the proper direction is to rebuilding the safety and trust he destroyed. IOW, it was his A that was destructive and it will remain so. Giving you a window onto the destruction with the safety of the wall keeping out the OP is PRECISELY the constructive act he needs to do.<p>The author explains that as with any trauma, part of recovery is telling the story over and over again until you understand what happened. Huge chunks of your life were not as they seemed, so you have to go back and rewrite your past in order to feel safe in your future. One of the most important things about it is if you aren't given the proper orientation, are not able to view everything exactly as it truly was, then how would you ever know if it was happening again?<p>When you go back over the secret second life in the context of the life you thought you were living, you are able to overlay them one on top of the other and see much more clearly all the "storm warnings" that will clue you in if your WS ever tries to establish a secret second life again. It's kind of like a spy turning over all his code books, camouflage, hidden tunnels and passages, all the tools of the trade--a crucial gesture that indicates he's giving up that life for good.<p>If any of this feels right to you in your gut, if you identify, then you need to know the details, and you will know how much you need to know. And I can tell you that if this need is as important to you as it is to me, it will not go away until it is met. I'm still sitting here 6 months later with that need unmet, and the longer that goes on, the farther and farther I withdraw from my H emotionally. Because as long as there are any dark corners or blank spots, then I am not safe and will protect myself accordingly.

angel,<p>This information is stuff that you have a right to know - it is about your life. You are not a child and he doesn't get to pick and choose which news he thinks you are entitled to know. He is the last person who should decide what is in your best interest. <p>And frankly, he is just withholding because he is more worried about his skin than yours. He needs to put aside his own selfish fears and do what needs to be done to ndo the damage he has done. He will just cause much more damage by being secretive and withholding at this point. <p>You are entitled to know the details that you WANT to know. And if he withholds details that you want and need to know, it will only prolong your recovery in a particularly agonizing way. He needs to just get it all over with and tell you what you need to know.

For me, the not knowing was worse than knowing, even though it hurt like ****. I found that my imagination was often worse than the truth. Everybody is different, my MC tried to tell me I shouldn't know. But I'm glad I do now.<p>The book Torn Asunder and the article "Shattered Vows" at findarticles.com do a great job of explaining why the BS needs to know (if that's what you want I guess.) For me, there was no other way. I didn't want to spend the rest of my life imagining things.<p>I know how awful this is and I wish you peace and healing. Keep posting and reading, there's a lot of support here

The basic assumption when someone chooses to withhold information from someone else is that the other person is not "big enough" to handle what they have to say. That's pretty belittling if you ask me, to think so poorly of someone else.<p>Find out what you need to...you'll know when the information ceases to be helpful. Prove that you can "handle" what he has to say.