Hmm I'm wondering if that always happens..
This was a semi recent nugget of info I found out from my WW. She admitted that since d-day the few times we have had SF she was always thinking of OM.... I guess to some extent we cannot help what pops in our heads during those times. but only to some extent. <p>Did any of you other WS' have that and how long till you stopped?<p>-HI<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Hangingin,
I'll be honest [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] here and say right out, I don't actually understand the concept of Radical Honesty. Practical Honesty, Accountability, yeah. But sometimes it seems to me that people are using Radical Honesty to pretty much say, 'You're ugly, stupid and could stand to lose some weight.' It seems more like Brutal honesty. The same with "I think of the OM".<p>Did you ask? If so, start realizing there may be some answers that you can't deal with, if you can't deal with the worst possible scenario, don't ask until you can.<p>Did she volunteer that info? Ouch. Why? To be honest? To hurt you?<p>I wouldn't ask my H that Q about the FOW, nor would he ask me, but if he even asked me if I still think about the FOM I'd say "I try not to. I love being with you H. I want our marriage to work. You are gorgeous and sexy...etc." Those are true statements and add to our bonding.<p>Hopefully one of the Radical Honesty advocates will post, because this seems to me more designed to cause pain than begin healing.

Yep, I totally agree with Lor. Your wife telling you this is beyond radical honesty.<p>....re....."but even me.. mr ADD I can so some extent decide what to hold onto in my head and what to try to NOT think about."<p>Ok, do thoughts of him pop into her head or does she dwell on them during SF?<p>She cannot control what pops into her head, at least not in the short term. So if the thought only passes through but she redirects her thoughts, that's a move in the right direction.<p>I've had a reverse problem .... thinking of my H and one of his OW'en during SF. It does not happen much anymore. But at first it was there pretty often. The thoughts were hard to put out of my mind and ruined more then one SF encounter. <p>But I've worked very hard at redirecting my thoughts.<p>One of the things about SF is that we get so far out of the 'thought' mode that our mind can free flow. Maybe you need to bring her mind to the present more for a while. Talk to her... coo at her... give her new images to see in her mind's eye. You will have to be more verbal then you probably usually are. But most women love that anyway. I love for my H to talk to me. Tell her out loud what you see, feel (physically and emotionally), try to get her to do the same thing.<p>This may be a crazy idea but I'll bet it will go a long way to erraticate him from her mind.<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Well we were having issues at the time after a big trigger.. I asked and got the truth. I DID want to know.. and I think its better I do know.. isnt that something we need to work on? I think we should be trying to expel the OM from our lives as much as possible.
Wouldnt satisfying WW while she is thinking of OM just re-enforce her feelings for him?<p>I dunno..<p>-HI

This was a problem for us because I kept thinking about "her" during SF... Mr. Pepper didnot think about her! Thank God I finally finished punishing myself that way.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Yeah I know the opposite is a problem.. BS's thinking about the A during intimacy and there have been a few threads on that. But since I've been here on MB I havent seen to many posts on the opposite. WS stuck thinking about the OP.<p>Is that because it doesnt happen? or that if it does the WS isnt really committed to recovery? Maybe Im just not that good at SF.. who knows. I've only been with one person so I dont have anyone else's reaction to judge from WW says i am good but then again I doubt she would say otherwise... then again we have the radical honesty thing going.<p>Go fig.<p>-HI

Nah! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't think satisfying her while she is thinking of OM reinforces OM connection. <p>I think that Lor hit many things on the head. Radical honesty doesn't require "radical brutality". Honest can be delivered in many ways and with thought and care the information can be delivered with a minimum of damage.<p>Hangin, I suspect that as she continues her withdrawal her images just as yours will fade. Most here report that. As for YOU getting this image out of her mind I don't know the answer. Perhaps, looking into her eyes would help focus her on the here and now.<p>But, I do think this will take time and patience as do most other things having to do with recovery.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Ouch! There's Radical Honesty, and then there's Radical Honesty!.<p>I think Lor asked the key question...did you ask her, or did she just volunteer the info? If she did, then I think you have the right to ask why? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But don't come to conclusions until you get the answer. She may be trying to open up to you, and it may also be a way for her in asking your help in getting rid of those images. If so, then that's a good thing. <p>Unfortunately, it's probably common for a WS to think of the OP especially if the affair ended only recently, or if they are still going through withdrawals and still have feelings for them, etc. I apologize because I'm not too familiar with your current situation, so please forgive me if I'm off the mark here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you keep up with your Plan A efforts, and work to meet her needs and avoid LB's, you will continue to depost love units back into her bank. Eventually those feelings she has for him will be replaced by the new ones you are creating. The closer she feels to you emotionally, the more she will have you in mind when you are doing it.<p>I must admit, I don't ask my wife if she still thinks of him, and it's been a year and a half since the affair ended. I'm just trying to stay as emotionally "connected" to her as I can, so that she would want to think of me rather than anyone else.<p>Sorry I don't have any better answers.<p>-HD

Practical suggestions to go along with zorweb more verbal, lights on or candles, daylight, eyes open. "Look at me/I want to look in your eyes".

Thanks all..
JL and zor are probably right about the things to "bring her into the present" things to work on I suppose.<p>I do want to know.. I dont really takeit as a failure when she thinks of him because I expect it.. it of course doesnt make me feel too great, but it hurts worse when she hides things from me.<p>I feel I have a right to have all the information, so I know who this person is I am married to and I can make my own desicions from that, even if the desicion is that I dont want to be married to her.<p>-HI

Sorry HI. While I was writing my post you were already answering some of my questions. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I also don't think you have anything to worry about with regards to satisfying her even if she's thinking about the OM.<p>Also, don't let your confidence be affected by it. I know I felt pretty inadequate when I learned of her affair. She insisted it had nothing to do with it, but, then again, maybe she was just being nice. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, there are many books written on how to be a better lover. I went and picked a few out during that time, and my wife (and myself) have reaped the benefits...there's no shame in trying to "better" yourself. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-HD

HD..
Thanks for the encouragement. yep i've picked up some books and done some looking into it... now I just need her to try things with ha!<p>we'll see.<p>Oh talk about brutal honesty. heres an earlier story. WW told me after d-day that I was "bigger than him" THAT i did not ask to hear she said it out of the blue thinking it would "make me feel better" Sheesh. It was not anything I wanted to think about shortly after d-day. I think my WW just lacks in tact sometimes.<p>Thanks again.
-HI

HangingIn,
You do have the right to information, but it is good to know what it is you really want to know, and how that information may affect you.<p>Sometimes I think of all the questions I asked, and really what I wanted to know was if my H loved me and if he planned to stay with me and try to make our marriage work. I often asked questions, but really needed reassurance, a state where some answers actually cause me new anxiety.<p>My counselor used to ask my "What made you ask THAT." "Did the answer help you understand your H?" That would be a good question. "Or did it hurt you without helping your understanding?" Unwise question. <p>I had to smile at your wife's comment about size, honest, but knowing the comparison was consciously made & stated... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] . But still, it is kind of disarming & sweet.<p>Keeping or regaining your sense of humor can help you through some of these moments.

It seems to me that we are dodging the question. It was.... Do the WS think of the OP during SF with BS? I do still have fresh images in my mind about WS with OP and am having a hard time with SF because I keep "seeing" them do the special things that I and WH have done. Are the WH's having those same visions? I would really like a direct answer from WS's.
Thanks

The answer to the question for me is both yes and no. <p>The first couple of times we made love after DDay yes I thought of the OM. Not that I was thinking the OM was better and I wanted to be with him because he never was. It was just such a very tense emotional time. I was still trying to get over him and in some ways I did feel guilty, like in some way I was hurting the OM by being intimate with my H.<p>But those thoughts and feelings fade. Was your wife your first sexual experience? If not, how often when making love to your W do you think about the women you have been with? You don't, it was just another time and place. <p>In my case I have most the time been able to successfully shut the OM out of my head. Over time new memories take the place of the old memories and no I never think of him.

I always had thoughts of op ,they haunted me.
I'm not sure when it stopped but I realized the other night that I actually had my eyes open and was looking at my wife, it was great.

Thinking back I did not think of FOM when making love to my H. Since D-day it has been all about reconnecting with my H 100% and that includes eyes open and lights on!<p>I did, however have withdrawal symtoms, but I pretty much kept it to myself. I guess it wasn't as horrible for me as for others. I truly considered myself lucky that my H gave me a second chance and have worked very hard at trying to put FOM out of my mind. <p>1step

Ironically, in the aftermath of my H's A, a traumatic sexual experience of mine from before our M came out and sent my H into a tailspin as if HE'D been betrayed because I had so subliminated it I'd never told him about it. I think the trauma of the A brought to the surface ALL the traumas in my life. (BTW, I did validate his feelings of betrayal and took responsibility for not telling him, that he had a right to know before we were married, and I should have done a better job of remembering and disclosing things like that.)<p>Anyway, the images affected him so badly that he wanted them eradicated, and these are the things he asked me to do to help him with that during SF:<p>

• Keep my eyes open and on him and what we are doing.
• Talk to him about what we are doing and say his name.
• Do something sexual with him that I'd never done with anyone else before.

<p>The last one was the most difficult because it seemed we'd already done everything there was with each other, but we finally came up with something.<p>I assume if he has such vivid images of something that happened to me once before I met him that he must have images of the OW, so I never needed to ask. But I think it is important to know if that is the case because there are things that the other partner can do to help you eliminate them from your mind when you are together sexually.<p>I still say Radical Honesty is best, even with the hard stuff like this. I'd rather know than not know. I'd rather know if he thought I was ugly, stupid, whatever, than not know. What good does it do you to not know that if that's what your spouse is thinking?<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>