My wife gave me a B-day card this morning and this is what she said in the card. Tell me what you really think she is saying when you read between the lines. I can't tell if she just is feeling guilty that it is my B-day and she is putting me through all this trouble or if she just wants to escape the reality she has created.<p>---
Happy B-day!!
I know that I am the last person on this earth you would believe, but I truly do wish you a happy birthday and I also want all the best for you! With everything we've been going through lately I know it's hard to stay positive and feel good about life. I do want you to know that you still are and always will be one of the most genuine and good hearted people I know!!!
I am sorry for everything that's happened in the past few motnhs and now! I NEVER intentionally wanted to hurt you like this.
Happy B-day and lets have a fun one!!!
"Heart" (not writing love) wife name
-----<p>What I sort of get out of this is she knows I am a good person but she has desires in life to be or want to be with someone else. I have gotten the crap before she is attracted to taller people, etc...
Maybe it is me but I can't really take anything too positive by what she said. Because if she means what she said she would of choosen to work on the marriage by now. I need your feedback..Thanks...

CG--<p>Sounds like a variation of the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" crapola...<p>And to tell you the truth, this statement:<p>I NEVER intentionally wanted to hurt you like this. <p>...is just so much WS fogese horse hockey.<p>I mean, do they think were stupid? Let's see: "I'm going to hop in the sack with someone who is not my spouse--but it will be OK because I am not INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt them." <p>Sheeessh, where does that one come from? And they all use it.<p>Sorry, I don't mean to rain on your birthday parade...<p>Take my opinion for what it's worth...just one more pained BS...<p>E

Confused -<p>I am going to ask you something that may be very difficult. I know it was for me. Maybe you need to NOT be there when she falls, as your signature suggests?<p>There is a condition of codependecy where people do not allow those they depend on, to suffer the consequences of their actions. I suffer from this. I don't want my wife to suffer from her A. I want to protect her from such. I am codepenent in this way.<p>What I previously failed to realize was that I was causing her more harm than good by not allowing her to fall -- by not allowing her to experience the consequences of life and the choices she made. Consequences of decisions are how we grow and learn - both good and bad. If a person suffers no consequences at all from an action, they learn nothing from it.<p>Think of it in the simplist terms. If you flip a switch and a light comes on, you have learned of the consequence of flipping that switch. You know that you have reduced the life of that bulb by at least a few seconds and you have used up a few watts of power as well as increased the temperature in the room very slightly.<p>If you were to flip a switch and nothing occured, you would learn nothing. Flipping that switch now has no significance. Flipping 40 times does not help you learn anything. Each time you flip that switch, you may be turning on a light in another room but since you do not experience that consequence, you will never learn from it.<p>Your wife needs to learn from her experience. That may mean that she may need to fall and fall hard to grow from this. I sometimes wish I had not been there to pick my wife up during these times so she could have grown more during our seperation.<p>This theory is adapted from the Boundaries materials authored by Cloud and Townsend.

Confused-guy: I think she means just what she says, have a happy birthday. It seems that you are constantly trying to read between the lines, searching for some sign. Sometimes you just have to stop looking for signs. Sometimes happy birthday means just that. Start thinking about your needs and your life...it seems that you spend every waking moment anaylizing your wife's every word and gesture.

Here's a point of view from another side. I believe I gave my H the same type of cards a few times during my A. It was guilt. Yes, some WSs do feel guilty about what they're doing, unfortunately not enough to make them stop what they are doing only enough to make them feel uncomfortable about it. I have two positive things to say about it.<p>
#1 Be thankful that she is feeling any guilt right now no matter how small. It is better than feeling no remorse at all.<p>#2 Even though it was me writing those same things to my H during my A we have been in recovery for 1 1/2 yrs right now and are doing really well.<p>I think she is still struggling within herself about what she wants so don't give up on her just yet. I am so very thankful now that my H didn't give up on me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .

Few thoughts on this....<p>Isn't it nice that she didn't ignore the event?<p>Clue #1 -- "lets have a fun one"....no heavy talk, just relax.<p>"I never intentionally wanted to hurt you like this" 100% true statement -- when I got involved in my affair I never once considered how my H might feel about it. It was never a malicious decision -- like ohhhh how can I hurt H the most? He was never even present in my thoughts. It was all about me.<p>Stop overanalyzing. Your posts often annoy me because I see so much of my STBX's actions in yours -- and he drove me crazy with the microscope. I hated it.<p>I hope you can relax, have fun, and have an enjoyable birthday!

Lexxxy,<p>Well as far as over analyzing like anyone else that is a BS they are always looking for a "sign". I am learning day by day and with people like yourself pointing it out I have to worry about me and my life. It is just hard when someone has been at your side for almost nine years and then they say in a lot of ways get lost.
I don't mean to piss anyone off or anoy anyone with my posts but probably better to offend someone on here then start WWIII with my wife...
Thanks for the advice and I will try harder...<p>Thanks to everyone....

Couple of things:<p>1) Happy birthday! Enjoy it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>2) Yes, it does seem you are trying too hard to read more into it. Sometimes you need to take the words for what they are, simple as that. It's hard to let your guard down, but it doesn't always help to let that wall keep getting bigger and stronger.<p>3) The "never meant to hurt you" can be very true. We (WS) don't do this to be malicious, vindictive, or hurtful in any way. Sure, we should think and realize that that is the end result, but we fail to do that. I don't justify it in any way. Try to take it as a sincer apology.<p>4) I don't think your posts to be annoying. Keep posting the way you do. You know the answers a lot of times, but it really helps to get the feed back (even if you know what's going to be said) to help you keep your head above water. You are doing nothing wrong in posting. <p>In any event, try to enjoy your day. Sounds like your wife is attempting to help you in that too. Maybe the affair issues can hold for a day so that the two of you can enjoy it together and you can truly have a happy birthday. Maybe it will even help you move forward some together.<p>This is just my two cents worth. Take care, and good luck.

First of all...Happy Birthday<p>
I like what Mr. bunky had to say. Sometimes it does take letting us (WS) fall hard so we will learn and wake up. Hopefully when you wake up you will learn from your experience and strive to make your life bigger and better by correcting the mistakes you made in the past and not going back to the horrible place that destroyed the good things in your day to day life.. I think consequences of life are the best teacher if we look at it and learn from it.<p> My wife and I are at the stage of dividing everything up that we own. Have I learned from my mistakes? Did the consequences do it? Yes, I know I never want to go back to that place in my life seeing people I love devastated by the stupid decisions I made. <p> I just want to make one comment on the " I never meant to hurt you " statement. Come on guys and girls. When we had our affairs that is when we decided "we mean to hurt our spouses". Saying I didn't mean to hurt our spouses is like saying I didn't mean to have affair. We were all awake when it happened I hope. I know for myself I was caught up in the lust of it all but I still knew I shouldn't be there. I have since learned through counseling and SAA that I don't have to go there ever again but that doesn't excuse the decisions we made when we hurt our spouses.<p> I think you need to let her fall and leave it up to God to take care of it all. <p> Love in christ,<p> cajunky

I agree with cajunky about the "I never meant to hurt you" statement, it's a bunch of ludicrous crap.<p>Imagine drinking and driving and causing an an accident where people get hurt and telling the judge "I never meant to hurt no one".<p>We are supposed to be knowledgeable and responsable adults not clueless children of what the consequences of our actions are.<p>I'm sorry if I too anoyed any WS's with my opinion but if they were BS's they would agree with my point of view.<p>C-g don't take anything that your WS says to you as true. She is not out for your best interests at this time because if she were she would be busting her [censored] to reconcile with you and rebuilding your marriage.<p>I would suggest that outside improving yourself and your M with a plan A, that you live your life as though she was no longer a part of it. Why? because by doing this you protect what love you have left for her and it smoothes out the whiplash of the roller coaster ride until there is a resolution as to whether there is marital recovery or divorce.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe <p>Joe

This is the message that I see "reading between the lines" ----> "I want you to think I am a good person in spite of what my actions have been."<p>Pepper

HAppy Birthday.<p>Dont give her a reaction on the card. Just say thanks and move on with your day. <p>The "I didnt mean to hurt....." crap is just that its bullsh##. "Your honor, I didnt mean to shoot the bank teller" yeah that'll fly. Brush it off as the ramblings of a person that has their head in the fog right now. <p>I am a BH and I agree with not being there when she falls. If she knows she always has hte net there then she will just keep USING it. <p>anyway, put the card away and have a good day. Dont let her see that it may have effected you negatively.

"I never wanted to hurt you" means this:<p>No, I never intentionally set out to hurt BS, I just never once thought of you. Why don't WS understand that the action of completly blocking out any real thought of BS and the fact that you are married to them is "hurting" your spouse in and of itself in the worst way?

I agree with what Pepperband said and I also agree that you should thank her for the card and then enjoy your day. In the midst of all the junk that goes along with being betrayed you still need to have some happy times in your life. Celebrate this birthday and worry only about making it a nice day for YOU!<p>Happy Birthday!

<<Why don't WS understand that the action of completly blocking out any real thought of BS and the fact that you are married to them is "hurting" your spouse in and of itself in the worst way? >><p>It's easier to not think of this. It doesn't hurt us if we block this out. Not at first - but if we ever (which I'd like to add I have gotten to this point) care enough to look at it we hurt more when we see, feel and truly understand what we had/have become and done. To ignore our spouse and their feelings is devastating to ourselves as well. Sure, we deserve it, we caused it, but that is why we ignore it. It's almost like if we don't give validation to it, then it's not real. However, if we'd really give truthful validation to it, then there would be much much fewer people involved in EMAs. No, we don't mean to hurt the BS, but in reality we have really made the conscious choice to do so, and accepting/owning that is truly a difficult thing to do. <p>Ouch! Yes, hard to stomach, but it's the truth. Took me a few month after d-day to admit this to myself, let alone my husband. I have come a long way. I have long taken off the rose colored glasses, and have chosen to face the truth in the destruction I have caused. It's painful and ugly, but I will patch, mend, and work with it and continue to grow with my husband. Best part, is that now I have chosen to keep my eyes open, to stay educated (so to speak) and to accept the reality of the pain I have caused, and in doing so I know I will never do it again.<p>I hope you appreciate my honesty. It takes a lot to admit this, but I did to help me and my husband, and I have written this here to hopefully help others too. <p>Take care.

I am the BS and I side with some of the WS on this one, stop analyzing so much. You will NEVER know what is going on in someone else's mind. There were probably multiple reasons she sent the card, and no one (not even she without fog) could ever figure them all out - people are complicated.<p>OTOH, I know from experience this is easier said than done, because I've been there. "Does this comment mean we're over???" And the stress it adds is incredible. I didn't know how much stress I was causing myself until I decided to accept his actions and words on face value (with actions meaning a lot more than words). Then wow, what a relief.

[quote]<strong>Original post by tutter13
It's easier to not think of this. It doesn't hurt us if we block this out. Not at first - but if we ever (which I'd like to add I have gotten to this point) care enough to look at it we hurt more when we see, feel and truly understand what we had/have become and done. To ignore our spouse and their feelings is devastating to ourselves as well. Sure, we deserve it, we caused it, but that is why we ignore it. It's almost like if we don't give validation to it, then it's not real. However, if we'd really give truthful validation to it, then there would be much much fewer people involved in EMAs. No, we don't mean to hurt the BS, but in reality we have really made the CONSCIOUS CHOICE to do so, and accepting/owning that is truly a difficult thing to do.
</strong>[quote]<p>
Thanks tutter13 for your insight. The key word is choice and that is why when we hear the statement "I din't mean to hurt you"we react with anger because in the end your choice spoke louder than your words.<p>I had a friend who use to be an 'adrenaline junky'. He was into skidiving, bungee jumping, skying off mountains, riding his motorcycle at speeds exceeding 120 mph. He continued with these activities despite my advice to him that if something bad were to happen to him his wife, kids, and parents would be traumatically affected by his reckless disregard of danger with said activities. He brushed me off and told me that I had become a wuss in my old age (43). Well sure enough, he got thrown of his motorcycle at 120mph and was rushed to the hospital where despite all attempts to save his life, he died. Needless to say his wife,kids, and parents were totally devastated and I am sure that he didn't mean to hurt his family but he made the choice to do so by his reckless lifestyle.<p>Sorry about hijacking your thread c-g and Happy B-day. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Joe<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

CG - Hope your birthday went well.<p>Joe - Exactly! That was the whole point of my post. The thing of it is that it's hard to see that truth. <p>Yes, CG, I too am sorry to have hijacked your post, but it was a topic I felt I really had something to offer. I am rare in that I have done a lot of deep searching and realizations. It's hard to admit these things because they are ugly and I hate the person I had become, but I also think that by sharing them I may be able to help BS as well as some WS.<p>Take care, both of you.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!<p>CF, just take the card at face value and stop trying to read between the lines. Enjoy the day!!!
(((((hugs))))) cl