Ok, for those who may not know, I am the WS. I have spent the last 8 1/2 months soul searching, coming up with all the answers he needed to move forward, answering even those that hur the most to answer, owning my roll, separating from the OM (from D-day on), etc. I have done a lot with and in me. I have been busting my butt to do the things many of you BS are doing - proving this is what I want, this is a good thing, this is what I have to offer, I want to offer what you need and want, I want to fulfill you and make you happy.<p>I just realized this morning that since about Jan./Feb. 2001 my husband was doing a Plan A. Maybe not because of MB, but no mistaking, it was a Plan A. Then D-day came in July 2001. I was basically told to choose, and realized that I risked my husband, my marriage, my family, for nothing. I chose to work at my marriage, and to work hard at it.<p>The past few days hubby has seemed quiet. I've been very lost and feel from his quietness that something is going on in his mind and I've been stressed wondering what. Last night we were talking and he explained that he just feels confused. He is still trying to figure out what he wants - if this is what he wants. So, now I'm lost and confused. I thought it was what he wants. I want so badly to make him happy. To complete his life and be happy together in our marriage, and now, for the first time in his life (his words) he doens't know where he is going. What does our future together look like? I ask myself. It's clouded today. I'm scared of the future right now. I'm scared of his choices. Will he stay? I believe he will, but I want him to be happy. I want him to feel loved and cherished.<p>Last night I was up a lot full of stress and anxiety. Boy, what a combo! Stress causes anxiety, and anxiety causes more stress. Urgh!!! I just wish this shaky tight feeling in my chest would go away. <p>I know this is probably all nothing, and normal down moments, but I needed to put my feelings down and I was hoping that some of you may have some encouraging insights. <p>It's funny how most of you BS's are waiting for the WS to decide what they want deep inside, but here I am the WS knowing exactly what I want, and waiting to see if my BS still wants the same. Funny how the tables turn. Any WS who reads this and is still sitting on the fence, my advice to you is simple - BE CAREFUL HOW LONG YOU TAKE TO DECIDE WHAT IT IS YOU WANT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO IT JUST MIGHT NOT BE THERE!<p>All who have taken the time to read this, thank you.

Hey TutterBug! I'm sending you a BIG cyber hug!!!<p>Sweetie, I don't know what advice I can offer. Obviously I have no idea what your H is thinking. I just think this entire situation has been a roller coaster ride for him.<p>Consider this possibility... While *this* is what is on your mind right now and you are thinking is quietness has something to do with you, it could be that he has nothing on his mind. I know he's confused. Goodness knows it must be hard on him.<p>Try not to over-analyze his quietness. Take what he says for what it is. Don't add anything else to it.<p>It's possible he may not want to work things out. But at the same time, Tutter he has hung in there this long. That speaks volumes! He loves you. He's confused. He is still hurting. I don't know what else to say other than I am here for you and will be thinking of you.<p>Please sweetie... hang in there. <p>Love,
Clear

I agree with Clear...his "lost" feeling may have little to do with you and your marriage, and more to do with other things going on? Has work been tough on him? It just seems like you two have come so far for him to have these doubts still centering around the marriage. Frustration...I can understand...worry...yes...but you're working daily to win back his trust and love...I'm SURE he sees that. Maybe this is just another way for him to "test". To see if you'll wait patiently for him to figure things out, like he did you? I think things will be ok tutter. I've asked you before...are either of you seeing a counselor? I don't think you have yet, last I knew...and if that's the case it may be a very good thing to look into. He may have issues not at all related to the marriage he doesn't even realize. A professional could help him deal with things better than you could. No matter what I'd say just reassure him that you love him and are dedicated to working things out no matter how long it takes. You can't "fix" how he feels...he has to learn to do that, just like you and I had to "fix" ourselves. Take care tutter!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Tutter,<p>From everything I have read this is fairly normal. There has been a lot of work done. Your H probably feels that the marriage can and probably is saved. For the first time he is easing up and thinking "I can have this, but is this what I want?" More than a few BSs have posted similar concerns.<p>My recommendation tonight take him by the hand and explain to him that he surely has a choice but perhaps it isn't just either/or. Most choices are not binary. There is a third choice.<p>That choice is to let YOU lead him, take him by the hand and lead/help him into the future with you. You have learned a great deal. You have looked at your marriage and seen the worst in him (pre affair) and now perhaps the best. You know more about how marriages work. You are qualified to lead him and most importantly you know you love him.<p>Imagine if he had known your thoughts pre A. What would you have liked him to do? My bet is to lead you into a new marriage. You can do that for him now. You DO know his thoughts and you know so much more.<p>So be assertive in a gentle and loving way. The previous poster stated that maybe it isn't all to do with the marriage. It is probably not. I don't know your H's age, but this may have set in motion the MLC. The reexamination of ones life and goals. If this is also the case, then make sure he knows you will go with him on this journey. You want to be part of the solution not part of the problem.<p>Most of the time in a MLC, the person going through it doesn't feel they can talk to their spouse. In your situation you two have been talking and surviving some pretty painful things. My guess is that he will talk with you because you two have been talking so much. You are actually in a good position. You don't need to solve his problems, but it would help if you listened and reassured him.<p>Does this make sense to you. It is a subtle thing to do, but I think you can lead your H into a much better marriage and now is the time. <p>God Bless,<p>JL

{{{ Tutter }}}<p>One of the things WS seldom understand fully is that some things have fundimentally changed for the BS after D-Day. Speaking for myself, this was the hardest loss ---> the loss of knowing that I could trust my ability to know which way the wind was blowin'. My judgement about the weather conditions within my marriage was completely wrong. I was a poor observer whithin my own marriage. I did not have the ability to recognize the sickness existing right under my very nose! I suspect your hubby has serious doubts about himself, his capabilities to recognize what is true, and what is false. That is the damage affairs bring. The knowledge that we, the BS are unable to tell when our spouse is lying to us, and when our spouse is truthful ... that self doubt is very uncomfortable. We sometimes just want to run from the marriage because we have no reason to TRUST our OWN weather reports.<p>It takes time dearest Tutter .... you are doing soooo well. Hang in there. This too shall pass.<p>Love and prayers,<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

Thank you all for your feedback. I so needed it today. <p>Well, I just talked to hubby and he seemed in a pretty good mood. I brought up a little of how I am feeling and he mentioned about how we just bought a pool [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] and he can't help but think that he's putting in work for that and we are putting out this money for it but if something happens between him and I then I have the house and pool (because he would let me and our son stay in the house). Normal thoughts I'm sure. He is communicating though, and that's great. After actually getting it out he seemed more relieved and in a bit better spirit.<p>I will keep in mind all of what you have told me and apply it to keep him feeling positive. I want to keep my rebuilding moving forward. My marriage is showing wonderful signs of being fabulous and I want to keep moving in that direction.<p>Thank you all for listening to me and taking the time to respond. It helps so much. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Have a wonderful Easter weekend.

Wow...that's wild...I just had a "moment" like that the other day too. When I moved out I got a second credit card. I had one for business already, and I wanted one for personal things...I left the other, even though it was a joint card, for the hubby to use. I didn't realize that HE had a second card. Somewhere along the line he decided to try out a GM card, to earn money towards a vehicle someday. Anyway..now, between us we have 4 cards which is BEYOND excessive. We need one for personal and one for my business. Well business has been booming and I don't have enough room on either of my small ones to cover all the ordering I have to do. I looked at our original joint card the other day and it's got a HUGE credit limit. I figured...GREAT...that will become my business card and we can start using one of these other cards and get rid of 2. I told H about it and he kind of hummed and hawed. I said...what? Won't that work? Well...he said...what if you leave me again after you run up a big bill on this card...my name isn't on the other cards. My first thought was to "inform" him that reguardless of his name being on the cards, he could still very well be liable for any charges I make on my other cards...but I just looked at him, gave him a big hug...and said, I'm NOT GOING ANYWHERE!! He just looked at me sheepishly and acted like he felt lots better. I just never even imagined he'd still feel that way...we're doing so well and things are so good. I guess....like pepper said...it just changes that "assumed" comfort. On a brighter note...I got FLOWERS today :-) I've been really bummed lately because my H KNOWS that's one of my "things". He feels loved when I cook and keep the house cleaned...maybe take the garbage out. I feel loved when he does thoughtful romantic things...and he hasn't done anything for quite some time! I was beginning to feel like "here we go again". I held off saying anything and it PAID OFF! He's got it in him!!! Anyway...I think you guys are SOOO on the right track. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks Hope, and congrats on the Flowers. I can't wait to see hubby tonight. I am in much better spirits and he seemed to be too. Yes, that "assumed" thing makes a lot of sense. I'll be sure to acknowledge it in a sense to help he feel a bit more secure. And, if you don't mind, I'm going to steel your hug and comment too. Thanks a ton - everyone!

Hi Tutter!
I don't think that I have posted to you before. But I am a FWS also. I know the feeling that you have. My hubby hasn't actually come out and told me what yours has. But it is always in the back of my mind. I don't understand how he can be so forgiving sometimes, so whenever he has that far away look in his eyes I panic. <p>I'm glad that you two have had a chance to talk about this. I try to remember how much this has rocked their world and they are bound to have some doubts. Keep communicating and give him plenty of affection. I think it will pass.<p>Hugs!
1step

How about.....wrapping up a box all pretty (nothing in the box), with a bow on top and everything...get a sweet card that tells him how much he means to you...write in the card and tell him that this is for the two of you to wear some night alone in the pool [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] hee hee hee

1step - Thanks so much for taking the time to post to me. Yes, I know that feeling of panic - and it gets worse the more you try to control it. Urgh! Anyhow, my day is getting better, and I look forward to seeing him and the weekend together. Thanks for the words.<p>Hope - [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I LOVE IT! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Yup! Yup! Yup! I'm gonna have to use that one. Thanks a ton for the fabulous idea. Not to mention the smile and laugh. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

I hate to be a downer, but I'm afraid what I have to say might be. I do want to preface it with the fact that all of you WS here on this thread probably have better situations than mine since you ARE here on MB, and my H is not. I imagine you are doing way more than my H is as far as recovery is concerned, so my inner perspective may be that--just mine--and have nothing to do with any other BS, but I'm going to share it because I suspect it is a reality for at least some BS.<p>I have thought about it a lot, and I am still not committed to this M. For the time being, I have tabled worrying about that and am just staying in the present because my H has yet to join me in establishing the M we should have established in the first place, so I don't really know exactly what I would be committing to yet, if that makes sense? Kind of like when you are dating and getting to know a person and trying to decide whether or not you can commit the rest of your life to them by forsaking all others and cleaving only unto them in M.<p>But in the back of my mind it still comes to me once in a while that even in the best-case scenario (H follows the MB plan of recovery and meets my most important ENs, etc.), I can never have what I always wanted in this R anymore. What I always wanted was the specialness of exclusivity, the security of knowing he would never leave me or abandon me. He can never give me that again.<p>No matter how hard he tries, I cannot unknow what I know: I was not valuable enough to him to hold onto or wait for (through the trials going on in my life at the time), and I cannot count on him to be there for me when I need him or when I fall.<p>It remains to be seen whether what he does have to offer will compensate for what is forever lost. In the meantime, I just don't think in the same terms I used to. I don't see us growing old together. I just don't see us going the distance. Part of me still wants the fairy tale. I still want true love, and I cannot have it with him. To commit to him, I'd have to close the door on that hope forever.<p>Sorry to be a downer, but this is exactly why I never gave in to my vulnerability to having an A. I valued what we once had and especially what I believed we were capable of having so much that I didn't want to risk losing it forever by having an A. So I went year after year after year feeling rejected and unloved existing on the hope that someday life would be kind and stop piling all the crises on us and we could finally focus on each other and build the M of our dreams.<p>I guess I'm projecting, but knowing how hard it was for me to live that way for so long and knowing why I did it just naturally makes me think he DIDN'T value what we had or have faith in what we could have, so I just wasted all that time I might have been happy. And now, the door to that hope of happiness that I existed on for so long is open, and I don't want to close it.<p>Maybe it's kind of like what the WS goes through in that sense. Even though I don't have a specific man in mind, I do know that there are quality men available who do not cheat on their wives and that there is a chance for me to have what I've always wanted--someone who would truly love me in word and in deed. Very hard to close that door of possibility and choose the certainty of rejection, abandonment, and betrayal.<p>I guess you could argue from where you're standing that at least in your case there will be no more rejection, abandonment, and betrayal, and that may even be the case in regard to my H, too. But once you've been there, you never want to go back, and all things being equal, I'd prefer a man with no history of adultery to a man with a history of adultery. I orginally chose my H on that basis. I never would have married him in the first place if he had done this to either one of his previous Ws, so hard to feel that level of trust and commitment again.<p>I certainly do not envy WS in the position my H is in. No matter what he does from here on in, the toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube, and in a case like mine, where that is my most important need, he can never meet it no matter how hard he tries.<p>Regardless of what any of your BS are thinking, which could have nothing to do with what I wrote above, you are best served when faced with anxieties like this to find the security within you, to build your ability to trust yourself to handle whatever comes along, to know that even in the worst-case scenario, you will be able to take care of yourself.<p>Sometimes we have to reach down and find within ourselves what we are looking for in our spouse. The more you learn to nurture and soothe yourself, the more you will be able to let go of your spouse, and the more opportunities your spouse will have to choose you, and isn't that the best of all when that happens?<p>Hope I at least ended this on an encouraging note. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Conqueror: Thank you for your insights. I don't think of it as a message that would bring me down. I do however feel for you in you pain. You share some things here that may possibly be an issue for my husband as well. To hear it this way tugs at my heart because I place it in my husbands eyes. Thank you for bringing light to these feelings in a way I have not really perceived it. I will however continue to work on my marriage and hope that eventually my husband will feel safe in my promises to him. I know it is hard, and your post is a distinct reminder, but I thank you for sharing with me. I hope that one day you too find the peace and love you are looking for. Me, I wish I had never gone the road I did, but I will continue to walk the road I am on now with my husband so that one day we can develope our marriage into something ever so wonderful.<p>Thanks again. Take care.