I'm probably going to get flamed big time for this but enquiring minds want to know.<p>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?

TD:<p>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>Not true.<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>Of course not.<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<p>This has to be an individual decision. There is no cookie cutter formula.<p>No flame here...I think they are valid questions...<p>E

No, I don't believe ALL marriages are worth salvaging or rebuilding.<p>I think there are a few reasons why one wouldn't be. Like ELad said, just isn't cookie cutter.<p>One glaring reason that stands out in my mind is physical abuse of spouse and/or children.

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>Not me.<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>No<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<p> Individual call. To me, I felt the bais for our marriage was sound, and I was willing to work a one-sided Plan A for 6 months, then I planned to reassess. Luckily it turned around before then....

nah I think we hav all asked those questions...
I bet most of our answers will sound the same.<p>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>No. Not at the cost of any one person or child's physical or mental safety.<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>I think all marriages where two people want it to work and are willing to work on it are salvagable. <p>Yet, if only one person wants it to work or both are unsure, there is still a chance. The chance of success is better if the spouse is following MB principles or another useful M recovery concept.<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<p>Like everyone else says it depends on your personal preferance. For my WW and I we are at 5 months since D day and a few failed attempts at no contact. I have my limit set a little bit in the future (one last good marriage effort) after recently finding out our last 5 months of recovery was just time where the EA continuted.<p>Godbless!
-HI

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TinyDancer:
<strong>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I don't believe that.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Are all marriages salvageable?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>For me,<p>In a M without children of that union:<p>The line for divorce is adultery. The line for separation is if it is necessary for the safety and well-being of self and/or my children from from previous union(s).<p>In a M with children of that union:<p>So far, I'm assuming it will be when the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, especially in regard to my children and my ability to parent them. IOW, as long as I can parent them better within the M, I'm in, but if the duress becomes so great that I would be a better parent out of the M, then I would get out.

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>NO [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>NO [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work? <p>I think it realy has to be an ALMOST joint decision. The pro's no longer outweight the con's, but more than that, when the relationship begins to tear one down physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. God says the ONLY reason for divorce is ADULTERY. why? becuase it is devestateing to every bit of your being and most CANNOT truely get past an affair. It will affect them the REST of their relationship. (IMHO)<p>mercy

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?
I do not beleive it at any cost. At a point there is a limit BS willing to pay for.<p>Are all marriages salvageable?
Nope, not at all. Specially if one side only is working on M or there is a continues contact. It takes two to tango.<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?
When my 2 D started loosing respect for her and my numero uno need of SF has been postpone too long and I can't take it no more [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] ... back to "price to pay". Actually my WW makes it easeir by her filing.

Thanks for answering everyone. My reason for asking is that it seems lately I notice a rash of people who are clearly fighting for a marriage that is over and being encouraged to do so. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what I read but it scares me to think desperate people are being given false hope. I think the MB principles are fantastic and they can and do help get us through the devastation of an affair. Maybe I'm the only one seeing things that way. I am a true optimist but sometimes when I read postings here I can't see that the marriage building is going to change much. Anyway thanks for the answers and if anyone has anything else to say regarding this I would be interested in hearing.<p>[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: TinyDancer ]</p>

Yes Tinydancer there are a lot here that are being encouraged to fight for a marriage that is over. It's always been that way. <p>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost? No they should not.<p>Are all marriages salvageable? No they are not<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work? Marriages can make it through a lot of tough times, even affairs but I do believe that both partners have to really want to work on it. The affair has to end. I think marriages where the cheater continues with the affair has a very high failure rate. They blantly do not respect their spouse. I think the disrespect becomes even stronger when the BS is aware of the ungoing affair and allows it. I also think there are BS's that just can't get over the affair even when the WS is very sorry and is giving the marriage 100%. Being unable to forgive will destroy the marriage. Some focus strictly on the physical aspects of the affair. Most affairs are not about the physical, it's the emotions that the WS felt with the other person. It's about the marriage problems that allowed a WS to stray. I am a firm believer that a strong marriage is as close to being affair proof as it can get. For me,I had an affair during my first marriage years ago. Our marriage and my feelings towards my ex became less and less every year. I was like a time bomb. I've been in my second marriage for a few years now and we use the tools on this site as far as knowing what each other need emotionally....we keep our marriage very strong and because of that I can honestly say that we are as close to a zero chance of ever having an affair that any marriage can get. If two people decide to work on the marriage they need to start fresh and work on the marriage. No rehashing the past or being worried about the future. The key to keeping affairs out of your marriage is to put your marriage, your partner at number one in your life.

TD.
I think most people come here wanting to save their M and advice and encouragement on doing so. Many of us having gone through the tough time do our best to offer support. Hey even those in a "good recovery" remember times when it seemed hopeless. So if a BS comes here wanting to work on the marriage but posts a situation that sounds hopeless, I personally think if that person still has fight left in them to work on the M and it is not a dangerous relationship, I personally will do my best to give them the support they are looking for. <p>Who knows, you know?<p>-HI

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>I certainly don't. <p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>A big fat NOT<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<p>Alot sooner than most on thewse boards I think. I would draw the line at my safety/ health/ sanity and the safety of others being continually compromised by the emotional abuse of an A. Everyone has limits in this respect - mine might be a little shorter than some - longer than others. It is individual 4 sure.

HangingIn<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I think most people come here wanting to save their M and advice and encouragement on doing so. <hr></blockquote><p>True nuf. But some people come here as desperate people as well - people being subjected to gross amounts of pain and asking us if they should continue going through it. In some cases I have read on these boards I think it is wrong to encourage a BS to continue allowing themselves to be beat down further by the abuse a continuing affair - and/or the lack of respect of their WS. As hopeful as this board is - believe me it has helped my M a great deal - there has to be some reality as well.

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>not me<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>no<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work? <p>It's different for each situation. Here's a few "lines drawn in the sand". When the one trying to hold on reaches their limit and can't hold on anymore - or feels satisfied that they gave it 100%, or when the one that wants "out" ends the marriage. Or if one or both parties realize the relationship is UNHEALTHY for anyone involved (parents, kids, etc.) and CAN NOT be fixed through counseling, etc. (abuse, substance abuse, infidelity, etc.) Basically: when all efforts to salvage the marriage have been exhausted.<p>As far as this web-site is concerned, here's some of my thoughts:<p>Some people feeel that they have to give 100% effort, and try anything and everything .... in order to feel satisfied. Knowing that they "tried".<p>Some people tend to give up TOO easy, and need encouragement to keep working. They might assume the marriage is over and walk away from something that CAN be salvaged.<p>Some people remain in "blame" mode - blaming the WS for everything, and WE support and encourage these people to look in the mirror, accept responsibility for THEIR faults, and do everything they can to work on them.<p>YES >> some people hang on too long. But they have to reach their ending point on their OWN. Support, education, and counseling helps them reach this point. Who really knows when it's ok to tell someone to give up?<p>Good questions, TinyDancer. Thanks!<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

VeryHurtHarley & HangingIn<p>In supporting & helping other MB members, if one is following the Harley's Plans in said support (Plan A & Plan B), then by virtue of these Plans purpose, I'd say most support given would and should be appropriate. <p>Plan A is to gain back your self respect in taking responsibility for your part in the marriage degradation, as well as simply being nice to your WS (No LBs). You should gain strength and resolve from Plan A. And if others here are supporting you in it, then I feel that is appropriate behavior. <p>As far as the individual choice to go to Plan B, that, in of itself, is the vehicle by which one would avoid losing any further love for their WS by things like disprespect and emotional abuse.<p>The timeframe from Plan A to Plan B is all based on each individual's circumstances regarding proving their changes to the WS as well as their tolerance of the A's effects on their emotional state, which directly ties to their lovebank balance.<p>JMVHO ....<p>Jo<p>[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Nope - not at any cost. The cost should be determined by those trying to save the M. And I agree that some here would be happier 'moving on' and finding new relationships with people that respect and love them back.<p>Gib

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<hr></blockquote><p>With the exception of cases where someone's life is in danger due to physical abuse, I do. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Are all marriages salvageable?<hr></blockquote><p>With the above exception, yes. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<hr></blockquote><p>Marriages do not "work" or not "work" - leaving a marriage is a choice, NEVER an inevitability. <p>Based on my experience, I would say that in the absence of life-threatening physical abuse, marriage is absolutely better than divorce. Even during the midst of my H's affair, miserable as it was, it was better than after he left. At least the kids still had a father, I didn't have much of a husband but certainly better than none, and we were not in danger of being out on the street and not having enough to eat. If it were up to me, I would MUCH rather suffer through having a cheating, unremorseful betrayer as a husband rather than the situation in which I am now.

How many of us believe a marriage should be saved at any cost?<p>"At any" - no, personally I don't think it should be saved if there is abuse of any kind, and that includes serial cheating, obsessive or deviant porn use.<p>Are all marriages salvageable?<p>Yes, if BOTH are willing to work at it. I believe that one person can get the ball rolling (a'la Plan A) but that one person alone can't keep the momentum going - it takes both.<p>Where do you draw the line and realize a marriage won't work?<p>To be honest, I don't know how to explain "the wall" as I call it. All I know is that I hit it and realized that NOTHING else could be done to save my marriage.<p>I tend to agree with Nellie about the "work" word... however, there does come a time when you realize that you simply cannot continue with this person as your spouse. I swear, I thought I would die if I stayed, and to this day I believe I would have.

Interesting questions, I guess it all depends on what side of the question you are on. I certainly believed that mine was salvageable and every effort should be made to do so. But during the same time period that I was separated, my brother and SIL were separated. My SIL and I corresponded almost daily, bought each other books, small gifts etc, supported each other. But throughout most of that time I firmly believed that she was better off without my brother, he's not abusive but he's a jerk. They are now back together, my SIL stopped corresponding as much with the family, and I'm worried about her. Anyways, my point is, it doesn't matter what I think about anyone else's marriage, my opinion only really counts in my own. Only the person living in that marriage can decide if it's salvageable or worth it. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

While marriages should NOT be saved at all costs and not ALL marriages are salvagable, the choice is up to the 2 individuals in each respective M. <p>So if only 1 is putting forth the effort, than maybe it is not. However, before the towel is thrown in the one trying probably wants to make sure they have given it their best. Once that level of satisfaction is reached then moving on will be attainable. <p>That is why you see so many here trying. Are we to judge that 'that' marriage is over? No. Look around, if you have been here a while, some of the ones in recovery should have never made it there. Others looked like a shoe in but D'd anyway. See life does not make judgements either. So we do the best we can for as long as we can and then we move on. With or without our spouses. <p>What I have learned here it NOT to judge. I never really knew what it was like to be the BS until I was the BS. I knew many who suffered through infidelity but never realized the degree of their suffering. I thought some of them were foolish for trying, while I thought others were harsh. Obviously there was more than met the eye. <p>So there is no clear answer or magic potion. Just a lot of learning, trying and knowing when to stop. <p>Isn't that what getting older is also about? <p>JMHO,
L.