I wanted to continue our discussion from my other thread here. That one was for fog talk.<p>Briefly, my W and I are both excellent parents and our daughter would be fine with either of us.
That aside, I think my W is really struggling with the possibility that she could lose custody. She never expected me to seek custody (although I told her 9 months ago I would) and certainly never thought I had a chance. I think my W would be best served to stop believing that she is entitled to custody, stop trying to convince me (and herself) that I'm wrong or not justified in seeking custody and accept that this IS happening.<p>I've had to go through this same revelation regarding the D. I don't want the D and I think it's a mistake, but it IS happening. I accept that and I'm doing what I can to get the best possible outcome. I can piss and moan that it's unfair, but that doesn't change anything.<p>There are a few bits of info that I think you should know. In January I rec'd a letter from my lawyer in which my W threatened to press criminal charges against me for illegal eavesdropping if I pursued custody. I planted a tape recorder on the phone. Not proud of it, but felt it was necessary at the time. My lawyer scoffed at the threat, and the fact is one thing has nothing to do with the other, but shows some desperation on her part. Also, about 2 months ago I got a phone call from the OM. Among other things, he told me that at one time my W was talking about killing herself. I don't know if this is true (she denied it) or what context it was said in, but it's obviously as cause for concern.<p>I believe I'm quite justified in seeking custody. The biggest difference between my W and I is that I'm not scared of losing. She's terrified of it, and probably concerned that her actions the past 16 months could bite her in the [censored]. If that happens, that's simply the natural consequences for the choices she's made. <p>sad dad

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>In January I rec'd a letter from my lawyer in which my W threatened to press criminal charges against me for illegal eavesdropping if I pursued custody. I planted a tape recorder on the phone. Not proud of it, but felt it was necessary at the time. My lawyer scoffed at the threat...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>sad dad-<p>Just curious. How did your W find out about the recorded conversations? Did she find the equipment or did you tell her? One lawyer told me that this was a definate "no-no" and that this should not be done without consent of all parties involved. He encouraged me to stop ASAP. Any of the parties captured on the tape could sue and I was told that proseccutors in my area would not hestitate to bring a wire tapping case forward.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
I believe I'm quite justified in seeking custody. The biggest difference between my W and I is that I'm not scared of losing. She's terrified of it, and probably concerned that her actions the past 16 months could bite her in the [censored]. If that happens, that's simply the natural consequences for the choices she's made.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>This helped my perspective. Thanks.<p>HoFS

hfs,<p>She snooped in my email. Tit-for-tat I guess. My lawyer doesn't seem concerned about it, but if there are legal ramifications, I'll face them.
The bottom line is it has nothing to do with custody.<p>sad dad

sad dad,<p>I am where you were 5 months ago. My WW is still continuing w/ OM and even file Dv. As your W afraid of loosing the custody so does mine. I will start mediation on the CC this Friday and we shall see.<p>About taping, I did that too and she knows it. We can not use it any info. in legal court. Info. must came out from her mouth or OM's. Just keep your mouth shut about any info. gain and if you want to use it you have to make her say it.<p>Only thing we have to be is patience ... time will reveal HIS will. WW will make mistakes and all we have to do is watch and keep a good journal. Even as liberal as in CA, I have a shot at my 2 D's custody, full physical custody.<p>You have to seek custody since she is the one wayward ... walk out on M !, specially if you are a good dad. If she is a good W & mom she will not have an A before Dv you. I have to seek mine since I saw abandonment from my W and OM has a long history ... 2 Dv, multiple A, drinking problem in the past (maybe started again), accusation of drug use. I do not trust my W judgement.<p>-RH-<p>[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Sad dad...I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or if I'm misunderstanding you....<p>I never said she would be better off with either of you, nor was I saying that either of you have more or less rights. I think you are right on track with 50-50 and I agree that if she won't go for that then she's left you with no choice but to take it to the courts.<p>Yes, I'm sure your wife is struggling with the idea she could actually lose your daughter. I mean, obviously she wouldn't really "lose" her, but that's not how it feels.<p>Lemme give you a little of my background. My H and I struggled with infertility for over 5 years. We finally adopted a wonderful baby boy 1 week before our 6th anniversary. I've always wanted to be a mom, and it's been something I haven't taken lightly. At 10 months old my H and I lost everything to a tornado. We moved into a temporary home and started to rebuild. My depression started about 6 months after that, and that's when I developed a crush on our friend. My husband hadn't take much responsibility for our son as a parent...more like an uncle...until the day he thought he might lose him. Now he's a great dad...I mean absolutly wonderful! ANYWAY...at the point where I was ready to leave, I didn't really care to agree to joint or anything else...he was hardly a dad and I was full of resentment and anger. I was home with our son for 2 years...I had the opportunity to do work (I'm a self employed computer tech) but my H never deemed it important enough for him to stay home with our son. I fought against daycare...just didn't want it. When I did leave...I had to get daycare...but I refused to send him full time. We didn't fight for 6 years to have children to ship him off for someone else to raise 90% of the time. I realize that doesn't work for everyone...but I was willing to do anything to make it work for us. So...what does any of this have to do with you? It doesn't...I just wanted to give you some background on me so you might see where, as a mother, I might have somewhat of a biased view. I love my son...and if I thought someone would/could take him from me...I would panic and I would fight. If I thought my H would have gone for full custody all rational thought would have gone right out the window. <p>So when you say it would "serve her best"...I think that's just a tad idealistic and maybe just a touch vengeful. Thus my post about the possibility that you may in fact have just a bit of fog of your own. You can poopoo it if you want...but I can hardly believe you can seperate all emotion from your decision making. Your only human.<p>She's panicking...and she feels backed in a corner...so yea, she's going to press charges and argue and blame...it's the only way she knows right now. It's not productive, obviously...but that's where she is emotionally...in a confused, counterproductive mode. And I'm sure it's much more than worrying about the events of the last 16months "biting her in the [censored]". That's probly PART of it...hardly the whole.<p>Again...I never said you WEREN'T justified in seeking custody...it's the only choice she's left you. The point of my posts...(and I happen to think they were VERY on topic...you asked if it was fog and I was offering other possibilites, or was the post directed only to those who agreed with what you already believe???)...was that there are other things to consider. I offered the idea that possibly she isn't aware that you feel that she's as adequate a parent as you, that you just have been left with no other choice and only want what's fair and right for your daughter....you didn't answer that. You told ME you are equal parents...have you told HER? Again, I say, what's said, how it's said, and what isn't said...all add to her degree of panic. I know you feel no need to help her in any way, because you are angry and disheartened...but I was trying to convey that in fact doing that might benefit YOU in the long run. When you both quit trying to win...you both will....and while you can't control what SHE does, you can control what you give her to work with.<p>Like I said before...I have a friend who did what she could and her H would still not listen to reason...so I know that sometimes that's the case. I'm just suggesting that you make sure you are doing your part to seperate the anger and dissappointment you feel towards your wife, from the talks about custody. In this day in age she's kidding herself if she thinks that the woman automatically has the right to be the primary custodian...I think the courts will suggest 50-50 right off. I certainly hope that's the case for your daughters sake. Good luck.

Redhat<p>I was very offended by this comment you made: <p>"You have to seek custody since she is the one wayward ... walk out on M !, specially if you are a good dad. If she is a good W & mom she will not have an A before Dv you."<p>While I agree that a wayward spouse is not putting anyone but themselves first...I hardly think that automatically deems the other parent a BETTER parent. That's a bunch of HOOOOOOEY. Seeking custody should NOT be for punishment of the wayward spouse...it's for what's BEST for the kids. In your case, if she's truly been acting the way you describe...then you sound like a more stable environment. That isn't always the case! I was no less of a mother when I was considering leaving my marriage, than I am today. My sons happiness and emotional health was always of concern to me.<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: hope4future ]<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: hope4future ]</p>

h4f,<p>I'm not sure there was a misunderstanding. I just wish my W would acknowledge that I have the same rights as she does, no more no less. I don't expect her to agree with me. But as you said, her responses are based on emotions right now.<p>I have told her that she is an excellent mother and quite capable of providing a loving, happy environment for our daughter, as am I. I told her I want what's best for our daughter, but that I honestly don't know what that is. Custody mediation should be beneficial for both of us.<p>I appreciate your candor.<p>sad dad

She's "on the run" emotionally...I mean, that's the largest basis for an affair...when someone can't handle working things out and chooses to run away from the difficult emotions. As long as she has fuel to feed that fire she won't slow down long enough to see things in a rational way. It took 3 months of things reaching a stable point for me to quit running long enough to start thinking. 3 months of H having his own life and taking care of his own needs without pressuring me to move forward in the D or to "fix" things...3 months of the OM being nothing more than an occasional phone friend...3 months of my friends being mostly absent from my life...3 months of just work, and working on me. Time for my brain to rest and for me to slow down and breathe for a while. As long as you are still hashing out the details of D and custody and all the rest...she won't slow down long enough for a rational thought to creep in. I realize you aren't left with much choice in that area for now. Just wanted to try to give you a better understanding of her side of things. Don't confuse that with me BEING on her side...just that I have been there.

H4F,<p>Very interesting points. That's why I brought up selling the house. It will give us a much needed chance to be away from each other, and is the next logical step. Once that happens, I don't intend to push the issues of D or custody. Maybe it'll give both of us some time to gain some perspective, level off emotionally and just breathe. Thanks again.<p>sad dad<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

SD,<p>Don't know if you are following mine still but, have gone through the mediation thing. She offered joint physical care as long as it worked for her schedule. I was not able to make up my mind whether or not to accept so we keep going forward. Had depositions and found out so much more about her A and about how she has put them in the middle, hurt my relationship with the children, not be cooperative in their medical treatment and care. My eyes were opened. I am at the point where I feel it is necessary to fight for full custody. Biggest problem is that it is an all or nothing proposition. The courts do not typically like to do shared physical care let alone suggest it.<p>W is very angry at me and is very concerned about loosing custody as she should be. I think it contributes to the fog or whatever she thinks she is getting away from me for.<p>Stay strong and let God lead you. I will pray for you as well.<p>John