Me and my husband had a big fight last year after I found out that he went to a table dance bar,I told him if he ever goes back there I would leave him,yesterday I found the bill from the same bar.He tried to denies it.I told him to leave home until I put my head in place.Any thoughts to share it.I have 3 small kids, 4,3,1 year old.thanks

Bless you heart sad mom. The only advice I can think to give you right now, is not to make any life altering decision in the heat of a moment. Try to calm down and think about the consequences of you choice before you make it. I've never had experiences like what you're going through, but the way to rebuild is for HIM and YOU to both want to. It does not have to mean that your marriage is over.

Going to a topless bar is not the problem, it is a symptom of a deeper issue. Both of you get in counseling and find out what his deep issues are that cause him to act out this way. the fact that he denies it says that he agrees with you that it is wrong. You are both on the same page - that is huge. If he was saying: yes he did it and so what, he's not going to stop that would be an even bigger problem. The lies is another issue too. Its kinda crazy to have your signature on a receipt and deny it - my H use to lie like that to. Don't get sucked into arguments of whether or not it happened. It happened you know that. <p>Make counseling a criteria for working on your marriage. I'm sorry your here.

Hi Ilunnprotectme,the worst about the signature is that he tried to fake it saying that he let a friend use his credit card.Anyways I am only worried right now with the future,I think that maybe that is strategies that we can use while separated,like when should we see each other,the kids,I want him out there by himself to see how he will do it without us.I manage everything in the house,kids,and finance.I guess that's a problem to start with.Anyways thank you for your post.

Sadmom,<p>Sorry you are going thru this. My X is a sex addict, and I know how much it hurts when your husband goes to a place like this.<p>There are a few things though before you make a decision like seperation. Could this have been a situation where he went with some people from work or a client and just decided not to tell you to avoid a scene? Not that being deceitful is in any way good, but could there be some sort of explaination for this other than him going somewhere like that just to look at the gals?<p>Maybe this could be something you could offer to do for him to avoid him feeling like he needs to see something sexy. I have done all sorts of things to spice up our sex life in the past. It was actually fun for me too. <p>Just some thoughts.<p>Elizabeth

imho-deceit is NEVER good.

sadmom, by your posts, it sounds like you are counting your marriage over before you ever address the issues surrounding it. Can you look into your marriage and see perfection? Well, neither can any of the rest of us. So what you have to do is begin working on the imperfections. You sound much like I was when my WH had his affair. I did everything around the house and thought that was my job. I did the finances, handled the kids, did the housework, worked 4 outside jobs, worked hard to fulfill my Christian responsibility in my church, was a good friend to my female friends etc. I did it all. Well guess what - HE DIDN'T FEEL WANTED OR NEEDED. And to be quite honest, he wasn't. I was doing it all, why did I need him. And he was so "lazy" that when he came home he was just another mouth to feed, another master to be a servant to. As you can see we had ISSUES!! But we've worked many, many of these out, and believe it or not you can have the love and affection and friendship you lost. Please don't give up to soon. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

HI jamup,
I think you are right,I do everything around the house,and sometimes we fight because I forgot something,for example,a month ago he had a business trip and I usually print a map from the internet for him wiyh directions,so he wouldn't get lost;this time I forgot,I was involved in a volunteer work and didn't had the time;he called me 5 times from another state to tell me thet he was lost and was my fault,and he wasn't gonna make to the meeting on time,and that was a huge traffic,then he told me what are your priorities in life.I got very upset.One time I told him that I don't need him for anything,that I am very independent...How did you work this out with your husband? I need to put a plan together when we start to talk about this,that will be on saturday,I am taking notes from the internet and trying to read some books,If anyone has any ideas,Please let me know

I am sorry that you had to experience this. Have you considered that perhaps your husband is addicted to sex? He knows it is wrong but has no tools to handle it. He feels alone - who would want to admit going to such a places. It is obvious that he medicates his loneliness in unhealthy ways. He needs to feel safe with you. He needs to know and feel true love. He needs your help. <p>Talk to him. Tell him that you love him and you will help him overcome his unhealthy habits. Tell him you are prepared to listen to it all. Spend time with him so he doesn't have time to visit these places. I have discovered that spending 15 hours a week with my W leaves little time for anything else. If he agrees to the concepts in HNHN then I would suggest keeping a schedule of each other's daily calendar. <p>It will be tough journey back to intimacy but it is worth the effort. Count the cost, sadmom, if you are willing you can become a rescuer, lover and the best friend to a lonely man.

I understand this is hard for you. I read the other replies and I just want to add one little thing. Don't be so quick to judge what is wrong in your marriage.<p>Going to a bar like that does NOT mean your husband is addicted to sex. Try to look at it this way...<p>EVEN THOUGH you don't agree just try to look at the other side. Men are more visual than women. They tend to enjoy porn, magazines, exotic dancers, etc more than women do. The fact that he went to that place does not mean he is not happy at home. It does not mean there is anything wrong in the marriage. I think the bigger issue is that he lied.<p>OK, so why did he lie? Because he knew if he asked he wouldn't be allowed to go or you would give him a hard time about it. I'm not saying that makes it right. I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to show you a different side.<p>Just try not to make a major decision because he went to this club. Try to listen to him. Show him that he can trust you to talk about this situation. LISTEN to what he has to say without interruption. Show him you want to understand his reasons.<p>Everyone is different. I am one of those women that do not mind my man going to a club. I have abosutely no worries about it. That's just me. He doesn't hide it from me. And as a matter of fact I usually go with him. He invites me and we have a good time. There are several different clubs in my city and they are all a little different. But it is absolutely HANDS OFF everywhere! <p>Would you consider going with him? It may make you a little more comfortable if you know what really goes on there. <p>Again, I'm not saying what he did is right. Deceit is WRONG!!! Lies are WRONG!!! I hope you and he can talk about this.<p>And I hope I made a little sense in this post. I just wanted to give you a different perspective ~ one you haven't heard yet. <p>Hope you can take *something* from my post.<p>Love,
Clear

sadmom, I have enjoyed reading the other responses to your post. It is somewhat therapuetic for me to just read them and write these entries in this forum. I am not sure that I understand all the reasons I did the stupid things I did that caused my W so much pain. I just think your H is in the fog I was in, that's why he was so careless as to not cover his tracks better. My worldview is religious in nature, but I would consider any sexual activity outside the marriage as harmful to both the offender and the spouse. You are right to insist that he not visit those places.<p>But the bigger question is what's next? Make it safe for him to talk to you. Become his friend. You have already discovered that he has weaknesses, but have you ever really discussed it with him? I guess all I am saying is that it sounds to me like he has a secret life that no man wants but few know how to end. Sure, he screwed up, and you risk more than he does by reaching out to to him. But believe me, the effort is worth it.

I am listening to all of you very carefull,to get most information and advices that I can.The issue about the club is that last year we have been through this and he promissed me that he wasn't going there again ,giving you more details ,the night that I left town with the kids for spring break was the night that he went there with his friends from work,this place is not a HANDS off place,last year when I shared with my friend this situation she told me that she went there with her husband because the same situation ,just to check it out,made me sick and I vomited just thinking about and she told me better not go,she knows me would have destroyed my marriage at that time,my husband is the only man I had in my whole life,if the situation is like this now thta I am young and pretty how is going to be when I am older?H e is out of town now in a business trip I need to get prepared to talk to him,he wants to move out to another state and e mailed me saying that wants to try again and said that this time the end will be diferent. Thanks for your support. Sad mom

sad mom, It is ludricous to suggest that under any circumstance that it would be ok to go to a topless bar. Your husband hurt you. In my circumstance, I needed my wife to help me get back to her. I suggest that perhaps your husband needs the same. If he is like I was, then he doesn't have a clue. You may be wondering what to do as well. All I can say is I think you are in the right place here. Stick with it. Try to open doors with your husband.

sadmom, one of the things I've realized in my marriage is that the more control I get or take, the more I want. So I've become less of a take-charge-aholic. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] At least I'm trying. I would not allow my H to buy anything of substance without a total discussion on it, and usually then I would talk him out of it. But now I realize that I've been buying things for years, a pair of shoes here, a dress there etc. that all totaled added up to much more than his $200 tool, etc he was wanting. I have relaxed some on the money and realized that he has as much right to spend it as I do, and even though my ultimate goal might be to be totally debt-free, that goal might not be his. And as a partner in a marriage, compromise is in order. Not always having things my way because they are the right or practical way.<p>I really had to examine why I had become so independent through the years. Is it because he is UNWILLING to help, or because I'm UNWILLING to ASK for help. Do I take one mediocre response as meaning he doesn't EVER want to help in that regard? When I should more appropriately see that he's not going to be able to schedule that request into his day - he might be able to next time. After my WH's A, he's been much more willing to discuss this, and when he begins to let off some on helping me, I usually wait a day or two to see if he comes around, and if he doesn't, I nicely and tactfully COMMUNICATE with him and so far we've kept things straightened out. <p>One major things that's different now, He does not go to bed and leave me up cleaning house or working. He'll either come ask me to quit and join him in bed or help me out until the task is done! THAT'S A MAJOR CHANGE FOR HIM!!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He's still not good at looking around and finding things to do, but now instead of commanding him to pick up his dirty clothes etc., I ask him. And he in turn instead of leaving them there another hour, he gets up within a minute or so and takes care of it. He doesn't let his other "projects" (internet!!) come first now. What I need comes first now, and I'm careful not to abuse that!<p>I also try to make his helping me more enjoyable for him. I do an assembly job at home. When I do it I can just sit in the recliner and stare off into space while I'm working. (always have my mind working out something!!) Well that bores him, so when he is going to have to help me, I try to rent a movie so that he doesn't get bored to tears.<p>Also, the chores I know he knows how to do, I leave them to be done more often now than I used to. In the past if he didn't do what I asked him to do el pronto, I'd get angry and slam stuff around and do the job just so he'd know I was sacrificing for him. Well, that just made it where there was nothing left he knew how to do. (and yes he could have figured out something else to do, but remember he's a man!!)<p>Maybe none of these examples are problems for you, but maybe you can apply them in some way. And it will be alot easier if you can sit down and find a way to explain all of this to him. It will be easier if he admits he doesn't feel wanted or needed. If he wants to be wanted or needed by you, it will motivate him to make necessary changes within himself.<p>Tell him you want him to be wanted and needed, and here's how...

SadMom,
Going to the topless bar or aging is not going to destroy your marriage...Love Busters will. Not meeting each others needs will.<p>Get the LOVE BUSTER BOOK.....MEMORIZE IT. KNOW WHAT YOUR LB's ARE AND ERASE THEM FROM YOUR LIFE.<p>Then take it to him, ask him to read it and let him know how much you want BOTH of you to have a happy and fulfilling marriage.<p>Use the counselling services here to guide you..call for an appointment...it will help.
T

I am trying to figure out what to do and how to do it ,I sent an email to my H telling him that he needs to see a counselor if he wants to get back to us; he needs to see a counselor,needs to do an AIDS test and need to find peace with the Lord.Then we can start talking...I am planning to tell him to come see the kids whenever he wants,but the condition is call before and I will leave them with the nanny,maybe next week we can have dinner together to figure things out and do that once a week ,depending how things go I let him come back in 3 weeks to the house but diferents rooms,well if he wants to come back,he might choose the table dance bar instead.what you think,does this sound to crazy?Sadmom31( cant sleep for the last 3 nights lost 3 pounds already.)

sadmom, some people might think it's a little radical for a topless bar incident, but I support your decision. Make him play by your rules.(as long as they are reasonable). If he won't, then is he really committed to changing? Do you want to reestablish a relationship with someone who's not willing to address their faults and subsequently change?<p>You've been through this before, and my guess is that you were not as drastic with him the first time. None of us ever are. We want to believe that our spouse wasn't capable of hurting us and therefore when they ask for forgiveness, we are so willing to give it. (and we should). But now he's shown you that it is not going to be a one time incident. Your hard line approach may be just what it takes to make him have a change of heart and ways. Best of luck to you.

Jamup,
thank you for your response, you are right some people are ok with the topless bar thing,my big issue is that one year ago I told him that if he was going to do that again I was leaving him,and anyways I guess he doesn't care or he didn't believed on me.Now I have to stick with my words and see...Otherwise he will do over and over.Thank you.Sad mom31

I wasn't going to reply but I will. I feel a little uncomfortable about talking about it, I realised it was an issue in our marriage. I was raised in such a strict Catholic household, and I basically became petrified of sex and sexuality. <p>My H goes to these places for business lunches (apparently) and he went there for his bucks night - he still has the pictures - I look at them every now and then. He likes mags, movies and the net. The link the the Asian thumbs is still in his favourites. He would always tell me when he went to these places.<p>I guess it was never THAT BIG an issue with me (although I didn't like it), but in hindsight, well, he's in Thailand with thai princess, so maybe I should have checked it out, instead of judging him, but you learn in your own time...<p>I suggest same as others have, make sure you're meetings his needs before you're in the same sorry situation I am. Don't judge what he tells you about why he likes to go there otherwise he will shut down and you won't learn anything-and that's what its about, right? Yes, its a blow to your pride to find out he went there, I told my husband if he ever had an affair I would leave, for some reason I'm still here waiting... <p>His reason may be as simple as he likes sexy women to dance topless in front of him (if my H said that was all he went there for I would learn how to do it for him so he wouldn't need to go anymore!!!!!)<p>Its true that a lot of people find it repulsive, I did, but since d-day, I went into his links and had a look - I want to be his fantasy and want to learn how to be that if he decides to choose our marriage and stop being such a fool. If he dosen't wake up, then the next guy will be very very happy! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I've told him before he went to Thailand that I enrolled in a bellydance class - it did bring a smile to his face!<p>As I said, each to their own, I know many are repulsed by blatant displays of sexuality (I used to be, but hey there are more repulsive things than that in the world), but since I turned thirty and since d-day things have changed, and I've actually found that acknowledging that I actually have sexual feelings and fantasies has been not only liberating but a lot of fun! I'm not ashamed to say that I have them anymore. YAY!<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

seahorse,
Iam sorry to hear about your situation,it seems that a lot of us have the same problems ,it helps a lot to hear everyone story and advices.I hope that your H realizes what a mistake he has done and return home soon,lets pray that happens soon.Thank you for your reply and I understand why it hurts you when you bring up this subject.Anyways,my husband is back from his business trip and he was happy to see the kids,He had his suit case in the trunk of his car and I told him he could stay in the baby"s room,my mom advised me to let him stay in the house but is worse to have him out there free to fly...since yesterday he hasn't say anything and when I brought up what his plans for our lives he said he is looking for a new job position so we can move and get a new start..That's all he said...Then I got the kids in bed and waited to see if he was going to have a conversation ,10 minutes later I went to my baby's room and he is asleep like an angel!!!! I hate this I didn't do anything wrong and I can't sleep ,eat,I am tearfull all the time and he doesn't care...I am the one looking for some help on the internet for our marriage and he is there asleep,what's the matter?Do you think that he didn't realize how major is this?Because I let him stay in the house he thinks that I will forget everything?What should I do if he doesnt star this conversation,Please give me some advice.Anyways he asleep again after a great day with the kids and I am here searching for some help for our marriage.I will wait for your reply.Thanks