I am so angry right now - well, actually it began two nights ago. <P>For those of you who know me, you know that I am the betrayer, although I've been betrayed also. You know that I've felt deep remorse for my affair, which was short and produced one sexual experience, during much of which I cried. I work with the OM. Okay enough history.<P>Two nights ago, my H and I were laying in bed when he decided to drop a little bombshell on me. He has been visiting some places without his wedding ring on. He visited a church that he would not let me go to with him because he met a woman who went there and she had given him "a meaningful hug" and he wanted to know what it meant. So he didn't go to see Jesus, he went to see her. Then he told me that about three weeks ago, he twice went to a bar after work, without his wedding ring. First off, he works nights, always has, so he was out around midnight. He said that he met a woman, but didn't "do" anything, but felt guilty because he might have if she had initiated something. <P>Some may feel I deserve this crap, but let's face it, my H cheated on me with two women 12 yrs. ago (mostly emotional, but slight physical - kissing, copped a feel or two), and nobody would say he deserved my affair 12 yrs. later. <P>I am very angry, although I am suppose to be happy he actually told me about his little visits. Here I am baring my soul and trying like hell not to show him the withdrawls I went though, and for what? So he can go out and get me back?<P>I don't know WHAT to do with this anger because if he sees it he will leave me. He's been threatening to do it, and I feel like it's all up to me. He won't go to counseling, he hasn't been honest... I'm frustrated and hurt. <P>In the meantime, I have to work with the OM, (which is AWFUL) and I'm getting those emails from his SO that call me whore and scare me, and some think I deserve it because I was the OW. Nothing is ever that black and white, you know? One thing I find interesting is that friends and co-workers who know say they never understood that the OW could be so miserable and... well... hurt. They say they thought it was all peaches and cream being the OW, reeking havoc on the H family. I am a mess... a total mess... <P>PS... as a nice little addition to my story he also told me something interesting today about how he's feeling attractive again now that he's learning how to flirt. For example, he says, he flirted with two women last night at work and he thoughtfully showed me how he did it!! How is this suppose to make me feel? Yeah, maybe he is just telling me to make me feel jealous, maybe he didn't actually do it at all, although I honestly think he did. Either way, I think it's sick and mean!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 11, 1999).]

new_beginning - <P>I'm really sorry for you. Being a man, a thought occurred to me. Is it possible that your H is making up these stories to see what your reaction is? I realize he may be relating true adventures to you, but it is possible that he is just trying to inflict a little pain.<P>After all of the time that has passed since his affair(s), one would think that he would know where you are coming from and would at some point be able to be there for you as he has first hand experience of what you are going through.<P>Except for the betrayed, why is it that the OPs get by mostly unscathed in this. OM's SO should be angry with him not you. I am somewhat angry with W's OM, but I don't hate him or hold him totally responsible, after all, W made her decisions he didn't force her.<P>You should try to find a way to wall yourself off from OM and his SO. You need your strength to deal with H. When he works thru his strong emotions about the betrayal, he will realize what he put you through years ago and hopefully will be a little more understanding.<P>Hugs and hopes to you. Be strong, you are worth the effort.

NB,<P>I'm so sorry to hear about what's going on. You certainly don't deserve this, no one does, but it sounds like your H told you this because he is trying to punish you in some way, however unjustified that sounds. Right now he should have a wake up call to rebuilding, and it sounds as if he's trying to hurt you on purpose, which is terribly wrong. Kind of seems like he wouldn't have told you, had he really wanted to be with another woman, perhaps maybe he's trying to guage some type of reaction in you to see how you feel about him, I don't know. It's too bad he won't agree to counseling, or talk openly regarding his feelings about this. It sounds as if you are trying very hard to get back on track, and it has to be hurtful and frustrating for you (e-mails and what he's told you). Have you been to counseling for yourself, even if he can't attend? It may help you work through these feelings, even if he will not go. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but wanted to let you know that I understand.

I added a PS, wanted you all to see it.<P>Thanks...

I, like you, had an affair but nothing sexual came out of it. I still work with the OM and I know exactly how hard it must be for you. My H still throws it in my face at least weekly, and this happened nearly a year ago. The more he does the more it makes you want to leave. You don't have to put up with being treated like that. Sometimes I feel that it would be easier to leave than to endure one more comment. Sorry I don't have more to add

yes, some days I feel like that too... but I keep on pluggin' in there. Today is a very bad day for me. Possible because I am very emotional during "that time" (sorry guys) and just can't muster my usual outgoing, positive demeaner.<P>I'm tired lately. I went to the store and cried all the way home because I feel very alone right now. I trust nobody and I'm hurting more than ever before. I know what I did, and I'm paying for it... over, and over, and over, and over...<P>

NB,<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I don't really have anything comforting to say except hang in there. Your H loves you, and you both are bound to make a few mistakes along the way while rebuilding. As long as your hearts and heads stay in the right place, you will be alright.<P>Patience. Time. And FORGIVENESS. When your H makes a mistake, forgive him just as you want him to forgive you. You're not perfect, he's not perfect, but the two of you have overcome too much to let the bumps in the road stall you. <P>You'll get through this bad day, and other bad days, because good days are right around the corner. Hold onto that<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

thanks everyone for your support and kind words. I really am beginning to wonder what I'm doing here. <P>Then I just read Rutgar's post and I can see why it is happening. Although I can't say that it makes the playing ground equal, I think it just adds to the problems. I wouldn't say that to Rutgar right now though because he feels so bad. I can understand that, the feeling bad part.<P>I just wanted to check in...

Sheryl,<P>I'm chiming in late on this thread... musta missed it earlier. Anyway -- hey girl! Take it easy on yerself! One of these days your gonna have to forgive yourself for what you did. Still sounds to me like you have a heavy burden of guilt on your shoulders. <P>Hope your having a better weekend than the start.<BR>--andy

Hi there,<P>I think you answered some earlier posts of mine. Well you husb sounds just like my exhusb and I am sorry you have to deal with that. My ex would and still says, it's an ego thing. Seems even though they both cheated on us first, then we errored, they like to let us know that there are women who still want them, and like to feel it would only take a phone call to get them. My ex also says he has confidence in himself and too bad I dont have it the same way. Makes no sense to me for them to tell us about it. Oh and my ex did mention after blabbing to me like yours one day, that he was also testing me to see how I would react when he told me these things. Who the Hell do they think they are to be testing us?<P>My heart still bleeds here, and mostly my fault because I still love him and wanted to work out our problems so we can one day be married again. Therefore I made it possible for him to tear at my heart again like a fool. Was really a waste being he told me even if problems were fixed that there will not be another marriage, but I can eventually if and when he sees fit go back home to be his live in lover (shack up honey). Well golley geez, I dont f*#@+n think so!!!! Even though my mouth slips alot here lately, I still have some morals about me. Used to not, but now care about me a little more.<P>Dont know how to tell you to cope with your so nice husb, because I obviously was not strong enough to. Maybe God will listen to you if you pray. Never hurts, even so I will say one for you.<P>

hey airheart... how's it going?? Hello also to Bluestar...<BR>No, not much better by Sunday night, but easier, I guess. H is planning to move out around the first because he wants to go out and see what it's like to be "with" someone. His affairs were emotional, a bit physcial (like I think I said earlier). What can I say to him to make him change his mind? I know what he means, he's curious, and he wants to know. I'm trying not to love bust, but frankly, I nearly told him to just skip it, move out and I'd file for divorce myself. I cried and cried last night, and felt a bit better today, but not great. I tried to make this marriage better, and I guess he is too, in his way. I just don't think he will ever forgive me. So, in the meantime I try not to lovebust, hang out here instead of thinking about the OM (which, trust me, feels pretty good when my H is pushing me away - and I won't act on the thoughts, but geez, I am so lonely and scared) and mostly just try to keep the faith that my marriage will survive all this. <P>Keep on praying for me... I need it!

Sheryl -- Dang! I feel so bad for you! Your husband actually said he was gonna move out? Wow, I didn't know it was getting that bad. That stinks!<P>Well, you are a pretty strong person! You will find a way to pull through one way or the other!<P>I don't know what you should tell your husband other than - if he moves out and starts experimenting with being "with" someone, it's gonna be awfully hard to rebuild your marriage again. It's gone through enough trauma as it is! I mean, he is risking losing you for this... is it really worth it to him? Is this his idea of "making the marriage better?"<P>--andy

hey andy, <P>I KNOW!! Thing is, and this may be more than you want to know, but he was a virgin when we married and I was not. This has been rankling (is that a word?) at him since the beginning 20 yrs. ago, you know? Then he didn't actually sleep with his affairs, and I did, so it just added to it.<P>Yes, he said he was moving, but this morning he changed his mind sorta... geez, I don't know! Last Friday I printed the reasons I love my H post and read him mine about him, and then he told me about the bars without the wedding ring thing. Go figure. I'm not perfect, but I have been trying. He's a good man in many, many ways... he is just driving me nuts lately. I'll keep fighting though...<P>On a side note, actually talked to the OM Friday (out in public at work, not a private place) who said he wondered if he'd made the right decision to stay with his SO and I about YELLED at him that it was RIGHT!! Very stressful few days...

Well, I guess I understand a little where your husband is coming from too. I wasn't a virgin when I got married, but I did get married very young (at 21). I never really got to "sew my wild oats"... But the grass is always greener on the other side. Most of my single friends would love to be married! Strange, eh? Your husband has really gone through the gamut of emotions hasn't he -- first he was constantly harassing you at work and reading your journals, now he's threatening to have a revenge affair and move out... I'm sure this is all just his hurt coming out more.<P>meanwhile, ack... sounds like it's still torturous being around your OM. I wish it wasn't so hard for you to find another job in your area. Keep in mind that he is also going through his own withdrawal thing too. Yeesh, what a mess.<P>glad your hanging in there! <BR>--andy

Andy,<P>By the way, how is YOUR new job going??<P>Yes, what a mess... was it you I told my new favorite movie quote??<P>"Don't sh*t where you eat" Olympia Dukasis (sp?) in Moonstruck. <P>Now I have to work here and deal with all this... WHAT an idiot I was. My field is VERY specialized and unless I want to make $6.50 an hour being a receptionist or something generic (for which I am massively over-qualified and would not likely get it for that reason alone) I just won't be able to find anything. Very limited area all the way around. My 18 yr. old daughter can't even find a job at McDonalds!! It really is that bad.<P>Thanks again for your support and for telling me to knock it off and give myself a lift... how right you are... just hard to do...<P>~Sheryl

Sheryl,<P>LOL!! I love that quote. My personal favorite movie quote is from "Get Shorty" -- but I won't write it here cuz it has WAY too many "F" words in it (doesn't have anything to do with the situation anyways... ).<P>I haven't actually started my new job yet. Starting on Wednesday. I'm still on my little vacation. I anticipate after Wed, I won't be able to post as much as I do now. bummer. (cuz I'm kinda addicted to this board!)<P>During the worst of my withdrawal, I always grabbed a sci-fi (or fantasy) book and read to keep my mind off my troubles. Do you like reading? It's a good way to escape for a while...<P>--andy<P>

Love love love to read, Andy. Problem is: I work here full time with the guy and by the time I get home it's two hours of new withdrawls. Plus, H isn't home 'cause he works nights and I have nothing but time to think. I know, I need to STOP THAT, huh?? <P>I envy you staying home and getting your head together!

Sheryl - one thing I don't get... It seems to me like you're not particularly fond of the OM anymore, and in fact you don't even know what you saw in him. Maybe I've got my facts wrong about that, but if this is so, then why do you still feel withdrawals? Is it just the way he made you feel while you were in the affair? Cuz for me, if I had bad feelings about the OW, or if I thought she was a really bad person, then I think I'd be able to forget about her much easier.<P>I can't use the old argument of "she must be bad cuz she fell in love with a married man"... cuz hey, that's exactly my sin as well... so I'm stuck with all these fond feelings for the OW. I still wish like hell that I never fell in love with her so I could still be her friend.<P>What's the case with your OM? Are you just forcing yourself to dislike him (like poor poor Facing Choices does)? Do you really still feel fondly for him? Do you still love him on some level?<P>Re: reading -- That was my exact situation: I worked with OW during the day and felt REALLY bad. I brought my book to work and would read during lunch. Then at least my lunch hour was bearable. Then it was back to work and feeling sh*tty again. Then home, where I read some more. It wasn't a cure-all, but it was helpful some of the time. See, when you're at home, that's when you need to occupy yourself, 'specially if your hubby ain't home! Reading certainly helped me occupy my mind.<P>--andy

andy,<P>as far as the OM... no "real" feelings left, per se, but somewhere inside of me, especially when I'm feeling unloved by my H, there is this little tiny piece that wants the feeling back. OM still "wants" or "loves" me (and I put that in quotes because I know he doesn't realize which, if either,is true for him but he thinks he feels both). Like I said, I yelled at the OM Friday, but more for myself than him. We were friends first, and I do miss that with him. I miss him. That doesn't mean I want him back. I don't. You know how I feel about that. But yes, occasionally, especially when H treats me bad (for lack of a better word) I feel that fimiliar twang of withdrawl. <P>Didn't mean to confuse you... sorry. I'm confused myself. I have to keep telling myself that I'm doing the right thing, that I must forgive my H, that I must forgive myself, that I have to move forward. When I told you I envied you, I meant it. If I didn't have to see OM so much, I think it would be easier - think? I mean, I KNOW!!