well, it's me. was recommended that I come visit you nice folks in GQII. i must say that i'm not glad to be here, but really glad we are all here and that there are people out there praying for the same problems that i face, and helping each other tackle the most important thing in life: LOVE! whew, so sad to see so much pain, and to have to live it only seems like a dream sometimes. why does personal growth have to hurt so much!? <p>well, for those of you not farmiliar w/ my story, here is a link to a synopsis of it:<p>STORY<p>and <p>CONTINUED<p>so here i am. only spoke to her a week ago when I got the rest of my things and dropped of our little dog (1 of 2). life seems so empty and new now. i would do anything to have the wife i once 'thought' i knew again, and it's so sad to see the metamorphasis she has made in the last month!<p>this was so rushed, she took down ALL the pictures in such a hurry, that it seemed all too strange. like she was RUNNING away from a bad dream or such. <p>so here i am. served papers 10 days ago, and just waiting for a default judgement in 6 months. really sucks to be so helpless at this point. she is very nice to me, just hell bent on changing the course of OUR future in a pretty drastic way.<p>feels like I married a teenager all of a sudden! and now she's just tired of her boyfriend and wants to go try something new. <p>hope there are wise words here, and just really hope I get a chance to love again! (hopefully my wife!)<p>Jon

Jon, it is tough when the one you love throws you out, and says they are tired of you and want to find a new life with someone else. I know, my WH is saying that to me. He doesn't want me, this is rejection of the worst kind. He doesn't see it as rejection cause he had the fun with the OW, and I had to hear his sexy talks on the phone with the OW outside our bedroom window. He didn't even have the courtesy to keep it out of our house with our kids living here.<p>I will probably never marry again, I just want a friend to cuddle, talk, touch, do things with, & sex. I will never let anyone take my heart like SNL has taken my heart, and ripped it in half. The betrayal is so hard, and I feel there will be no one I will trust again to give totally again. I thought SNL would be the one, but hey he had fun and now doesn't care to keep the marriage, and doesn't really show much concern for the whole family as a whole. He talks about me, me, me. <p>As far as the pictures and things, I am keeping them up, but not for long. Probably take the family ones down next month. Will keep the kids pictures up, but take the painful ones down. Yes, the animals get torn up with separation too. The whole family gets screwed because of one individual. We have 4 older kids, 4 dogs, 2 cats, 1 bird, 1 guinea pig, and 6 horses. A lot of history here, that is going to get burnt to the ground.<p>Talk to the people here, they might beable to help you. I have been helped, but I need professional help, and realize that I do. Would be nice if SNL got professional help, but he thinks he is okay the way he is. Sorry if I am of no positive attitude to you, but this has been a very lousy day. God be with you, and with all of us.

Hi Jon,<p>So glad you showed. The board is a bit quiet on week-ends. But I'm sure you'll get replys soon.<p>I do have a question for you. Is there a third party involvment in your situation? <p>Jo

Sorry to hear bout your troubles. You will recieve good support here. Follow the plans, and hopefully you will get your life and wife back on track.<p>Pardon me, Jo? You still up?<p>Elizabeth

Resilient,<p>unfortunately i don't know 100%, but about 99.2% sure that there is no one else. i just really believe she thinks that life hasn't been what it ought to be, and is spreading her own wings. <p>damn her for doing this! damn her for ruining the dream we all have. <p>jon

JON,
I see and understand the hurt in your posting. I have been there, feeling like your wife was going to pick you up with the car and you see her driving towards you and instead of stopping to pick you up, she swerves, hits you, and leaves you laying there while she drives off.
Looking back, the hardest thing to do is not fill your mind with mean thoughts or to hurt her back.
Plan A is the way to go. You work on you, distract yourself from your pain, and make yourself the best you can be. Not to win her back, though it might. Show her you still love her without being clingy or needy. Go for walks or run, workout, get those endorphins pumped into your system. I can tell you they work better than drugs. Get rest and eat what's good for you, with some good stuff to treat yourself. Pray. Keep a optomistic attidude as much as possible. Don't play the part of the victum. You have a right to feel angry. You don't have a right to hurt her with it. Anger directed her way will push her away and "prove" you don't love her, It will reenforce her mixed up ideas. Make yourself the best you can and be as kind as you can to her. Don't make her choices so easy. The time away from you then is unpleasent. Relearn how to talk to her without lovebusting. It is a good skill to have.
Good luck and God bless.<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Daniel ]</p>

thanx daniel,<p>gotta take a huge breath this afternoon and meet her for coffee or such to get bills straightened out and finalize taxes. she still hasnt called me, but only emailed.<p>ciao,<p>Jon

Are you sure there is no one else. Only reason that I'm asking it that it's very unusual for someone to act so quickly when there is nothing to run to or really run from.<p>I jsut read the book "Dumped" - you can find a review on Amazon.com, but it characterizes out situation. We've basically been dumped!<p>It's a different empotional situation than when two people come to a mutual agreement to get divorced. <p>The book had steps to take after you've been "dumped" but it also focused on the usual reason for the dumping - which is an affair.<p>I wish you didn't have to go through this too. The main thing is don't let your WS push you or rush you into anything. There is plenty of time to take care of everything. And don't make any major decisions until you've had time to think about the effect on YOU. <p>Your WS is not thinking about you at the moment, so you will have to, whether she likes your decisions or not. Get advice from whoever you need and stick to your guns. I was always afraid of what my WH would think about my decision or his reaction to my decisions, and let me tell you - that is the easiest way to get the short end of the stick. <p>Make sure you are also taking care of yourself emotionally. <p>Take care. K

well, another chapter:<p>she called this afternoon and said she could meet at coffee shop to go over remaining taxes and get mail to me. so i nervously got ready and went down there. i said a deep prayer right before i drove up, and then went in and met her. <p>sat down, and she asked where we should start. i pulled out a phone bill and the tax forms. showed her the phone bill (from OUR apt.) and said we could split it 50/50. she said that bill was from when she was out of town on her job training the whole month and that it was 'my' bill since she wasnt around to use the phone. i shook my head when i realized what this was going to turn into. I then brought out the tax papers (tax guy messed up and we owed another several hundred) and showed them to her. since we have already split all assets, and she makes almost 3x what I make, I told her that the fair thing to do would be that I take 1/4 to 1/3 of the total bill, and she would pay the remaining. SHE DID NOT LIKE THAT. I didn't really know what to do. I didn't want to argue, but I'm still a working student, and she makes the $$. I want to be the 'man' but realize that if she wants this to ONLY be a business transaction, that her financial obligation is greater than mine.<p>she COULDNT believe I would be so petty. I didn't want to be!, but was forced into this corner where i've got to cover my [censored] and be able to finish college now on my own! <p>I tried so hard to avoid confrontion and to NOT really dig into HER! finally I just had to go outside and sit in my car and take a time-out. she came out several later, and we continued. <p>well, i asked her if I could talk on a deeper level to her, she agreed. i sat in her car, and asked her (very politely and earnestly) why and when did she get so much resentment towards me. it was just a few weeks earlier where we were kissing like newlyweds. she said that it's been a while that she's felt not-loved. that she feels I neglected her when she was putting in 70 hour work-weeks at one of her previous jobs. that she felt like I was the one making decisions and that it was always about ME!<p>whew, tough stuff to take from someone you love! I told her how that must have been a horrible burden for her to take. and that I TRULY was sorry for playing the part that I did to make this situation a reality.<p>well, i could go on and on. we talked for about an hour. was NOT a very pleasant talk, but good to get it out in the open. the disturbing thing is how resentful she feels towards me. the negative feelings she holds is ASTOUNDING! and VERY painful! She dropped this on me, and now is REALLY hell bent on this happening. she keeps telling me how she wants this to be as easy as possible for me, that's why she didnt get a lawyer and such. I told her that easy on me would be counseling and a specific separation period and THEN divorce. I told her this sudden move was NOT on my easy list.<p>I don't know what to say guys. i'm just as confused as I was several weeks ago. although now i have some more concrete answers to go on. she feels like i'm taking advantage of her financially. i don't have the time to go into that, but i'm not even going for alimony! I feel like I'M the one getting screwd! I mean, who's got the answers here!????<p>well, i tried my darndest to not lovebust too much. I held my lip so many times that it HURTS tonight. I think it's swollen [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I tried to keep the conversation cool and positive, and I think I did alright. I ended the night offering a hug at her place. I had to pick up my TV and stereo, and I offered to leave it there until she got one. she quietly said for me to take it.<p>man, this stuff just isnt easy. it's SO painful sometimes. it' s just really hard to understand why she is really resentful.<p>well, i don't know if I did this post justice. it's kind of how my day went! it's hard to give you all the full picture, and her story could be totally oppisite. that's really why I want counseling so that we can 'agree' on stories [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] and now i'll have to deal w/ people I know hearing different stories from her maybe?? I don't know what to expect, but I should be bigger than that. <p>sorry for rambling. man, i think the ring is going to come off soon;( <p>Jon

Jon,<p>This is just my opinion and you probably will not
like what I am going to say but here goes. Something does not seem quite right here. As soon as your wife is making the big bucks she turns a
180 on you. From your messages it seems pretty clear she is determined to divorce you and move on for greener pastures.
My suggestion is for you to contact a lawyer immediately and file for alimony. My friend what do you think she would have done if the roles had
been reversed? Say you the husband were making three times the amount she was making and she was struggling to finish college. There would be no question that you would and should pay alimony.
Where is the difference? I am sorry but we supposed to live in a legally equitable society.
I really believe your wife is playing you for a sucker. You need to complete your education and your wife is now in a more favorable economic situation than yourself. The laws are in your favor because in this case the laws should be unbias gender wise. <p>In the immediate future your wife will be living the good life and you will be struggling and possibly be unable to finish your education. Is this fair? Face reality and get a lawyer and save yourself because she has made it quite clear what she plans to do. I wish you luck.

Jon, I did not get your flying pics to load... but I too have studies for my pilots license and flown quite a bit... I grew up flying as my dad is a pilot.... it has been great... I put off training abit while on some rather strong meds... for an injury to my back... car wreck... same injury that is big part of my marriage break down... my h does not like injured me ... while I recover... may I add.. that has made things harder... ???<p>You are very strong, and it shows... keep it up... I know you feel overwhelmed and weak at times... too. I am sorry your wife has kind of gone to the extreme... I am a bit older... but not much,33, and I have 2 boys age 3 and 9 who keep me busy, but also have pain and confusion to hsare in this seperation mess. My H had an Affair...if I did not find out, he would of never told me... he blames his A and his leaving me on how I treated him..... well, well, must be nice... that he did not have anything to do with the state of our marraiage? Many wspouses are very selfish and self absorbed at the time... have strength and plan a as much as you can and she may come home... hopefully, if not you will be stronger and better as a person. <p>You are an attractive and nice guy... I did see the pics from the brewery... so there are some ofther issues here...<p>You did mention she used to make more money... NOw, I can relate to that one with my h... I worked harder, and have 2 degrees as well, ba and mba... and I have worked hard to move us forward financially much to my chagrine.... I have painfully been disappointed in my H and the lack of committment or work he has put into our financ. well being... very imporatnat need for women...<p>You may want to look at the section... there is a link on front page of mb site to questionnaires... there is one on emotional needs, and one of love busteres... you need to get familiar with these terms... if your wife will not fill out the em. needs Ques. then do it from her perspective, and try to work on meetingher needs as much as she will let you... sad but women do want to be provided for financially, perhaps you are doing much better now... but her new found increased income and freedom looks to have a lot to do with her filight and attitude... also perhaps there is an affair you do not know about... if she has been gone so much, and has had the thoughts about seperation...e tc... div... while on the road..... <p>well, sorry to be negative... but my H also left when his income doubled and I was happier than ever that he was supporting us... at that time I was stay at home mom and recovering from injury but my H still does not get it... I guess we never discusssed it... he seemed angry not to come home to martha stewart... and he wanted me to throw a party for his new found success.... well, my attitude was it is about time.... we had been through yrs. of financial strife... when i pulled the load... i figured he could take care of me a little while I focused on kids... and my reocry... NO, he got angry and resentful... thiunking I was home eating bonbons... and found a girl at the office, office slu_ might I add,a nd went for fun with her... and left me home wondering... saying he was working late, etc... well, what is the truth, here? IT is so sad.. as financially we both are in the hole... now, very sad... he has been laid off,etc./ we have been apart alomost 7 months... and it is very hard... but I do think reconciliation is in the works....<p>be glad you r state has a waiting time for the D... and there are even reconciliations after the d... try hard to meet her needs... and be the best yuou you can be... be like you were when she fell in love with you... maybe she needs more respect? she likes her on the job? think about what she needs and give it... do not be clingy , etc....<p>be open to reconciliation, but keep your self respcect... come here an dpost... and grow... this is a good place...
You will be ok.<p>I am so sorry for your hurt... i can feel it all the way in houston, tx.<p>You are a good man. keep trying for what is right, go to church and pray .... ho-pefully she will wake up from the fog...<p>I still have a lot of growth to do, but it has gotten more bearable... I am on anti depressants... that may help if you have high stress or anxitety... depression over this... thing to consider.... <p>take care of you, and remain yourself.. but grow...<p>there was something else I wanted to tell you... I was forgetting but now it comes to me...<p>I read a book about divorincing and it says what a big decision this is... and that it should be carefully considered... i t sd this is somthing you should really think about for about 3 months before any acvtion is taken... well your wife has filed for the d... and you still have time... ask her... please to consider going to 3 months of counseling... 12 sessions... just to talk about how ti will be divorced,... and how you could rebuild if she were willing... this is what I did... when my h was definite for the divorce... well, he has come around alot... <p>he went to about 6 sessions... and plans to attend more... but not yet... I think this will save us... he did get upset at the counselor when couns. questioned h's role in problsms... and that is when he quit going... so , whatever... but he will come back... soon...<p>I hope... just a thought... my h did go after I asked for just 3 months of consideration.<p>hugs to you, H
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Morning all.<p>BryanP: I asked her to close her eyes yesterday and imagine that it was me w/ the degrees and well-paid job and she were in school working part-time. And if I just left her, what would be expected of me? She didn't like that thought, and wouldn't go there. She said that this is about US! So I think the day I go for alimony is the day I give up on our marriage. And I don't really have to worry, she REALLY doesn't have a lawyer and made a pretty big mistake on the D papers by not making sure I wouldn't be able to get spousal support or anything else in the future. My friend/lawyer said that I could go for it even after D is final. So it will ONLY be an emergency plan. I will be fine, and feel better if I do this myself and don't hide behind her financially.<p>She thinks that I'm trying to screw her, and I think it's because she really doesn't have a concept of the $$ she makes. I was in charge of all finances in our family, and have more concept of that stuff. I told her several times in the last few weeks that even if I took her for everything she was worth, that it wouldnt be ANYTHING that she wouldn't erase in 6 months! I, on the other hand, don't know if I'll have a job in 8 months and still have a year of school. My parents went bankrupt and moved from upperclass-ville to a single-wide trailor across the country as missionaries. I really don't have ANYTHING to fall back on except friends and extended family, and it is a BIG insecurity that I have.<p>Honey:<p>thanx for the reply and the insight you give. you liked my brewery? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] yes, my wonderful mother asked me if I was drinking more, and I had to tell her that in fact no, I actually made a horrible addictive personality type person and that I hadn't had a beer in several months for no real reason. . .BTW: brewery's for sale $1500 OBO. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I enjoy building weird things sometimes.<p>I'm reading a book called "Divorce Busting" by Michelle Werner-Davis, and in it she talks about the quandry we are all in w/ the blurring of the sexes. She says that women have come a long way, but unfortunately not without a price. That now the roles in marriage are not defined socially, and that if the couple is not ENTIRELY on the same page w/ another, that resentment will build. The husband may be the stay-at-home guy, and will be expected to do certain things, at the same time be strong, confident, self-sufficient, etc. . . In this fog, we tend to struggle to find our roles, and if we don't communicate, it creates too much stress and finally breaks. That's really how I feel. I feel torn apart that I didn't work both at home and for $$ as much as I could. I was riding the gravy train sometimes now when I look back. We didn't communicate. I had told her (mostly teasinly) when we dated that I liked powerful and successful women. That's why I liked her, she had drive. I was always the guy that my friends would say I would marry a wealthy older woman [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] and be a sugar daddy. It was a joke, but there must be something deeper there. Well, my wife knew this, and we often talked about having kids and who would stay home. She wanted them before 30 (only 3 yrs away), and I would tell her that by that time, I probably would not be making 6 figures and SHE WOULD. If that was the case, I told her it would probably be better if I stayed home and she worked. Well, she was never really for nor against that, but I think ULTIMATELY we just WERE NOT on the same page! I think our expectations of our future, of our roles, of EACH OTHER were not the same. <p>That really pains me. It makes me sad FOR HER! I'm not a perfect guy, but understand that this stuff will take work. It took me a devistating moment to understand completely, but NOW I GET IT. I really want to make it work, and I think we really can, but her reply is: "No counseling, I'm DONE, I'm just DONE!"<p>What do I say to that except just turn my head and nod OK? I realize I'm not the best listener, and she holds SO MUCH resentment for me not listening to her needs. I'm guilty of that, and want to work at it. . . . She told me yesterday that just the other day when I dropped our little dog off (she wanted to try to take her for a while, and I agreed), that I didn't listen to her when she said that she would try this out and make sure that the dog was fine being alone w/ her. What I heard was that "if it's too hard on the dog and me (wife), then I'll give her back to you to deal w/". Inside I responded "Whatever!, i'm getting tired of being a doormat!" I didnt' say that, but didn't respond the way she wanted, and thus this road of resentment we travel!<p>Communication and Expectations! Maybe I'll write a book someday. What really gets me is how SHE FEELS that this is MY problem only, and she just wants to GET AWAY. She expressed her frustration of the 6 mo. waiting period. I just shook my head, like DAMN YOU, sorry for the freakin inconvenience woman! I know that WE BOTH have a part to play in this, and she feels she's already tried her part! Bull****! I'm did a booboo lovebuster when she mentioned how petty I was being having EVEN MENTIONED alimony (mention: "wife, people have said I should go for alimony, I WONT do that!") (that's what I said, she took it as black-mail as we were disagreeing about the car), and I responded by saying that "making this decision within a WEEK and filing within 4 days of her returning from her job-training trip was immature!" Oops, sorry, but that's REALLY how I feel!<p>Well guys, thanx so much for being here and just listening and giving me a place to write feelings. It is so much easier to get a hold on them when you write!<p>have to head off to breakfast, have a great morning all, and we'll just keep praying.<p>Jon

Hi Jon,<p>Say, I read all the threads on here and I have to agree. There is something that isn't quite right. Her continued "anger" and "resentment" don't add up. I have seen so many storys in my 2 years here on MB, your story is missing a piece, IMVHO. <p>I could very well be wrong, but it just does not add up. Her over-the-top resentment continues to concern and baffle me.<p>Love,
Jo

i guess that's why they call it "Out of the Blue", it really doesn't add up! I've been trying to guess what EXACTLY happend over the last 5 weeks, and realize as much as I could. The ONLY explanation is that we were communicating on 2 TOTALLY different planes and really missing each-other's needs! That's the only reason. <p>I think her resentment right now is because she is CLINGING on to any NEGATIVE thought she has of me to solidify and reassure herself that she has made the right decision.<p>I stand up and acknowledge my mistakes, and also acknowledge my humanity. What can I do more? I also acknowledge that you guys are getting a biased opinion of the facts of my story. I don't know what to say. But what I do know is that I WANT to work at this marriage, and she doesn't! I appreciate all your perspectives.<p>Jon

Q: any thoughts on how I would be able to add it up? I have told her that I still want to see a counselor to sift through our thoughts and let us grow in the future, even if we ended up divorced.<p>don't really know any other way. . . <p>Jon

Jon,<p>I in no way meant to infer you were holding anything back, I'm sure you have done some very brutal self examination, as we all have, due to Plan A. <p>I just feel there is a big piece to this puzzle that is missing. And I tend to think it may be on your wife's behalf. OR ... maybe it's just my paranoid and suspicious nature. Who knows ....<p>But regardless of the Root Cause or any missing pieces, you have been on the right road with correcting any behavior that might have lead to your W's unhappiness.<p>All you can do is light the path back to your marriage with Plan A lanterns, and hope your W will see the path and follow. <p>Keep those lanterns lit, and be strong. You are worth loving and don't deserve disrespectful treatment. <p>My only practical advice I would like to offer at this time is to halt all relatonship talks with W unless she initiates them, and even then, open your ears because somewhere in her words she's telling you her unmet needs.<p>Love,
Jo<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

i hear you resiliant. unfortunately it is true that we get biased 1 sided stories here, and we need to make sure to strive for the nekid truth [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>yes, wife is not telling me everything. some things, but holding a lot in, and I think that is a defense to what she sees as my attempt to keep this relationship together. <p>i hope that someday she does that. i will be seeing her in the near future because i will be helping her sell the car. i really wanted her to sell it under the circumstances that she took it from me, and now is asking my help. but that was more to teach her a lesson, and that I should not do. <p>one other thing. we are going w/out lawyers, although I have many friends, and 1 happens to be a lawyer [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] she is frustrated that I would be seeking couseling because I think she really feels vulnerable as I told her I would keep lawyers out of this. (i have! no papers, no legal battles, just consultations. and if she doesn't at least get that, she really is living in a dream world)<p>my question is about deposits on apts. we have an $800 deposit, and I asked her to just write me a check for half of that. she said she would when she moved. im not gonna make a huge fuss right now as I'm not currently strapped for cash. but isn't that fair to buy out my portion of the deposit? guess that could be a question for my buddy.<p>thanx for keepin me on my toes around here.<p>Jon

Well, it's been a couple of weeks now. No real news to report. I've had ups and downs, but less emotional and seem to be getting on w/ my life.<p>Yesterday was a low day as I went to church w/ a friend of mine. It is a youth church in the area here that many people I grew up w/ go to. Basically a lot of people I knew in HS and College were there, and many married/children/etc... It was so hard to be the outsider. The one standing in the corner at times w/ nothing to say. Luckily I didn't get anyone coming up and asking where my wife was, but was expecting it. It was good to see friends, and some were very supportive as they had heard the news.<p>It's too bad that human nature includes 'taking-for-granted'. As a born-again single, I realize the things that I took for granted having a wife. Being married, when I felt alone, I just called her. Now I realize how nice that was, just to be able to look over and have someone wink at you.<p>I realize that I really am better off w/out the woman that she is NOW, but am at that stage (going on 2 months) where I start to question if this is really it? If september will come and go and I'll get that piece of paper in the mail trumpeting to the world that I am an eligible bachelor again? Or will she call? Will she ever call? She still owes me 401K and deposit $, when do I call her for that? Do I ever call her to just go for coffee and try to just be a friend?<p>On an interesting note, I was listening to the Dennis Prager show (www.dennisprager.com) and he had Dr. Jim Wilson on who wrote :"The Marriage Problem: How Our Culture Has Weakened Families" They were talking about how marriages are falling apart more and more and why. I called, and finally got on in the last hour. They were talking about 'shaking-up' and pre-marital sex and that effect on marriage. I initially wanted to ask about prenuptual's and how that affected marriage (I don't know what I'll do the next time). Well, they were more interested in my story, and Dennis said he really wanted to talk to my wife and find out what 'women' expect during marriage and after divorce. (I would have loved to hear that conversation) Well, I gave him the synopsis of my story, and they talked about WS and why women under 40 are the ones filling for divorce so much these days. It was a fascinating topic!<p>Well, so I'm in 'No-Mans' land, 5 months till divorce is final. I'm just going to plan B now (even no other man that I know of), and figure it's all I can do (w/ her).<p>Any ideas as to anything else I can do? It seems that what I'm doing is just reinforcing her conviction. My counselor said that from what she understands, this will again happen to my wife the next time if she doesn't beat her demons this time. I'd love to hear her response to that? I'd love to ask her as she won't go to counseling w/ me. But, that's probably not the best at this point [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, just had to open up this morning. If no replies, it's cool. This has been just a great place to write things down. I'm gonna print out my story on these boards and save it in a file. I'm sure there's some great insight that I haven't realised yet. <p>Cheers,<p>Jon