^^bump^^

Thanks Pepper!

^ ^ bumpity bump ^ ^

Great post! ^up^

Bump for Still Reeling

elad...So many here, desperate to win back their spouse and their former life, seem to look at plan A as some sort of strategy that will win them back their spouse, (convincing them to return) when the real focus needs to be on themselves.<p>snl...likewise I have been trying to beat this drum forever, you CANNOT win a ws (or anyone else)... you can only be the best you you can be...and if you "choose" and are "chosen" maybe (assuming you did it right and did not succomb to infatuation/dependencty etc) something safe/nurturing/healthy/joyous may come to exist...but you cannot make it so, nor can you "win" this like some kind of sporting event....everytime I read about strategy, techniques, saving the marriage etc, I cringe, why? What is the point? To win? Win what? All this focus does is reduce people to property, objects to be manipulated to each others benfit...I hate it.

bump up for PI ....

All I can say is "WOW"!! thanks Pepperband for this insightful thread. This says it all!!
BH

Hats off, Pepper. 'nuf said!<p>I was wondering if you'd take the time to develop and post "Pepper's Recommended Reading" list, with perhaps some comments on the better ones.

Bumping (up up and away)... for dear 2 Long ... take care of yourself ... plan A for yourself !!!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks again, Pepper!

I have a few questions in regard to doing a good "Plan A". I ask because maybe I am not quite clear on this concept as far as MB is concerned....so here goes...

Is Plan A supposed to be implemented (and will only work) if the OP is out of the picture? My interpretation of it was that the OP has to be out of the picture, that the WS would no longer be involved in the extramarital activity.

Another question....how can counseling possibly work (MC) if there are 3 people instead of 2 people involved (a triangle so to speak)? It seems that extra person thrown in the mix (and continuing to be in the mix) would make it all moot. I can understand the IC...but not the marital counseling . To still maintain a relationship with the OP would mean that the WS is unwilling to work on repairing the marriage. It would be obvious, or maybe I should say, it should be obvious. After all, we can only improve ourselves and dedicate ourselves to the marriage, we cannot force the other person.

Is there a need for the strict adherence of the MB concepts or is picking and choosing more realistic? Are these concepts just a basic guidleine to follow?

These are just thought provoking to me.

committed

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Bumping up for Deeply Hurting

Pep

I know this post is about Plan A, but the following struck me as a FWS (gosh how I hate that)

"WHO THE HELL AM I ... AND ... WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?"

"And, asking this question to the *fogged-in* infidel is pointless. They got INTO the affair because they were lost to themselves, and went searching for a new self .... and, INSTEAD of differentiating themselves ... they fused identity to yet another relationship ... actually moving away from a healthy differentiated view of their self-worth ----> I am wonderful because my affair partner thinks so."

I believe this sums me up so well. I didn't have the guts or strength to look at differentiating myself within my M, probably because it wasn't terribly healthy, but how much more unhealthy to travel the road I did and all the cost of that?

The "Who Am I" question was one I asked for many months.

I'm sorry I missed this post before. It was fascinating to read, and truly interesting, looking at it from different angles too, not just the Plan A which of course is so very true too.

Thanks Pep

Lisa

Yep Pep! You bumped it up for DeeplyHurting, and for me. I was just going to scurry in this morning and post my Silly post and hurry out.

You know how sometimes you feel all the talk here is making you "different" than you should be?

It all started a few days ago when I began to roll around in my head THE question, "who the hell am I?"...Yeah, I know who I am. But the painful part is "who I really am, may not be who the Dustdawg...really likes.

I think it had alot to do with us growing apart. I remember saying to him then..."I think you would have been happier with a different type of woman as your wife."

Now, wince pain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ... he did describe the OP as "simple". I am anything but simple.

Yesterday, I had lengthy conversations with former business associates, who said "Darn it Dustkitty we need your tenacity and ability to think "out of the box". Gee, that felt good!

Then I remember the Dustdawg saying he didn't like my "bulldog attitude and insistence on making everything a big deal"....

Aren't they the same things? What I am he doesn't like? Doesn't like so much that at one time it was refreshing to be around someone "simple"?

So the aspect of recovery that you wrote about some time ago, is causing me to really struggle.

Over coffee this morning we talked about just this very thing. "what do you like about me and what don't"...I even did a little LBing by saying softly..."all the things I like about myself you don't really admire, will I have to stifle them to live with you?"

We agreed to talk further over dinner out tonight?

Got any advice other than don't order dessert? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't believe any honest painful sharing is LBing ... ever. It's this pain that builds intimacy.

You opened a door. If your H speaks from his integrity, he'll be gently honest with you.

Here's my advice .... when you discuss such things, if you feel the blood rushing through your body as you are about to respond .... stop talking for at least 30 seconds. If you cannot compose your thoughts .... say you need 30 minutes, or so, to go for a solo walk and you will be right back with your thoughts.

Any criticism is valid. Not all criticisms are about you. Some are about the person doing the criticising. Check your response for any knee-jerk reaction, and go further to look at your issues that caused the knee-jerk response .... before you commit to an answer. Check to see if the little girl inside you is about to resond, or your adult voice ..... sometimes either one works, but you get to decide who's voice speaks when the need arrises.

I love being criticized now. I have re-framed that experience as "empowering me to change'. ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your H loves you.

Pep

Yep Pep, as always. I've been framing my questions about my personality with "I wanna change the negative, I do want to grow." I don't want to become a "Stepford Wife"...even though I look great in big hats!

I've seen him change so much...likely do to my calmly pointing what makes me feel affirmed and what makes me feel like I am flawed. I still keep coming 'round to the fact he never seemed to think I was anything but "juss fine"...till someone put a bug in his ear? And he started talking "Oprah-talk"....sheesh.

Gosh we talk so much more now...and I am very sensitive to the fact that we talk well about "projects"...and would prefer to just "demonstrate" feelings.

But he's the verbal affirmation-junkie. Gotta have alot! I'm the non-verbal affirmation giver.

Yes, he may love his wife. Or love having a wife. But does he love me? ?

Gotta thread going for the Dustdawg and me...hope we have something to read after dinner. If not we will have to talk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Dustkitty, My H, too, said he liked things "simple," and liked people "simple." What he meant was -- he liked the beginning of relationships, where there was no struggle or effort. Just unqualified adoration. Hence, the A.

In fact, H is not simple, I found out at the end. He has lots of extra bells and whistles. The thing that was the least "simple" in our marriage was him.

Been splashing in the refreshing cerebral fountain Pep and Termie got a' going over in "Therapy Resistant WS! ie." Jung For Jungsters...a scratch and sniff board book is what I need after posting here in the voice of Forest Gump.

After learning how to cough, lower my voice and look away when I explain my current quest for "authentic self"...as what I really was asking here!..... What if that Authentic Dustkitty becomes something..."no longer useful" or compatible?

Oh this all Love-Dove tails into that thread. Got me a'big ol'fork to dig into the meat offered on that thread's convo. Really Pep! You can't leave us hanging here with only "Reflected Identity"...You have to be the Blue Fairy and make us real!