I just had to hang up and feel this is a major lb... my H went on and on and on about my "sh++" all over the place... yes... I have clutter.. he has nothing in his house... nothing... <p>OK, the man does not help me buy furniture or bookshelves.. his suggestion... throw all my stuff away... well, I dfo not agree... I need some help carrying some stuff and etc.. but his visit yesterday is turning into nightmare... as he now uses every chance he gets to tell me why he can't come home... it is that I have such a messy house... and obvious emoitinal problems... he is using this as a wy to abuse me... my house is not a total wreck... let him go find someone perfect... I have a cleaning lady one time per week... I work ver y hard.. and this man is absolutely insane.. my injury prevents... so much in me... I had to take vicodan a little ago- please.... what is his issue.. why is it that this man cannot and will not do anything to help me with moving stuff and arranging stuff...<p>he just threw at me... he does not want the kids. .. here.. .with me... oh my G... I am serious... it is just some clutter... alot of it being I have alack of furtniture... to store. .. stuff.. and yes... he is very very mean about all of this.

Dear, dear Honey...happens to me all the time. Don't REACT. He doesn't live with you anymore SO it's your right to manage how you see fit. <p>They try to find excuses Honey. Let em rant so that they can hear themselves instead of having to listen to you respond, OK?<p>Hang up, turn around and walk away, ask him to leave...whatever it takes but DON'T let him push your buttons. It's happened to me too many times and it's up to us to stop it.<p>Take care

Honey, I hate to say this but your H sounds like and [censored]*ole. He is only making excuses, if it wasnt your home, it would be something else. This man needs help!! <p>From your recent postings I could see you were getting stronger. Now he pops in your home one day, and he weakened your resolve again. My god honey, he was there for only 1/2 day and came back with nothing but critism. <p>My suggestion, is stay distant for awhile. Discuss only your children, and only if absolutley necessary. Let him miss you. The old you, not the clingy person he dislikes. <p>ANd believe me Honey, no court in the land would allow your children to be with their Father in the alcoholic state he is in right now.<p>Susie

{{{honey}}}, I don't remember if I've responded to you before, but I always read your posts because my H is also an alcoholic. I relate to your situation, especially the way it's almost worse when they're nice to you than when they just stay away. <p>You have sounded very strong recently, but this visit during which your H and you were intimate really set you back. I've been there, done that! <p>My H is more or less living with OW. I gave him an ultimatum to get sober, because he's too verbally and emotionally abusive to live with while he continues to drink, and end relationship with OW or proceed with divorce. <p>He chose OW and stayed away for about 2 weeks, but he's been calling every day lately, telling me he loves me, at first, and then launching into a list of my faults (IMHO your H knows how to push your buttons, as mine does) and usually ends up by hanging up on me. Sound familiar? <p>I was doing much better with the more or less clear message he gave me by choosing to refuse to get sober. But I've been an emotional mess since he started calling again. <p>I have no idea what it is that makes them swing from one extreme to the other. I go to IC, 4 AlAnon meetings a week, I read AlAnon and other related literature daily, I pray about it, but it is just not easy being in a relationship with active alcoholism.<p>You do not need to make excuses for yourself about your back injury, need for medication, etc. Your H is trampling your self-esteem. You are a strong, capable woman. Take care of yourself.

Honey, <p>Take a deep breath. Do not let this man control how you feel about yourself. You have made great strides forward, do notlet him drag you back. When he gets in these verbally abusive moods you need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your self esteem. <p>Hang in there and keep moving forward.
Sinking

Honey I'd like to offer you some constructive criticism. Please don't be offended because that's not my intention.<p>First, stop allowing your H to take away your self worth. He is not the defining factor of who Honey is. His remarks can only hurt if you believe them. His lies and hurtful comments aren't important right now - you are what's important.<p>Take some time for you now. Spend time with your children doing fun things. Find out who you are without him and learn to like that person. That is the real you. He can do and say whatever he likes but it all boils down to what you think of yourself. Don't allow him to devaluate you as a person. Work on becoming the best you possible. Get strong and learn to be happy.<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: TinyDancer ]</p>

thanks I did not read for a while...a s I have been busy painting my bathroom and doing yardwork... I found myself in good mood early this am... before the insults came at me later today... I bet he had had a few beers by that time... last night he was calling with the I love you and I will never find someone like you ... you have a spell on me... kind of thing... this man is from one extreme to the other... I think he does his freedom like... and lack of responsibility... that is his main issue... not even that he does not love me... or that I am a slob... he has found something he knows I am sensitive too... as I care how my house lookds... and it was not bad at all when he was here... in fact... he cooked and left dirty dishes.. and the only reason his place is anywhere near clean is his new "cleaning " woman.... that has a crush on him... or him her that is?? He is so much not wanting to do anything my way... it has to be his way, his way... he is such a little god... the alcoholic... always thinking he is the one who has to be right... he makes up all these reasons... he had to get away from me... and lord knows he believes them now...it was all about the A... and I know it... and I just scared if I do take him back he would do it again... and if he did... I would throw him out without a tear being shed... that is how bad it is... .one thing that had me holding on so many years... was his deep love for me... I actaully believed he had it... he insists he still love s me... but this is not love... nono no..... ???? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyhow.. verty very sad... I just watched runaway dad on lifetime... and I could relate to a man who just does not want to be responsible... but wants to have fun fun fun [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] that's my H! if it is fun or free it is for him... sad sad... sad... anyhow.... <p>MY paint in the bathroom ran... I had mixed it with water as I read in a magzine to do for a nice effect... but it just ran... so I have to repain... t and I have a messs... but it will look good when I am done... yes... it will! I love accomplishements... big, small or in between... all of them..<p>NO, I am not going to let him eat me.... I am so sick of his attitude.... why come over be sweet and then backlash all over me?<p>thanks for all your support... it really helps.... and gee, my house is looking good? what is his problem...it is way nicer here than his scrounge of a pad...? not to mean , but come on... it feels good... it is way nicer here... <p>thanks, H [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey, I've followed your posts for a long time now, didn't respond before, but I can really empathise with so much of what you're saying now.<p>I am codependent. I am obsessive-compulsive. I am the (step)daughter of an abusive alcoholic, the exwife of another, the mother of a drug addict. I discovered my second H's EA three weeks after our wedding, and went straight back into the emotional codependent mess I was during my first marriage. It's only now, two years and four months after Dday, 16 months into recovery, that I am healing.<p>I am in group therapy for Adult Children of Alcoholics. The group thrives on crosstalk, input, interpersonal sharing - all the things that AlAnon or CoDA doesn't give you and that teach you how to use AlAnon and CoDA in the way they need to be used: to reawaken your personal spirituality.<p>You asked WHY your H keeps coming back, being sweet, then lashing out at you. One of my group's members asked exactly this question: why could she only finally chuck her abusive alcoholic boyfriend after he struck and swore at her sister? He'd been hitting and swearing at her since they got together, making her financially responsible for him, insulting her grossly in public, often humiliating her to tears.<p>The group therapist said this is what keeps people with abusers: the random reward factor. He said studies have shown that if you keep giving rats electric shocks when they press a blue button, they stop pretty damn quick. BUT if you, even 2 or 3 times out of every 100 times, give them rewards - a couple of peanuts, say - when they press the blue button, they'll keep on and on coming back to be shocked 97 or 98 times out of every 100. People, especially codependents, behave the same way. They look at the occasional good things or loving words, and use this to carry them through the usual round of emotional and even physical bashing.<p>I chose to break the pattern. Prozac is the drug of choice for obsessive-compulsives. I choose to be a choicemaker. I choose to act, not react. It's not easy to find my self-esteem within, but I'm learning day by day! I'm happy nearly all the time now. And the way I feel about my FWH now is a reflection of the way I feel about myself. I'm no longer desperate for his love, or even his approval. I don't "ask" in any way for his permission to be me, or to be alive. I use POJA, and I treat my self with respect, as I do him.<p>As Pepperband asks on her excellent thread, Who are you, Honey? Without your husband, without your children? Wouldn't it be wonderful to know who you are, and like the Honey that you truly are?? <p>One more thing for your comfort: I told the group I feel like a fake and an impostor. That cheerful smiling competent person I am at work and around the family is just a construct and I should get an Oscar. He said that person IS the real me. The frightened idiot is NOT me. I said I didn't believe him. He asked who was my role model for the friendly competent loving attractive woman? What, no role model? Well then, that has to be the real me, coming through the mists and fogs of codependence. The other things are acquired characteristics. This made a lot of sense to me and I'm cautiously starting to believe it!<p>I read your posts and I see a woman who is a survivor, who is coping with infidelity and physical injury, who has gotten herself through school. Why allow a man who is SICK, yes SICK, alcoholism is a biogenetic fact and a DISEASE, to set your value? Honey, you can do this. Detach with love from your husband, be your true self. You cannot heal him, you cannot even help him. But you can heal and help yourself, and the mere fact that you pull out of the crazy dance you're in with him will impact on him. <p>Here are 2 sites I've found enormously helpful:
www.codependents.org
www.recovery.org/acoa/whois.acoa.html<p>For Alcoholism, read any kind of trauma you lived through in your childhood. And remember, it's a description of the syndrome, NOT an indictment of your character!!

My STBX/WH used to do this to me all the time. I had too much stuff and he could not understand why. When I told him I had no room and maybe a few bookshelves or storage cabinets would do the trick he would respond with "just get rid of the stuff!". After living in one small place for over 22 years things have a tendency to collect in your house like pictures and other sentamental items not to mention the fact we have two children who are college age living at home like sardines in a can!<p>My WH never lifted a figure to help out as far as finding a solution to the storage problem. He did not have any trouble helping out OW by building things for her house. He also claims he hardly spent any money on her. Hmmmm! 4 years of helping her out and neglecting his own family!<p>My WH does not have a drinking problem that I know of (have not seen him for 5 months) but he did have an alcoholic mother and his dad also has a major drinking problem. In fact, I think his dad is the only one that listens to his bull about me, if you can call that listening while drunk!<p>I believe my WH has a strange distrust for women in general since problems with his late mother. He continualy tells me that the pending divorce and his affair are all my fault. He will not take any responsibilty for the fact he went out and found OW! Throughout marriage he always thought maybe I was cheating on him or I was spending all his money or I have too much stuff! <p>I spend more time moving the boxes to clean the floor! At least I try to keep the house clean which is a huge challenge. <p>Your post just touched a nerve with me and I know how you feel. I hope things get better for you.

Omigosh Honey,
I read your 2 threads and I just want to cry for you. And scold you.<p>He's meaner than frothing dog to you, he comes over, is a little nice and you have sex with him, then is meaner than a frothing dog again.<p>Both in hanging up on his abuse & if you had said no to sex you posted you felt would have been a lovebuster!!!! No, it is SELF-PROTECTION.<p>BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES<p>He has moved out, has started banging his new maid...why on earth should you have sex with him or listen to him insult you? NO REASON.<p>My H did this progressive fault-finding with me. I wasn't desirable, frumpy in fact. I lost weight, lifted weights, tanned, became blonde, grew my hair & was buff...I then was dressing too provacatively.<p>He said the house was a mess. It's worse when he lives here and I told him so. We had too many cats (2). When he moved home this last time he brought another one! I said it was his and he'd have to have it fixed. He didn't, it had a litter we had 6 cats for awhile! 4 now (and I got that cat spayed).<p>If he doesn't like the way you keep house, do your best or, if you are ornery enough, ask him for his maid!<p>Honey, he's really sleeping around, you need to protect your health. Get a STD screen and always use protection with him if you didn't. He won't like that either I suppose, but IT IS NOT A LOVEBUSTER to protect yourself.<p>Sorry for all the yelling. Your post reminded me of a very bad time...and I wish I'd had the sense to say no once in awhile. So, I'm passing that wish onto you. <p>Say no when something is bad for you or hurts you or makes you uncomfortable and it is not a lovebuster.