Time to stop lurking and cut my story loose.
First, my wife acknowledges that, by any objective person's account, she is married to a wonderful man: caring, attentive, good listener, a great business partner, a great companion to share experiences with, good father, and possessed of sexual prowess (if only in a technical sense). The only part missing is having an "emotional connection" or spark where she would feel wildly attractive to the man in her life. She says she never felt that way for me--marriage to me was more out of "practical reasons" (i.e., finally finding a man stable enough to marry and have children with). (Why didn't I get a sense of what was up back then? Naivety, I guess...but I wanted to be with her and made the commitment--especially when she got accidentally pregnant).<p>Now the story (not pretty). For several years she's had a "platonic" friendship with our children's piano teacher, which I believe. He was engaged to his live-in the entire time--the engagement broke off last October. In late January of this year, she made her move and he gave in. In a matter of a few short weeks, he declared his love for her, introduced her to his parents, and they began discussions of marriage...quick courtship, wouldn't you say? She claims she has finally found the emotional connection she has always been seeking. It was unlike any man she has been with before, blah, blah, blah (...I know, they all say that...her past relationships (before me) were, shall we say, rather checkered). She feels sexy, alive, creative, etc., etc., etc. I believe, in part, it's that Picasso-effect -- the male artist who finds women weak-knee'd around him. (I'm solidly left-brained--designing a database is as close to art as I'll ever come).<p>Of course she's told me there are a few "practical" problems in marrying him, like lack of money (I make double what he makes--my wife is a doctor). The loser can't even drive a car! There are other problems too, like an utter lack of scruples! Any chance that a marriage with him would work is, in my opinion, as likely as Osama Bin Laden calling the F.B.I. to arrange for his arrest. But she appears to be giving it serious thought anyway.<p>As you can surmise, my wife is a woman easily seduced by an emotional charge--no matter how foolish or irrational. My great frustration is figuring what I can do to incite those feelings in her over me--without looking as if I'm trying to "change my personality" and look stupid and unconfident in process. I have an inkling that the A may die a natural death anyway (then again...the emotional addiction may be too strong). She's already promised that I would be the fallback guy (...but really, that doesn't solve anything if the underlying problem is unresolved). Also, she tends to see her relationships in black and white and has the "you either have it or you don't" kind of attitude.<p>Understand, I honestly don't want to leave her. As disrespectful as she's been, I want to spend the rest of my life her--no one else would do. Her parents are stunned at my resoluteness (quite upset at her, frightened) in the face of all this.<p>Any suggestions? Or am I just playing a fool's game with a vain and narcissistic woman?<p>Married - 11 years
BS - 38 yo
WS - 39 yo
Boy, age 6, Girl, age 10
D-day: 2/25/02
EA (clearly the driver)
PA (claims she draws the line at S.I. or genital contact by him--99% confident she is truthful)
Plan A (applying basics, but see above post for
problem)

Mark! OMG! Your story sounds SO familiar it's scary. Why? Mine is SO similar...<p>Should that make you feel any better? Probably not... but at least you know you aren't alone...<p>Some of the main features of my WW's A:<p>- She admits I'm such a "great guy", "Prince Charming" in fact
- She feels OM and her share a special "emotional connection"
- OM isn't exactly "artsy", but he is foreign, and the difference in culture is attractive to her
- OM has expressed his desire to marry her
- She feels sexy, alive, creative, etc.
- OM is penniless, can't drive, etc.
- She sees things in black and white
- She would like to believe I'm Mr.Fallback too<p>And hey, I hear ya about the database thing... I'm a consultant!<p>Okay, so what to do... Plan A is a great place to start... In fact, I personally feel it's the ONLY place to start. I'd recommend reading all you can on this site, plus get and read "Surviving an Affair" (see bookstore link). As you read it, you'll be shocked by the parallels. I know I was.<p>Another thing I feel obliged to say... prepare to wait... patience is key here. Look how long I've been at it (d-day was Sept. 3/01). Some people are lucky and WS snaps to it quickly... others have to accept that Plan A will NOT have the desirable effect of bringing the WS back... Plan A and B are intended to work together as a team. Plan B can be only as effective as your Plan A was... so I suggest you do some soul searching as to what Plan A really means to you... I can see you're struggling with it a little bit... understandable at this stage... it's been 7 months and I'm still learning new aspects of it.<p>A recent post by Pepperband really captures its essence, I believe: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=016953<p>Keep these points about Plan A in mind:<p>- Don't EXPECT anything from WS - that just sets you up for disappointment - accept that you can't control them in any way, shape or form<p>- It is intended for YOU - to help you learn the skills you need to succeed in your future relationship - with or without WW<p>- If the WS allows you to meet their emotional needs during Plan A, great - but be prepared for them to not allow it - OP will be doing so on many levels<p>So... I suggest you step back for a moment and really examine what it is that you think might have been lacking in your marriage. Plan A means implementing change and trying to meet the WS's EN - but because they can be rejected so easily, the best you can do in some cases is simply express your willingness to do so (SAA gives examples of phone calls and letter writing if WS isn't willing to talk to you). You need to be careful - balance the desire to talk it to death (the dreaded "relationship talk") - and the need to give her some breating room. Over-extending yourself and pursuing too hard can be deadly... I know... it's tricky business.<p>I've found the following:<p>- The longer you can keep her at home, the better. I read somewhere that "A woman never leaves a man who she perceives as happy." That's the key - perceives - perception is reality. So would it be an act to be calm, confident and poised? Not really - I trust that's the "real you," if you weren't hurting so badly. So do your best - that's all anyone can ask. I know my attitude of being strong, confident, and kind has allowed her to feel so safe with me that the 2 times she's tried to leave have failed miserably. It's now putting a big strain on her and OM.<p>- Talking to Steve or Jennifer is a good thing. (They're associated with this site - I'm not trying to sell their services, but once you familiarize yourself with MB concepts, you'll see the value in what they have to offer - it makes perfect sense.)<p>- The A is most likely about fantasy, control and respect. As the fantasy wanes, as she realizes she can't control you, and as her respect for you grows, so will the A die.<p>- Don't love bust - at all. For a while, it may make you FEEL like a doormat, although you certainly are NOT, and you shouldn't allow yourself to BE one. But at the same time, setting up a very safe environment is important... it's what you want to do in Plan A - prove that you can be trusted to protect her feelings. You won't be able to reason, argue or cajole her into thinking your way - so accept that you can only control you, make you into the best person you can be, even in the face of the worst treatment possible from one person to another. I've always approached it as acting as a role model for my (as yet unborn) children.<p>Anyhow, sorry for rambling, but you really struck a chord with me tonight!<p>[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

"Fallback guy"!...If even in her fantasy she allows for the possibility the "new" marriage isn't going to work, she has doubts.<p>I always think it's a bummer when the OP proposes marriage before there is a divorce in process.<p>Plan A is very good. I did mine 18 months, sometimes much better than at others. And I would suggest you spend time in Plan A, if nothing else you can sort out your own behaviors. <p>Almost 2 years after my H's PA began, in our 7th separation, I gave up. Plan B didn't work for me and my lovebank was drained. I served the D papers myself and began to move on. No one should start a divorce they don't want or don't intend to follow through with...but until then, my H had waffled, restarted the affair a couple times.<p>But at the point I wasn't his "fallback", I wasn't even there, he realized he wanted our marriage. It may have been the dynamics of the PA truly being over for 4 months, though they are still co-workers, 2 years had passed since the beginning, he came out of the fog. I was dating (don't do that either if you have any hope for your marriage).<p>If your wife goes for the "emotional" there are few things more emotional than finding that your fallback spouse doesn't hold you at the center of their universe.<p>I think Plan A has to come first, because if the WS doesn't know the BS loves them, they have more reason to cling to the OP. But in my opinion, words of "I'll always be there" should be replaced with "I love you, I want our marriage, I'll wait for you as long as I can."<p>We've been in recovery 23 months [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . Good months.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>Mark! OMG! Your story sounds SO familiar it's scary. Why? Mine is SO similar...<p>Should that make you feel any better? Probably not... but at least you know you aren't alone...<p>Some of the main features of my WW's A:<p>- She admits I'm such a "great guy", "Prince Charming" in fact
- She feels OM and her share a special "emotional connection"
- OM isn't exactly "artsy", but he is foreign, and the difference in culture is attractive to her
- OM has expressed his desire to marry her
- She feels sexy, alive, creative, etc.
- OM is penniless, can't drive, etc.
- She sees things in black and white
- She would like to believe I'm Mr.Fallback too<p>And hey, I hear ya about the database thing... I'm a consultant!<p>Okay, so what to do... Plan A is a great place to start... In fact, I personally feel it's the ONLY place to start. I'd recommend reading all you can on this site, plus get and read "Surviving an Affair" (see bookstore link). As you read it, you'll be shocked by the parallels. I know I was.<p>Another thing I feel obliged to say... prepare to wait... patience is key here. Look how long I've been at it (d-day was Sept. 3/01). Some people are lucky and WS snaps to it quickly... others have to accept that Plan A will NOT have the desirable effect of bringing the WS back... Plan A and B are intended to work together as a team. Plan B can be only as effective as your Plan A was... so I suggest you do some soul searching as to what Plan A really means to you... I can see you're struggling with it a little bit... understandable at this stage... it's been 7 months and I'm still learning new aspects of it.<p>A recent post by Pepperband really captures its essence, I believe: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=016953<p>Keep these points about Plan A in mind:<p>- Don't EXPECT anything from WS - that just sets you up for disappointment - accept that you can't control them in any way, shape or form<p>- It is intended for YOU - to help you learn the skills you need to succeed in your future relationship - with or without WW<p>- If the WS allows you to meet their emotional needs during Plan A, great - but be prepared for them to not allow it - OP will be doing so on many levels<p>So... I suggest you step back for a moment and really examine what it is that you think might have been lacking in your marriage. Plan A means implementing change and trying to meet the WS's EN - but because they can be rejected so easily, the best you can do in some cases is simply express your willingness to do so (SAA gives examples of phone calls and letter writing if WS isn't willing to talk to you). You need to be careful - balance the desire to talk it to death (the dreaded "relationship talk") - and the need to give her some breating room. Over-extending yourself and pursuing too hard can be deadly... I know... it's tricky business.<p>I've found the following:<p>- The longer you can keep her at home, the better. I read somewhere that "A woman never leaves a man who she perceives as happy." That's the key - perceives - perception is reality. So would it be an act to be calm, confident and poised? Not really - I trust that's the "real you," if you weren't hurting so badly. So do your best - that's all anyone can ask. I know my attitude of being strong, confident, and kind has allowed her to feel so safe with me that the 2 times she's tried to leave have failed miserably. It's now putting a big strain on her and OM.<p>- Talking to Steve or Jennifer is a good thing. (They're associated with this site - I'm not trying to sell their services, but once you familiarize yourself with MB concepts, you'll see the value in what they have to offer - it makes perfect sense.)<p>- The A is most likely about fantasy, control and respect. As the fantasy wanes, as she realizes she can't control you, and as her respect for you grows, so will the A die.<p>- Don't love bust - at all. For a while, it may make you FEEL like a doormat, although you certainly are NOT, and you shouldn't allow yourself to BE one. But at the same time, setting up a very safe environment is important... it's what you want to do in Plan A - prove that you can be trusted to protect her feelings. You won't be able to reason, argue or cajole her into thinking your way - so accept that you can only control you, make you into the best person you can be, even in the face of the worst treatment possible from one person to another. I've always approached it as acting as a role model for my (as yet unborn) children.<p>Anyhow, sorry for rambling, but you really struck a chord with me tonight!<p>[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry, J.R., for my hasty mouse action in my first attempt at replying.<p>Anyway. Wow. The power of the internet comes through. You and I definitely share some amazing commonalities--these women do have an odd dark side to them. Your story does make it a little more bearable and adds some hope. <p>I'm still fleshing out Plan A. Not sure, at this time, that it will work by itself (she enjoys "having her cake and eating it too"). But I realize the long-term importance, because her "falling back" doesn't necessarily reform our marriage. Your cautionary words really strike some chords with me. Notes taken. And acting calm, confident, and poised is no stretch either. <p>It's hard as hell, but I share your resolve.

Thanks Lor for the encouraging words for someone who's been down that (long) road already.<p>For my WS's OM to propose in a few short weeks, way before there is even assurance of a divorce proceeding, was shocking to hear, but maybe it's just another clue to what is really going on. But then, I don't want to be overly obsessed with her relationship him, and just work on Plan A. You seem to be a veteran of these boards and have heard it all. Any other thoughts? <p>I've thought about when Plan B would take place. Some people on these boards advocate sooner rather than later...or depends on the situation.