I am having an emotionally hard day...Thoughts of the OW keep coming to mind...I wonder what she and my H talked about? What she thought about him being married with children? If she thought they were just being friends? Did she want it to become more? I guess I would like to understand her mind. I just need to vent ... some days are so much harder than others! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

VENT ON, acme! What ifs? Hows? Whens? We're with you! Mornings are always tough. It seems I tend to sleep off all the negatives, and wake remembering playing footsies in bed or trying to get a kiss from wife w/ morning breath while she runs away! Our spouses have mad a BAD choice, and you want so much for a brick to fall on their head and make them realize this! Make everything CLEAR! It hurts to know that it's not that easy.<p>So VENT ON BABY!<p>Jon

That's right that's what we are here for. Before I found this place and started posting I was going crazy thinking noone knew what I was going through. It was wonderful to post something and have others relate to it. <p>I would think of the OW, it would make me so mad. How dare she disrupt my family. She wrote a letter to my H saying how she knew he was happily married but could be what I couldn't for him. He first said no but she continued to pursue him. I know it takes two, he is to blame as well. I don't think I dwell on her specifically anymore but if she pops into my thoughts I try to quickly think of something else.<p>We are with you today!<p>Here's my story not sure if I linked it right though.<p>sty<p>My story

ACME: Honestly, the OW was probably stuck in the dilusional fantasy that the affair is. Both the WS and the OP often get stuck on dreams that their relationship is a normal one. So yes she probably did not seriously think about his "reallife" and the fact she was hurting you. OR if she did she is most likely too wrapped up in herself to care. I mean taken at point blank, if our WS's who care for us can participate in a affair with no real regard to our feelings as a BS, there isnt much stopping a OP from hurting us other than a weak sense of morality.<p>
ANYWAY. Thats what I think is the truth, does it makes us feel better? Hmm.. For me knowing or accepting these thigns stopped the questions from circulating all the time. Feel free to write things down in a journal, it helps, though you might feel crazy "talking" to yourself.<p>We have so much emotional stress as BS' do your best not to feed into it by perseverating on things we cant control, that might just drive you batty.<p>Why let HER bring YOU down? Be satisfied with the fact you could probably kick her butt if you saw her. Concentrate on yourself and why you are a good person!<p>keep your chin up eyes on your goal
*HUGS*
-HI<p>[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Vent on is right. This board is non judgemental and supportive. Yes, we can all relate to your pain. I, like you, am having a very difficult time this A.M.

Thank you all for showing interest in my pain, a pain I know most of you share in your own lives. I feel like a basket case emotionally, and that in 7 months time I should be a lot further down the road of recovery.
In any other circumstance I probably would have been this women's friend, I can see why my husband would care for her. She is a nice women and very beautiful, she just has some problems and my husband must have blinded her with his white horse and armor. Ha!
Hangingin... I do feel if the need ever arises (it never would) I could kick her butt...I have been taking kick boxing since last July. Look out!! Ha Ha!
Again thanks for the support!

Kickboxing, excellent [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
great way to blow off steam and increase self confidence. (and imagine beating OP into a pulp!) <p>But we're above that right? <p>-HI

(((Acme)))<p>7 months is not a long time, and everyone takes things at their own pace.<p>I am still having those kind of days, and we are 2 years out from the first major d-day.<p>It gets easier. Time heals. It will get a little better, and then a little better. Then you will have a bad day. <p>Soon enough you will realize the bad days are further and further apart, and the good days get better and better. <p>Every once in a while a really bad one hits, but everyone has something that gives them bad days. <p>I promise it won't last forever.<p>Elizabeth

ACME,<p>I've read in other threads by WS, that mostly they didn't think. (From my point of view I don't see how that is possible, but then again, I'm not a WS)<p>Mutual friends of ours sat down OW#1 (they were all HS friends) & asked what the heck she was doing - it was wrong. She said she agreed you are right & I'm wrong, but did IT anyway. She knew me & knew our oldest S - he & they (WH & S) were over at her house a lot when he was going to College nearby!!! They even spent the night!!!!
Then of course he spent the night without S too. She has 4 kids!!!!<p>I had been pretty good about keeping out images but THEY ARE COMMING BACK BIG TIME.
[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi acme,
I just wanted to respond to your post and offer my perspective. I got involved with a MM over 20 years ago when I was about that age (10 years younger than his W and MUCH stupider than I am now... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I agreed with some of what HanginIn said, especially regarding open and honest communication, but some of it I did not. Here's what all I thought...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>ACME: Honestly, the OW was probably stuck in the dilusional fantasy that the affair is...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe she was... maybe she wasn't. I knew WS was married. I did not know his wife personally. I knew he wasn't planning to leave his wife. It was strictly physical. I looked nothing like his wife. I never really considered her feelings.<p>But if I am correct, acme your H was not involved in a physical affair with this person. However, I can understand your suspicions and curiosity. I think you should probably have more discussions with your H about your insecurities and vulnerabilities. It sounds like he needs to be more reassuring to you. Maybe you have an emotional need for admiration and that could and should be communicated to your H immediately! (So he can start filling your love bank in this area...) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Have you guys filled out the Emotional Needs Questionnaires??? I would recommend doing that asap!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>...Both the WS and the OP often get stuck on dreams that their relationship is a normal one.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Depends on the type of affair. I doubt if this was the case in acme's WS cell phone conversations. Probably was just on the brink of an EA if anything. (I HOPE!) Which is why I believe that more heart-to-heart discussions are in order. I think you have to pull out of your H whatever you can and as often as you need to. Talk to him! Let him know your true feelings so you can stop all the wondering. The speculation is torturing you!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>...So yes she probably did not seriously think about his "reallife" and the fact she was hurting you.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with this to a point cuz we don't know what their conversations were really about. Do you, acme? I think you should try to dig deeper and get out of your WS what you can so you can bury this forever.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>...OR if she did she is most likely too wrapped up in herself to care. I mean taken at point blank, if our WS's who care for us can participate in a affair with no real regard to our feelings as a BS, there isnt much stopping a OP from hurting us other than a weak sense of morality.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with this statement 100%, HanginIn. I didn't get the wife's perspective until I became a wife myself. THEN, the full impact of what I had done--gotten myself pregnant by a married man--really hit me. THIS LATE IN LIFE! I have only been married for 9 years. I only found MB about a year ago. Oh well, I praise God for enlightenment, whenever it comes... <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>...For me knowing or accepting these thigns stopped the questions from circulating all the time...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Which is why I believe more candid discussions between you acme and your hubby are definitely in order. I don't believe it is healthy for you to go around pretending that your pride is not wounded and this is something that can just be swept under the rug. I don't think it is good to wear masks and hide emotions like you are experiencing that are so strong and can damage your future relationship with your H--due to the trust factor being compromised. He needs to know exactly what he has done to you! My prayers are with you and I'm glad it sounds like the almost EA is over! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Dear BINthereDunthat:
Thank you for your post, you have very clearly seen my heart. The trust factor, as you put it, has been compromised and I fear more damage than I would like to admit has been done to the feelings I have for my husband and our relationship will surely suffer for it. I feel as I read other post here at MB my situation may seem insignificant in comparison, my husband has not, to my knowledge, had a physical relationship with the other woman and has told me that he is no longer in contact with her. Now if I trusted him as I once did, this reassurance would be enough and I could move past the hurt. As it stands, I don't trust him and fear that like so many other betrayed spouses I will only find out later that he has been telling me what is easy for me to hear and in turn believe.
I have tried to talk about my feelings with my husband but when I do he almost immediately becomes defensive, he is not mean about it and he listens to what I say but will very rarely offers any information. If I ask him what it was they talked about, his response will be I don't know, it has been so long ago I can't remember. If I ask him if he ever said anything about me? he will say No, I would never say anything bad about you, I love you. About a month ago my husband found out I had been doing a little snooping around his cell phone again, he was under the impression I could get into his voice mail (I can't, my husband has never offer for me to be able to listen to his voice mail or give me access) he got so mad! He told me he felt like I was trying to build a case to divorce him. I wasn't I just wanted some concrete reassurance. I don't have access to his computer either. I feel there is no way to have reassurance that he is not in contact with the other woman other than him telling me. This so far has not been enough. He has told me that the only way I would be happy is for him to live under my thumb and he was just not going to live like that. I would be glad to hear any other advise you might have.
Thanks [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Acme

Hmmm... your hubby has contracted somewhat of a touchy attitude out of all this, hasn't he????<p>*sigh*<p>Okay, okay, so it is a lovebuster to try tracking his e-mails and voice mail and cookies... Soooo, start with the EN questionnaire and the LB questionnaire. This way you guys can clearly define your lovebusters and begin to work on filling your emotional needs.<p>Now is the time for you to get on your toes and you should be very excited about finding this website. There is so much information that can help you guys!<p>I think your husband should realize that HE is the one who compromised the trust and HE is the one who needs to be proving himself to you--in order to regain (EARN) your trust back.<p>Dr.Harley lists some ways to fill the EN for affection. It sounds like you could also use some of that right now, too, to reassure you.<p>I don't believe your issues are insignificant. Not at all. Please don't feel that way. You are very fortunate to have found this place.<p>I also believe that you should call your H on his "emotional affair" so he can start protecting HIMSELF against his own weaknesses. This didn't happen because YOU were/are inadequate, it happened because HE didn't protect HIMSELF from his own weaknesses. It was not your fault that he decided to call up this OW. READ READ READ the articles and concepts and Q&A's on this site and SHARE SHARE SHARE the principles with your H in a gentle way so he can see you are NOT being unreasonable in your requests. He needs to be more accountable to you. You can't be expected to live like this EITHER!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] What he did is unacceptable to you and it will never be okay.

Not trying to add fuel to your fire, but you know? Maybe he didn't talk about you with the OW, but he certainly wasn't THINKING much of you when he dialed up her number, now was he???<p>I could be all wrong and he might think you are making a big deal out of this but I don't think you are. It's the little foxes that spoil the vine. Might as well nip this in the bud and strengthen you union before anything worse happens because your H might think he is not vulnerable to a PA.<p>Have you ever tried to stop someone from entering a room but they got their foot in the door and it was impossible to get them out? Now is your opportunity to close the door on infidelity before it gets a foot in the door. You have found the right place!!! Please stick around and post updates often! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi there!
I suppose I did a MB no-no with my disrespectful judgment of the OP in my post, sorry! When I speaking re: the thoughts or reasoning behing the OP's actions and I definately defer to BTDT's experiance and wise words in those areas. He always has good points to make! <p>As for my post, I never speak in definates while posting, because all sitations and people are unique. If you notice in the quotes all my statements are prefaced by "if" "often" "probably" and "In my case"<p>But regardless it does look that I may have applied advice from my situation on yours, so I apologize if I steered you wrong. My experiance has been with my WS' deep EA and PA, so sorry if I misunderstood your situation! I thought your WH was in a deeper EA with the OW. <p>
Apologies! Good luck!
-HI [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>Hi there!
I suppose I did a MB no-no with my disrespectful judgment of the OP in my post, sorry! When I speaking re: the thoughts or reasoning behing the OP's actions and I definately defer to BTDT's experiance and wise words in those areas. He always has good points to make!
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hey HanginIn, no worries. I don't think you owe anyone an apology, I was just offering a different perspective for acme to consider since her H was not involved in a full-blown affair... Then again, there ARE such things as D-days #2's and #3's, but hopefully, that will not happen in this case! Her husband's way of overreacting is sending up a red flag in my mind tho, for some reason... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>OH, and I'm flattered that you think I'm a he, but guess what?! I'm NOT! I'm a mom and I'm a wife and I'm a she. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL!

BINthereDunthat:
I was strangely relieved to read you felt there were reasons for red flags. I seem to stay in perpetual confusion. I look at my husband, and he seems to be the same man, he looks like the same man, he is still the best father, son, brother, friend, coworker....and yet he doesn't seem to be the same man at all. He says all the right things to me...velvet tongue.....he is affectionate, we have a great physical relationship but I feel there is a part of him I can't reach or get close to anymore. Like I said before I don't have access to his cell phone messages or his computer and he has made it more than clear for the sake of business he will not give me access. He is gone out of town at least once or twice a month but for the most part he is right here in town (the other women lives about 3hrs from us). I keep trying to reassure myself but at the same time I can imagine all kinds of scenarios that plunge me into despair and sometimes just plain apathy because my dealing with this is moving at such a snails pace. I do appreciate the time you have spent help me. Thank you.
ACME

Emotional Needs Questionnaires<p>Honesty & Openness
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>From Concepts re: Most Important Emotional Needs:<strong>
...Those with a need for honesty and openness want accurate information about their spouses' thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities and plans for the future. If their spouse does not provide honest and open communication, trust is undermined and the feelings of security can eventually be destroyed. They cannot trust the signals that are being sent and feel they have no foundation on which to build a solid relationship. Instead of adjusting, they feel off balance; instead of growing together, they feel as if they are growing apart. <p>Honesty and openness helps build compatibility in marriage. When you and your spouse openly reveal the facts of your past, your present activities, and your plans for the future, you are able to make intelligent decisions that take each other's feelings into account. And that's how you create compatibility -- by making decisions that work well for both of you simultaneously.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dear acme,
It sounds to me like YOU have a big need for your H to be open and honest and he is NOT meeting this need enough to fill your love bank so it is draining. Maybe sexual fulfillment (SF) is NOT one of your top 5 needs, maybe it is, but because he is not being open and honest, it detracts from those other needs being filled. Maybe SF is one of HIS top needs, which is being met, so no complaints from his side! Right?! Right!<p>The thing is tho, and this is bothering me... He wants his privacy and that's bad in a marriage because really, there should be no such thing as "privacy." I mean, if you want privacy, why get married??? Doesn't make sense. I could be wrong, but like this article states, when someone is not open and honest, it affects compatibility esp., since it seems to be a big need of yours.<p>This is strictly my opinion because you know your situation better than anyone... I think on your next date, you should present him with your answers on the questionnaire (re: your top 5 needs) and see if he is open to filling out the answers to find out what HIS top 5 needs are...<p>If he is not open, then back off, but do continue to read here and see if you can gauge what his needs are and begin to fill them as best as you can.<p>There is so much information on this site and it can be info overload if you try to shove it all down his throat at once.<p>Maybe an even better place to start would be to explain the love bank concept to him?<p>You'll begin seeing things more clearly, I believe, as you begin to understand more about YOURSELF! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] That's how relationships work. If you don't know what you really need and want out of your relationships, then you can't effectively communicate those needs. If you don't know exactly what your partner's needs are, then you will be trying to give them what YOU need instead of what THEY need and that won't work either!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Talk at ya later, okay! Have a good weekend!<p>[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>