I am seeing a recurrent theme of "anger" showing up in BS's threads re WS's. I suspect anger has a lot to do with how WS deal with the mess they have created.<p>I know in my case, WH is extremely angry, sometimes coming out in a sort of "rage" that he expresses.....like, "He's ANGRY about his job (hates it, everyone he works with)," "He's ANGRY about (illnesses), whatever...." and then proceeds to RAGE about it!! Whatever.<p>He is NOT a violent person, so please don't jump to that conclusion. IN fact, he's the gentlest person you'd ever want to meet, and never lashed out in anger at me or anyone. But he does have a "latent" personality of anger, feeling like life has treated him UNJUSTLY. But this anger and rage I am now seeing is SOOOO far over the top.....sooo, I guess the question I want to ask is: SOMEONE PLEASE help us understand the RAGE, anger, etc. What is it really masking? Or showing?<p>Can someone please contact Pepper? I read her answer to another thread today, sorry, can't remember which one with a *wonderful* answer about anger....please have her weigh in with her expert opinions.<p>Others who have "researched" this phenomena please help!!<p>TIA

there is a book on the dance of anger and I do know that it ws interesting when I started to read it... but I do not remember a thing... I have an anger problem and I am working this issue in individual counseling... I have extreme anger at ow,, and fil now... it is sad.. the anger is eating at me... and I want to deal with it... now... <p>so anyway the anti d's diffuse my anger I know that.. and I am doing detective work to find out... where all my reactive anger comes from ... I have heard... maybe it was pepper .. that anger comes from inward hate... depression.. is that right? anger at self? I do not even know... to tell you the truth.. maybe that is depression.. but I too, need to know a lot more on this subject... I do know it is a way of protecting yourself... from things... and anger can do that... it often comes when you are violated, is that what pepper band sd... or when something you had as yours is taken away ... etc? is that right? I know that lying... betrayal and being treated like dirt... make me angry? anyone else?<p>thanks guys... H

Rage and anger. When unwarranted, it is usually a cover. Right?<p>Well that is JMHO. The WS is the one who has this raging anger......often pointed at the BS and the rest of the world. (oh yea, except the OP and sometimes even them). Well, it is just a way to throw everyone off the track of the real problem. <p>So we need to look past the anger and id the real problem. It is hard for the WS to have rage, when they are walking around with the naked truth staring at them in the face. <p>Now pix that. Can't get mad at a 'nekked WS running around trying to cover themselves up'! Gotta just laugh. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Hi Lupo, My prayers are with you...Pepper replied to my thread and gave me something to think about more closely. Pepper writes:<p>"This is really an interesting part of your story. Anger is a fascinating emotion. It is almost always a secondary emotion ... brought on by a different emotion that has been denied or overlooked. The primary emotion preceeding anger is often something like shame, or embarrasment, or a sense of having been violated or cheated out of something one thought one was entitled to. Or, feeling out of control. Or wounded pride.<p>Just as an exercise for you to step back, away from your husbands anger ... can you imagine what the underlying primary emotion might be that propells your husbands anger? I think he might feel cheated about something. (?) Sometimes, when I'm dealing with an angry patient, I'll ask the angry person: "What is hurting you right now?" ... occasionally that question will *pop* them out of their anger and realize what the emotion underneath the anger is all about.<p>Don't focus on his anger... and do not own responsibility of his anger ... although he's trying to shove that anger into your face: "Look what you MADE me do!!!" ......... naw, don't buy that bag'o'horsecrap!<p>If you stay calm, and avoid ownership of his anger ... YOU retain your personal power (not to mention your dignity)."

The outward display of rage and anger is a result of the psychological defense mechanism called PROJECTION.<p>WS is angry,and frustrated that the A, which produces such intense highs at times, also causes much indecision, guilt, confusion,and makes them the "bad guy" in the eyes mind of many who are close to them. WS is so unable to "own" responsibility for these feelings and acknowledge that they are the one responsible for causing themself to have these feelings that they get angry and rage. When they cannot come to terms with or do not want to acknowledge the fact that the negative feelings they are having are their own responsibility they PROJECT that anger onto BS and anyone and anything else they have the opportunity to project it onto. By coping through projection they avoid ever having to face or admit that they are at fault and are they only one who can do anything to change they negative feelings thay are having.<p>IMHO this is a good reason to let WS suffer the natural consequences of their behavior and to go to extreme lengths not to enable affair behavior.When WS has no choice but the face the consequences of their behavior, and BS goes about living their life to better themself, WS soon doesn't have BS to project the anger onto and just might have to start waking up to the reality of the mess they've gotten themselves. Making WS responsible for what is "theirs" helps them move a step closer to realizing that they are the only one who has any control to do something about all they negative feelings they are having.

Wow, mthrrhbard and pepper and terrified must be in my counseling sessions!<p>Really though that is some fantastic advice and knowledge. In my counseling I am learning some of the same things.<p>It is so hard to not buy into what another person is trying to project on you, something my counselor has said has really stuck. When engaged in a situation and you feel something is being thrust on you, blame, shame, guilt, etc, chances are really pretty good that the WS is projecting onto you what they are feeling so that don't have to deal with it themselves. It is hard but try to remember that!!<p>terrified also stated something I have been learning how to do, if you can exercise stepping back it can be very helpful!<p>My prayers are also with you, this is really a journey!

Wow... thanks ladies. This is great info. I'm going print and re-read this stuff.<p>My X was angry at everything and everybody. I just always felt like he was reaching for someone or something to blame for his lack of responsibility. ...Trying to find SOME *proof* that he had been treated unfairly. He thought he deserved *better* in life, and put everything in his life down - found fault in everything and everybody. He is truly SUCH a good person - with good morals and standards - I just know he's going to feel AWFUL about himself when he realizes what he's done.<p>mthrrhbard said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Making WS responsible for what is "theirs" helps them move a step closer to realizing that they are the only one who has any control to do something about all they negative feelings they are having. <hr></blockquote><p>thank you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] amen sister [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

My understanding is basically what everyone's saying. Anger comes when you don't acknowledge pain or hurt (guilt, etc). In my case (from another experience, not this one), it lead to a very serious depression because I didn't resolve the anger. <p>I had delayed grief from when my mum first went into a nursing home, it hit me a couple of years later and I had no idea what was going on in my life, outward appearences showed there was nothing to be sad about-everything was perfect. <p>During this experience (H's A) I have not really been angry, because I've really really felt the pain (god have I felt the pain), I've written about it, worked it through. I often come here and write. If I'm angry, I ask myself, what's the anger about, what is that person doing that hurts so much. It may be a hurt to my pride, self esteem, whatever. If I need to I cry or talk myself through it, or talk to someone else.<p>May I suggest that you really listen to your husband, reflect what he is experiencing, he may give a clue to what he's feeling, you can reflect that too. Get some info about listening to people. Its hard when you seem to be the focus of the anger, but you can diffuse it if you listen to him and show him your listening. Of course counselling would be the best, but I know my H won't go.

Thanks, everyone, for your input.<p>Honey, I hear your posts filled with stories of you H's anger, and I see how hurting he is....I kind of feel that way about my WH, but he puts on a "happy face" when around me, then TALKS all angry. (?!?!) I don't REact in anger, though. Serves no purpose for me. I need a clear head to think through what he's trying to say.<p>Orchid, as usual, your "vision" of the "nekkid" and raging WH is hysterical! I LOVE how you find the humor in all this where ever possible. It helps keep us (BS's) sane.<p>T, yes, it was Pepper's reply to your thread that got me thinking about all this. Trying to "see" what WH's problem is......he "supposedly" has everything he wanted when he left. WHAT THE HECK DOES HE HAVE TO STILL BE ANGRY ABOUT!?!?!? As I said, apparently EVERYTHING!!! His job, his finances, his friends, his truck, his health, his life......the list appears endless. <p>Mttrrhbard,I think YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!! He'd have to take OWNERSHIP of this mess, if he were to acknowledge his guilt, and other feelings. Instead, he's still trying to BLAME others, everyone else. In fact, my own suspicions are that ow is "helping" feed this rage, by allowing (helping??) him to remain angry at ME for preventing their "happiness" from coming to fulfillment. Ah, well, their time is coming. THEN who will he (and she) hold accountable for his unhappiness?<p>Oh so Confused,
Please understand that he really can't project this onto me....as he isn't around!! I don't "buy into" it anyway, never have allowed this type of thinking to "control me" or sway my behavior (yes, it IS a pattern he exhibited early on in our M, and during rough times, but I had him pretty much "broken" of it - NOW IT"S HER TURN!!!). Hmmm, wonder if she's all nice and sweet and gonna be able to free herself from his RAGE over the terrible life he's going to experience at HER hand????? Hmmmmmm.<p>Faith, Lil Sis, I soooo appreciate your replying to me. YOUR H sounds so much LIKE MINE!!! Aren't they just SOOOO confused???? The "trying to find proof of being treated unfairly" is just SO CLOSE TO HOME to me. My WH often said those things, especially IN THE BEGINNING. I finally got him to see that HIS OWN CHOICES were a big reason for the unhappiness, and changing your choices would result in better decisions. Now? Now, I see him REGRESSING into a bitter, angry, EXTREMELY unhappy person. I feel sorry for him, I really do!! I also agree with you that he's going to feel REALLY bad about what's he's done when he realizes it. When the "fog" clears. I pray for clear days ahead soon.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>May I suggest that you really listen to your husband, reflect what he is experiencing, he may give a clue to what he's feeling, you can reflect that too.<hr></blockquote>
Seahorse,
I've tried to learn to "actively listen" to WH when he talks. I DO hear some stuff.....but mostly all I hear is FOGESE!!! I just do not see how his life can be so all-fired terrible when these are HIS choices! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I guess until they wake up from this whatever overtakes them they won't see it, eh? <p>Thanks, everyone for interesting and insightful answers to a most complicated subject.

lupolady, thanks for the great post. I didn't really realize that this is such a common theme for WS's. I attributed my WH's anger to his alcohol and substance abuse rather than to his A.<p>My H isn't violent either, but he can't talk to me without raging at me, blaming me and my pre-A behavior for all our problems from A to pending D. He also feels he's being treated unjustly, by me mostly.<p>Sometimes he gets in touch with true feelings and admits to wanting to make me hurt like he is hurting. Little does he know, I already am and have been ever since he moved in with OW almost 17 months ago.<p>I'm functioning better than he is so he probably thinks I'm feeling better. I'm just trying to do the best I can under the circumstances.<p>He talked to a friend of mine yesterday with the purpose of explaining to her what I've done and am doing to him so she could get me to understand. As she said, he's in a very dark place and takes no responsibility for where he's at.