Maybe I just haven't been around much lately. But it seems like the main focus on here lately has been on the WS, what they are doing, analyzing their behavior...etc.<p>Here's a small but very important part of my thread on Detachment:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Why…?<p>The main reason most of us ask why is because we believe with a little more knowledge and a few more details, we can "control" the situation and or person. Asking "why" only wastes our energy - it rarely changes anything.
<hr></blockquote><p>That being said, how about talking about ourselves?<p>For example...instead of analyzing and obsessing about the anger shown by a WS....<p>what about YOUR anger? How are you coping with it? Are you supressing it? Deflecting it? Taking it out on others including the WS? Are you journaling, in counseling? Are you taking care of your needs? What ARE your needs? What is this journey teaching you?<p>The rule on this thread is that you can't talk about your WS. Talk about you.

BrambleRose,<p>
Whenever a person, place or thing bothers me, the answer is ALWAYS within me. ACCEPTANCE is the answer, accepting the person, place or thing

BR, this is a good idea. I know that I focus WAY too much on my FWH emotional state, always worrying about how he is doing, thinking, etc. Must be the codependent in me!<p>I have finally found my anger, I've had it stuffed away since I found out on D-day. I was finally able to focus some of that anger in the right direction, at H for his terribly hurtful and destructive behavior. I had previously been deflecting it to OW. I still often get flashes of anger towards them but also see how he had a large role in what he did. This, I believe, will eventually allow me to be able to process it and let it go. Its not as bad as I thought it would be, to acknowledge it. I was afraid for a long time that if I ever let it out, it would bring the house down around our ears! Well, it didn't. <p>I am in counseling and on anti-D, which has helped alot but doesn't keep emotions from gushing out periodically. I feel blue and cry quite often. I don't journal, but consider what I read and write on this site to be one way that I take care of myself. I also treat myself and my kids to something nice every so often, it cheers us all up. Thats also taking care of us.<p>Needs? Still trying to see clearly what those are, I have denied them for so long that I am not sure what they are. Except to have a faithful, loving H who will help me heal from all this. I pray that is what I get. C

I, the BS, am working on becoming less selfish. I'm also working on focusing on my spouse's strong points instead of his weaknesses. I am becoming more courteous to the sweet people I live with called my family. (2 small children and hubby). I am refusing to let myself dwell and mull over the past. I am working on becoming my husband's helper, cheerleader, best friend, lover etc. instead of his mother and boss.

Hi Rosie - you are a wise Babe!<p>As you probably know, I am the comsumate analyzer. I find comfort in understanding why things happen, I guess in an effort to ensure I wasn't responsible. <p>It's OK for me that things happen because of bad luck or random occurences. For example, I'm OK with the loss of my son - I don't like it, but I'm accepting it - because I studied his disease and communicated with LOTS of knowledgable people about it and I'm convinced he died because he was one of the unlucky few who contract that disease. Nothing I or anyone else did played a role in it. Further, our family did all we could to cure it and there is nothing more that could have been done given current knowledge.<p>I guess the most important thing I have learned in my challenges is that I cannot change anyone other than myself. Most of my life, I've been changing things. I can fashion a piece of wood into a thing of beauty, I can produce a beautiful lawn, I can manipulate wind and water to make a sailboat go anywhere I want, I can even take part in creating a beautiful boy. I can change my view on political issues and my spiritual beliefs. But, I have learned, I cannot make any other person do or think anything without their consent. And now, I have changed my view of the world to accept this.<p>Thanks for asking.

OOPS -<p>Hit a button & it posted! I'll start over -<p>Whenever a person, place or thing bothers me, the answer is ALWAYS within me. ACCEPTANCE is the answer, accepting the person, place or thing EXACTLY as they are.<p>What I do:
I feel my feelings, the hurt, the pain, the anger.<p>I journal<p>I post on these boards<p>Attend Prayer Group<p>Attend AA meetings (almost 10 yrs)<p>Share what I am going through with a few trusted friends<p>Work on building the image of the me I want to be, defining the characteristcs, the qualities.<p>I do the same for my M - What does the vision of my restored M look like?<p>I pray<p>I read<p>I study<p>I try to get out of myself and help others<p>
My needs -
For God to be #1 in my life<p>To have a Christ centered marriage where there is mutual trust and respect, where I am loved, honored and cherished.<p>To serve God and be of use to others.<p>To be OK with me no matter what happens to my M.<p>To be honest & forthright<p>To walk through my fears and face whatever needs to be dealt with as we grow closer(I think) to recovery. <p>To continually look at myself, doing a daily inventory of myself. <p>To believe in myself<p>
Thanks BrambleRose this is a good thread<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Hm...<p>Okay. About me. Well, much of what I'm about these days is how I'm dealing with the complete overturn of all that I thought I knew about my M since D-day, 3 months ago. I've learned a heck of a lot in just the past 3 days. It's been like that though.<p>I can put a finger on what my W means when she says "I haven't listened to her" for the past 12 years. I have, but she interrupts me or finishes my thoughts for me, instead of giving me time to formulate them for myself. When we were dating, this was cute, but not anymore. <p>I can see the underlying cause of my fear of losing my W for some years now, even well before I was aware of her A. When she tries to make a point, she does so in as blunt and hurtful a way as possible. Like instead of saying something like "it's easier to be romantic in a casual relationship where you don't have to be around the person all the time, than it is within a M", she'll say "You can love someone until you have to live with them." I'm starting to realize that, in her case, this may actually be true. That she's better off with a remote relationship than a M, and I'm starting to feel okay with that, if that's what she needs.<p>I realize that, because of the above, it's simply impossible that I'm 100% responsible for the withdrawal within our M, and I'm certainly not responsible for her A. We haven't even scratched the surface of what baggage she's brought into this over 11 years ago. And, Just Learning, my IC confirmed what you suggested on another thread, that our MC may have been appearing to "pick on" me because she saw me as the "strong" one within our M, the one most willing to save the M, and so the best person to start with to get my W to open up. It really makes sense now.<p>I also have decided to ask my W and our MC not to even discuss the OM from now on, so I can focus on our relationship. Some of you will remember that my W has refused to sever contact with OM, and insists she should be able to send personal emails to him from now on if that's what she wants to do, without telling me anything. So... I can either quit now, go directly to plan B, or I can deal with it to the best of my abilities and see if we can make progress anyway. But only for a while. I have my limits. This doesn't mean I won't insist on eventual no contact. I have. But they know what I feel about OM and what I need W to do about him. So that ball will be in my W's court, and I won't LB while I try working on our R (knowing full well that she's disrespecting me and our M by continuing to consider OM as a friend).<p>We have a complicated life these days, what with rebuilding our house after the fire last fall, and extended family commitments and potential new job offers in the works. But I've decided that I will be okay with whatever I have to do, whether it be with my W as a M'd couple, or as a single dad. I don't think I even hurt that much contemplating the single dad option either. In some ways, it will get rid of a lot of pain I've felt, but not understood, for over 11 years now. <p>We'll see.<p>Thanks for the thread. This is interesting.

what about YOUR anger? How are you coping with it? Are you supressing it? Deflecting it?
Taking it out on others including the WS? Are you journaling, in counseling? Are you taking care of your needs? What ARE your needs? What is this journey teaching you?The rule on this thread is that you can't talk about your WS. Talk about you.<p>ooh, how lovely! I'm tired of analysing and second-guessing my spouse! me me me time!<p>How am I dealing with my anger? Well, I'm in IC and I talk about it with my counsellor. I started a journal. I am no longer suppressing or deflecting my anger, I am not taking it out on FWS. I have accepted that the A happened, it's over, some irreparable damage has been done. I can't continue to obsess over it. Trying to understand "why" is fruitless. Just as if I got hit by a car and crippled, knowing why I got hit would not undo the damage to my body. And I could not afford to spend my life brooding over why I got hurt, and obsessing bitterly over the details and psychoanalysing the driver of the car. I'd have to find other ways to live my life fully. So what I'm dealing with now is not so much anger, as the lingering dregs of resentment. Present anger: if my spouse does or says something that upsets me, I tell him in a respectful fashion and we talk it through. <p>My needs: emotional security. This is a mirage, unless the security is nucleated within myself. So I'm working on me. My child within, healing my spiritual wounds, trying to accept that I am already the me that is worthy of my own love and respect. Not easy - an understatement, but vital if I am to thrive instead of barely survive.<p>Other needs: well, the ENs are fairly well taken care of now within my marriage. I need companionship, so I've made a girlfriend. I've known her for 2 years, always kept my distance because she and her H have been friends with my H for nearly 30 years! Now, however, we do girl things together. We went shopping twice! Bought clothes the first time, spent a glorious day in Ikea the second. We talk, and we have coffee while our men are indulging in their coin passion. We discuss home decor and work on each other's projects, like choosing stunning colour schemes for the kitchen. I have an online girlfriend too, to whom I can open myself fully because she too is a FBS and we followed each other's posts for over a year before swopping private email addresses.<p>What am I learning on this journey? "To mine own self I must be true." That's a dreadful ripoff, I suppose. But true. I'm learning to be my true self, instead of always looking to others for cues, approval and affirmation and trying to make my self into the image they would like. I'm learning that life is not all black or white, that there are gradations and many levels. I'm learning to live in the present instead of running like hell from my past and shrinking in terror from the unknowns of the future.
I'm learning that pain is absolute, nobody should feel ashamed or superior because s/he sees her/his pain as lesser or greater than somebody else's. I'm learning compassion. I'm learning to turn my hypervigilant awareness onto myself, in a healthy way, so I can learn to recognise what I'm feeling when and act appropriately on it.<p>I'm doing a writing course on writing your life story, which is giving me scads of new perspectives and things are beginning to heal. <p>I'm taking responsibility for my own life and my own happiness. I chose to stay with my H. Therefore I can no longer blame him for his A. It's my choice to be here, my decision. So I choose to do whatever it takes to make myself happy. I'd rather be happy with him, because I love him, but I will not be miserable with him because I love him. I choose to meet his ENs and avoid LBs, not out of fear, but because I'm Plan Aing myself.<p>Screeds of words! Thanks, BR,

EXCELLENT THREAD!!!!!!!!

I'm trying to work through the anger and feeling the pain. I cry when I want to, write when I want to, talk when I want to.<p>I find I am intolerant of young asian women which frightens me, I was NEVER EVER intolerant of anyone. I know that its just reactive and will eventually pass.<p>I'm reading. Cureently the 5 love languages, it very good. I reread posts and information and try to take in stuff I missed. <p>I do try to analyse what exactly went wrong, but can't put my finger on any one thing. I think it was a whole bunch of things and I don't think I totally to blame.<p>I've learnt that all those times I leaned on h I had the strength within me to cope.<p>That I can't control any situation or person. This has been a blessing. I'm less stressed. I even noted this morning, I was getting cranky with the dog and I realised its because things weren't going as I wanted. The anger difused after that.<p>That life's dosen't owe any one anything and never promised anything (It was our parents that instilled that myth in us). Just because you do all the right things, it dosen't mean life will be good to you.<p>That actually I do like sex, I just never prioritised it.<p>That I am far too trusting of people and get burnt regularly.<p>I'm struggling with feeling worthwhile. To be honest, I trying to figure out what makes me a worthwhile person at all.<p>That most of life is just a state of mind.<p>That my main emotional need is quality time.<p>and saddest of all... I'm slowly falling out of love with the person I thought was my lifetime partner. I'm really grieving for this relationship.<p>Liz<p>[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Hey WAT,<p>You said:
"...I can manipulate wind and water to make a sailboat go anywhere I want..."<p>You can do that? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You da man!<p>Myself... I've found that I can really only manipulate the sailboat. But, you know what, I still can make that durn thing go pretty much anywhere I want... in spite of where the wind and water are trying to push me. I have some control over myself (oops, I meant the boat).<p>Also, I'm discovering that I can change my mind!!!! I started out pointing the boat toward the west side of the bay... now that I'm in the middle the south side sure looks pretty - might go check that out instead. I mean, whoever said that just because I planned a trip west and made a good start, that I really had to end up there? I guess I thought there was a rule about that, or something. Hmmm...<p>BR: I'm assuming we can speak figuratively? <p>Jeffers

Yea, OK Jeff, I guess you're right. I can't actually manipulate the wind and water. I can only manipulate the sails and rudder to shift the course of the boat from a direction far to the right, say, of the direction in which I want to go, to a direction far to the left of it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WAT

JSO:<p>I rarely get angry. I get moody. I keep it in, for the most part. I work through what's happened, come up with responses... all long after the fact, and so seldom very productive. <p>I don't journal much, because I feel that my posts here are a reasonable journal and they are SAFE from prying eyes (like my WW, if she were inclined, but I don't really think she is). It's also a good way to modulate what I write, because some of the stuff I've journaled is pretty harsh when I look back at it. It's total venting, even. Most of what I wrote then (a month ago and earlier) is so full of anger that it intimidates even me now when I look at it. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Having said that, I think I'm coping pretty well. I am nicer and more considerate of others than I have been in decades. not that I wasn't a nice guy, but now I keep up a concious effort, even with people I meet casually. Makes me feel good, when that's otherwise hard to do.<p>I'm in counseling. Have a IC at work that I've seen 4 times now. Have a private IC I've seen about 5 times. They're both great. We have a MC at Kaiser that we've seen 3 times now (sessions are averaging about 2-3 weeks apart, and so not often enough). We've just started getting somewhere with her this past Tuesday, and fortunately the next one is next week, so I'm optimistic we'll get into some of the core issues in our M. My W has and IC now at Kaiser that she's seen once so far.<p>I'm taking care of some of my needs, and have to shelve others, when dealing with W. Am also getting some met by my kids - they're great to be around. My son and I are building a couple of model planes together, and he's got a trainer that he's learning to fly.<p>As for my own M'ital needs: I rank them
1) Honesty and Openness
2) Affection
3) Admiration
4) Sexual Fulfillment
5) Conversation<p>Ranking these isn't easy for me, because I wonder if I'm putting honesty at the top because of what's happened, but I don't think so really. Putting SF at #4 was hard, too, because I have a very strong sex drive, but I really think that's where it belongs because I don't feel at all fulfilled if I just "knock it out". I need to express and feel affection long before and after the act. I like being admired, frankly. Before D-day, probably I felt selfish when I wanted admiration for what I do and have done. This was one of the things about me that pi$$ed my W off in the last couple of years, too. Not that I gloat, I don't think I do. But she hated the attention I got, whether I sought it or not. But now, I'm not ashamed of my abilities and accomplishments, so I'm putting that bad boy back at #3 where I think it belongs! One other that seems important in some regard as it relates to SF, but I honestly don't believe is a valid EN, is AS. My wife is beautiful to me, frankly. Not a model, but she sure could have been when she was 20 years younger! I told her I'll think she's beautiful when we're in our 80's, if I live that long and we're still together. And so I really believe that AS is an outcome of the other things I feel, not the other way around.<p>I'm learning one helluva lot about human behavior and interaction than I ever learned in the previous 48 years of my life. Sad, but very true. I'm learning to be confident, that I have every right to be happy, and that I can be the source of my own happiness. It helps to have a loving family and even a loving WS, but you said I'm not supposed to talk about her (I know, I've done it again already anyway!).<p>I'm learning just how rewarding it is for me to post on this forum. Both to help myself figure my s**t out, and to help others with their own situations.<p>You troops are great!

Another thing about me that I didn't notice until recently. <p>I sing pretty well, and used to sing in the car when on long drives alone. But I always stopped when another car came up alongside or I was stopped at a light. Now I don't care. I sing with the stereo all the time driving to and from work. I don't care anymore if anyone sees me singing by myself in my car. I'm having fun!

I do that now too 2long

If all I had to think about was me then I would be the happiest person alive. I am consistently working to not let others pull me into their crap. I have so much in my life that is precious and good and I am enjoying life more and more. I have a decent job, I have trustworthy friends who care for me deeply, I have sons that I love very much, I have many interests that bring me alot of satisfaction. I have peace and serenity when I let go and let God do His thing (which is getting more and more).
I have tools (both spiritual and emotional) to work through the problems and struggles in life. I have so many neat material things. I also have me. I am really getting to know me and I am feeling freer to accept me as I am. What a journey!!!!!! I am also learning to say no and place my boundaries right where they belong.<p>Been doing a super Bible Study called Breaking Free with Beth Moore. It is a women's study but I hear men are getting alot out of it also. It is about the generational stuff passed on that effects us and tries to steer us away from God and what He wants for our lives. Last week the video was on the Binding the Brokenhearted. It was about the things that carve empty places in our souls. Loss and unfilled needs carve empty places, God carves empty places that only He can fill. We try to fill those empty places with things that can't satisfy. We do things that make our life more painful. The study goes on to explain how you can let God fill you with His Living Water. I highly recommend to all those who are struggling with the pain of infidelity and divorce. It even has a lesson on Betrayal. <p>TW

BR, great idea. I know I'm one who focuses too much on my WH's anger at me because it frightens me.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>what about YOUR anger? How are you coping with it? Are you supressing it? Deflecting it? Taking it out on others including the WS? Are you journaling, in counseling? Are you taking care of your needs? What ARE your needs? What is this journey teaching you?<hr></blockquote><p>I have a hard time getting angry. I usually suppress it or turn it on myself. When I do get angry, it usually motivates me to take care of myself better, to stand up for myself. <p>I sometimes take it out on WS. When he attacks verbally, I get on the defensive. Sometimes I get angry and attack back. <p>I journal - the problem here is that WS finds it and reads it and then trashes me for it (He also reads what I write here and does the same). He never could understand the usefulness of journaling for venting feelings without releasing them at the person you're angry at and using it instead to find out what feelings are underlying the anger.<p>I also am in IC and go to 4 AlAnon meetings a week. This is the main way I take care of my needs. I need the love and support of other people and I get it in AlAnon and here at MB.<p>This journey is teaching me about my strength and courage to face my fears of being alone, running a business alone, and dealing with my part in our marital breakdown.<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: LetSTry ]</p>