realllllly slow nite here on MB... where is everyone??<p>well, I'll go ahead and post my dilemma, and trust that some help will be around sometime soon [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I haven't posted in a while. Divorce moved along ok. Was finalized on 3/1. Plan B has been fine. THe only contact has been financial details and settlement negotiation via e-mail. Last nite he came to the house to complete the tax forms.<p>We have been trying to meet for the last 3 weekends to do the taxes. We both rescheduled the first weekend - he cancelled last weekend cuz he had been "sick for 3 days". It's been nearly impossible getting responses from him all week. We finally agreed on last nite, and it worked out fine.<p>Remember, contact has been VERY little. Not friendly (not rude either though). No small talk. No personal talk. no friendship.<p>We had SUCH a good nite last nite. I thought it would be awkward - I hated violating Plan B, but thought we could keep things quick, quiet and business-like. We ended up laughing and joking the whole time. it was very strange. I was relaxed - he seemed relaxed. Joking and teasing each other. Towards the end he said, "call me if you ever need anything." It was about 2 hours.<p>ok, well, I thought this was all strange - that we got along well and it wasn't awkward. but I really didn't read too much into it. He's been saying all along that he wanted to "remain friends". So I figured this was his way of trying to be friends. <p>There's the background leading up to tonight (Friday nite).<p>6:15 tonite he called my cell. I wasn't available so didn't answer. I saw his call around 8 but didn't call or anything - he didn't leave a message. 9:00 I checked my home messages and he said, (best I can remember), "I need to talk to you - I need someone to talk to. You're probably my best friend right now - I - I know I've put you through he!! - but - I - just need to talk to someone"<p>I called and couldn't reach him. Finally got him at 9:30. He seemed ok, said he had an argument with his sister (financial stuff he helped her with - that I advised him against doing) - and I knew her better than anyone else - and he just wanted to talk to me about it. he said he overreacted by calling me upset, and that he's ok. hmmmmm.... I didn't rush in, but could tell something was not right... so I fished a little.... to get him to talk a little more. He just talked more about that. She was getting behind - she's irresponsible - he should've listened to me - I was right - he apologizes for not listening to me about her situation.<p>I'm thinking to myself - if OW's so great - why couldn't he talk to her about it? hmmmm... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] He asked me about my weekend plans - small talk - and was ready to get off the phone and I said, "can I ask you a question?" he said yes.<p>well, while I was waiting for him to call back, I drove by OW's apt, and no cars were there (3). So, either one's in the shop and both are out for the nite, or they don't live there anymore. Sooooo. I asked him, "Did ya'll move?"<p>he hesitated.... I asked again... he said why<p>I said, "after i got your messge and couldn't reach you, I was a little concerned, so I drove by to see what cars were there to give me a clue - I was worried about you."<p>he hesitated and said, "yes, we moved"<p>I said "moved?"<p>He said "yes, i moved."<p>"YOU moved?"<p>"Yes."<p>"You ummm have an apartment?"<p>"yes"<p>"ok"<p>I was so nervous - didn't want to be nosey!!! grrrrrrr.....<p>so we got off the phone, with "take care"s, and "talk to ya later"'s....<p>I don't know if the A is over, or just a fight, or if he wasn't telling the whole truth and THEY moved somewhere together. But why the need to talk to me? Why the small talk conversation and laughing after all this time???<p>I knowwwwwwww not to read too much into this. I've been debating whether or not to stay in plan B or not. I thought after last nite that we could get along and it didn't hurt. Someone reminded me today that being "friends" pretty much accepts and approves of what they did and are doing. SO I decided to stay in Plan B.<p>Well, now if he's reaching out - how tough should I be? Why do I keep having to come ask you this question every 3 months???? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I Promise: I'm NOT getting my hopes up that the fog has cleared. I'm NOT going to jump back into Plan A. But I just don't know HOW available to be if he tries to contact me. I don't want to be rude. I don't WANT him back right now.<p>I guess I'm just giving you an update. I THOUGHT this roller coaster was over. I THOUGHT I had closure.<p>Who are some MB folks that recovered after divorce so I can do some reading? It may be nothing... but I want to do some reading - so I can handle these temporary fog-clearings. I feel (felt) so clueless and helpless talking to him tonight.<p>OK... just wanted to update you. I need your thoughts and opinions on Plan A or Plan B after divorce, and any experience from anyone that's been there....<p>thanks!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

I am around ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... but I am just starting my Dv process so I do not qualify to answer your questions. But this is my 2¢, you should try to move on and do not go back to 'coaster ride any more. If H wants you, it is his time to make a move. Legally and spiritually you are single ... let him court you if H wants you back. Do not second guess.<p>God Bless you -RH-

Dear Faith,<p>Well me and another 2 cents here.........I'm not really qualified either but since we are not 'licensed authorities' I guess I can give you my opinion.<p>Sounds like the A is dying. So are his other relationships........ he may be remembers who really loves him vs those that use him. <p>Of course he may be feeling like a heel, but remember he did say 'yes WE did move'. Then changed it. Now why would he do that? Ok, I'm analyzing here but I'm out in CA so isn't that far enough? LOL !!!!<p>My dear, I for one do not want to see you hurt again. If there is anything good left in him let him come and deposit it at your doorstep. If he wants let him show that this is his start. <p>I suspect you may be getting a few more of these calls. If and when you do, just be that nice but firm Faith we know. He must have respect for you. You deserve no less. <p>You have your group of supporters all around you. Isn't Jeffers nearby? H2y, Z, Jo, JDmac, Topie, JL, RedHat, Indy, Cali Wat, .......many others are here for U. Oh yea, me too!!!<p>Let him come to you Faith. Be that gracious and lovely lady that deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. <p>Hugz,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Faith1:
<strong>OK... just wanted to update you. I need your thoughts and opinions on Plan A or Plan B after divorce, and any experience from anyone that's been there....<p>thanks!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hey Faith,<p>Ok, I have 2 cents as well and a different experience.<p>I can relate to being relaxed and enjoying time with your xH. Once the pressure of the D was over and the A was really dead and gone, me and my xW could just be ourselves again. When we did start seeing each other again, I was very surprised at how easily we got along and how things almost seemed normal. <p>DON'T get your hopes up at all, move on with your life, continue with what you're doing, no LBing. <p>Once I really moved on, my xW finally realized what she had lost. By then I was fine with the D. I was happily moving on without her and starting to date again. It took her seeing me move on happily without her to feel the loss and to really miss me.<p>For a month or so she had hit rock bottom. Called me crying at times. She started acting like she wanted to do more with me, but I was never open to anything besides seeing each other while doing the kid swapping thing.<p>I took a chance and gave in to pressure one night around Xmas and let her drop by. One thing led to another and we're now engaged to be remarried this summer. As far as the weeks leading up to her dropping by... I was very short with her, not loving at all, but not mean. I definetly let her make the moves and did not seem interested in anything serious for a while, besides I really enjoyed her chasing me for a change.<p>It did take about 4 months after the A had ended for her to fully come around. We did have a false recovery right after the A ended. <p>I wouldn't recommend this road for anybody, but anything is possible.<p>Good luck!<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: kb4jb ]</p>

Why do you want to consider recoverying with someone who used you? The only reason he is doing this is cause peole, (humans) really hate"losing" things....he is pursuing you just because (and that is pursuit, the thing about sister was pure bs, what if you were dead, would he call a "medium" to contact you). And even if his affair dies, so what...you want to be the consolation prize in someones life? He didn't choose you, you know all you need to know....insist he have NO contact with you until you are able to just view him as a friend (assuming he is worthy of friendship)...in the meantime purge your psyche of "him" so you can be emotionally available to someone who chooses YOU. This (post-divorce) is a very vulnerable time, you should probably have no relationship (romantic) with anyone for a year or so....do yourself that servive.

Well, Faith, I'm not surprised.<p>My suggestion is to Plan B, Plan B, Plan B. Have faith in Plan B and keep Faith in Plan B. <p>On the surface, JB and snl provide a contrast in views, perhaps. But I think they are relating exactly the same thing, just in different timeframes.<p>I strongly recommend - and I ask JB to comment given his experience - that you NOT exit Plan B, NOT return to Plan A. Basically - don't rescue him. He needs to rescue himself. By denying him this opportunity for growth, you will be doing you both a disservice.<p>Maybe, just maybe, he'll eventually crawl out of the gutter on his own. Maybe he won't. If you give him a hand up, we'll never know. Maybe, if he recovers correctly on his own, you can create a JB happy ending. Because JB has children, he obviously had a strong motivation to give it a go. I shouldn't speak for him - sorry JB. But you don't have this motivation and it can be easier for you to move on - not easy, just easier, perhaps.<p>Someone

Some very good points.<p>As I see it, Faith...an affair is an excuse to run away from problems and pain. You get to be the "reason" so the problem is easily solved by dumping you. But guess what...those problems are reality and will follow him wherever he goes. As he begins to realize this he starts to feel discomfort again...then panic sets in that he may have done the wrong thing and now he's all alone. Hey, let him be all alone for a while...maybe then he'll stop running long enough to figure some things out. You CAN'T be there for him right now...don't you dare let him take you on that rollercoaster with him. YOU set boundries that YOU need. He will just have to live with that. Honestly...it's the best thing you could ever do for him...and yourself. Next time he needs someone to lean on...don't be available or cut him short because you're just heading out. You can be empathetic and still keep some emotional distance. If he starts calling lots DO NOT fall for that panic talk...you've got to stay strong. I waffled over and over each time reality got tough. We'd get close, then I'd push him away, then we'd get close etc etc. Give him some time to deal with himself. Good luck!

Thank you all VERY much!!! What the heck would I do without my MB family? <p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ok. Your replies are great. I'm re-reading and thinking (I have a slow processor - I need to upgrade my brain to pentium or something [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), and will be back to comment or ask more questions for clarification.<p>Anyone else with some thoughts - keep 'em coming!<p>Huggggs to everyone... be back in a few.

Faith,<p> Good advice. Up to a point. You asked the question of staying in Plan B or moving back to Plan A. Well you can't have it both ways, can you?
Plab B says "NO CONTACT". Ok, so how will you know if he has made any changes? How will you know if he has climbed out of the gutter? Answer= you won't. That is, not if you stay in Plan B. <p> You can have boundries. You can be the Faith you have grown into. Strong and confident, not a doormat, and at least be in a modified Plan B.<p> I will ask you one question. Everyone else can give their own personal answers if they want.<p> Faith1, WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why did you come to this site and why are you here still today? IS it just because of the friendships you have made? Just to make changes to yourself?<p> Hell no! You came here to save your marriage AND make needed changes within yourself. Most of us have seen the growth blossom in you Donna. You are stronger, more confident, well grounded, and pretty sure of yourself and what you want. <p> I would point you back to CarolK's thread on 180's(somewhat different situation I know, but still with tons of potential for you). <p> Well, I won't ramble anymore. I just don't want you to lose what might be the last chance to move in the right direction, the direction you have prayed for and wanted for far too long.<p> Take it slow but Don't cut him out completely as Plan B would have you do. I agree with the others, let him do the work. Let him pursue you. At the same time don't lose the growth you have gained. <p> Remember why you are here. <p> jd

faith1,<p>I have to agree with the advice you've gotten. Continue in plan B. He's got to deal with the "aftermath" of the mess he created on his own. It's the key to his growth. Whatever pain he's feeling is a direct result of the choices he's made. You can't allow yourself to get sucked back into that. He's got to feel that he's really lost you (and he may have) to really appreciate you.<p>I understand snl's point about be a consolation prize, but the way I see it, if you would have taken him back before the D, would you still have been a consolation prize? Why close the door on that possibility post D? The only difference is the lengths you've both gone to to get to this point. He'll just have to do more to win you back now, and IMO the key is he'll have to WIN you back on your terms. Move on with your life and let him do whatever he needs to to get back in, if that's what you want. But hey don't listen to me, I'm getting divorced so what do I know. <p>sad dad<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

Hi Faith,<p>It sure can be baffling, can't it?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Faith wrote:
so I can handle these temporary fog-clearings. I feel (felt) so clueless and helpless talking to him tonight.<hr></blockquote><p>For my situation, Harley told me I was not to be in ANY Plan after divorced, altho you do know my situation is somewhat different whereas my ex kept telling me he loved and missed me, drove me nuts.<p>As far as your H and OW, my best guess is they may be be having problems and have separate living arrangements now, but that may not mean they're not still seeing one another. <p>Your H sought you out to meet some of his needs, aside from the Tax stuff. He saw things were safe between you two after the tax meeting and when he came to a crisis immediately turned to you for his emotional support. Seems OW is no longer a safe place, she probably has LB'd a bunch. Once the D was final, the obsticle of his M was no longer an issue, the fantasy starts to fade and reality is starring them in the face ... she is probably pushing for a commitment and he is running. [This is my best guess, but it feels right]<p>But Faith, the statement I quoted you on up above tells me you might want to stay in Plan B. Your H knows very well what it would take to recover, he knows all contact with any OW needs to end first and foremost, he's not ready to give that up entirely. And having contact with him is not in your best interest. He has work to do on himself. Things to figure out, he needs to lean on himself for answers, not anyone else. It's painful but it is growth, and hopefully he'll learn from it. <p>But regardless, you need to try your best to not care what THEY do (I need to follow my own advice ... lol) It's very difficult to sever these ties we have with them. It's an ongoing daily effort, and when there is contact you start all over again. It's similar to the WS trying to sever all contact with the OP, every time there is contact you're back to square one emotionally.<p>If you really are at a quandry about what to do (Plan A or B), how about a session with Harley? <p>I feel for you, Honey. Really do. You've done so good, made real strides in rebuilding and starting new just for you. You've been kind and respectful of your H even in the face of his betrayal, that says so much about you and your incredibly strong character. I've admired you for your courage in moving forward because I have struggled with it, even now. <p>Do some more thinking on this and consider the session with Harley, Faith. And in the meantime I'm sure you'll receive responses from members who have been there. <p>Know I'm thinking of you. I really am.<p>Love,
Jo<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

ok, here's a quick view of what I'm "hearing" from all of you right now. I'll stil be processing all this, and I want to respond in more detail to some of you later. <p>Definitely don't expect anything or get my hopes up.<p>Let him figure out most of his own mess he got himself into.<p>Yes, I'm open to re-marriage for a little while longer, but he will have to start all over and "win me". <p>I feel that I am most comfortable with a VERY limited - strict - boundaries - Plan A. I don't know that you could really call it Plan A or Plan B. I won't be available for every phone call. But I can't see myself shutting him out 100% completely. <p>Yes, I've thought of calling Steve Harley. If this intermittent fog movement seems to go any further, I will do that.<p>Thank you all for helping me build my strength. <p>There may not be any more to this. But I wanted to feel more confident about how to handle it if I do get more calls. <p>If you have anymore thoughts... please keep them coming. I have lots to do today, but I want to come back and respond to more of your specific thoughts.

Hmmm... My immediate reaction to the "we moved" comment was that they moved out--meaning, apart from each other... and are no longer living together. That's what it sounds like to me?<p>oooo! You were SO GOOD not to ask. I don't think I could have helped myself, but I agree that you should protect your emotions and keep moving forward in your Plan B--to protect your love left...<p>I don't think he would have called you if OW was right there lending an ear for him to talk about his problems, anyway?! Ya know?

faith just a thought, since you are divorced he is just another guy, not your H....and since apparently he has a relationship with the ow (and I assume some sort of exclusivity) then he is essentially trying to have a emotional (and I would bet physical if you let him) affair with you, cheating on his new partner...why would you want a man like that anyways? IMO you owe it to yourself to take the time to free yourself of his influence, and the natural inertia people have to leave relationships, and then date and compare other men....in the meantime IF your H does his work, LEAVES the ow, and does NOT get into any other relationships (waits for you in other words), and then you date him, and IF you see him as the best marital choice...then maybe, just maybe it would be worth reconsidering. <p>Usually that won't happen, and if you observe his behaviour for the next year from a distance, as well as compare him to others, you will free yourself of the addiction (yep, those pesky addicitions apply no matter who the focus is on), and can make a choice that is truly good for you. The best possible way to find out the truth re this man is cut him off completely, he is not your H, you are divorced, act like it, let it go. You have nothing to lose, if he is worthy he will fight hard to change himself, and win you back (and heck we all know plan b is not really no contact, you will get feedback, just do not do ANYTHING relationtional, or marital like). If he can sustain the changes, and pursue you without ANY encouragement, stay away from other relationshipos, for a year or so, then maybe he will have proven himself...right now he is proving nothing but that he wants to have an affair with you, and implying he will dump the ow for you...EXACTLY what he did to you, why in the world would that feel good to you? It should make you very angry, and more determined to stay completely away from him, he is going about this all wrong, in a manipulative way, and you are falling for it. This isn't a game faith, winners and losers, this is life, and this man is doing everything wrong...STILL.., be thankful you are free, don't give that up, take this chance and find someone worthy, don't settle....and don't trust your emotions, they will betray you at this juncture, make a decision to go away from this, and keep to it.<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

about consolation prizes, there is no absolutely clear way to assess this, but it is a very real and common issue IMO. I see here far too often supposed recoveries that subsequently fail, or lurch along as very unsatisifying marriages...I think in many cases it is cause the relationship is a consolation one. The worst possible path to reconcilliation (IMO) is waiting for the affair to die a natural death, and the ws to run home to you, why on earth would anyone want to be chosen that way? That is nothing but settling, and a lifetime of waiting for the next time, or living with someone who is only half there, and only parking themself in the marriage cause you offer more benefits than someone else....yuck, double yuck. I suspect I would be a very bad bs, my choice would be to go with the make a decision and make it now school of thought, tough love etc. I suspect that is why in general plan a is supposed to be very short, just enough time to clear the air some, show committment by bs to their role in the marital failure (and recover from their own anger and shock), reduce tension so ws can make a decision in a non-confrontational atmosphere, and CHOOSE you...THEN apply extraordinary precuations RELIGIOUSLY, and participate ENTHUSIASTICALLY in a full range of self-discovery, change, and counselling....I rarely see that happen here. What I see here is bs waiting long periods of time, focusing on the ws instead of themselves, and waiting, waiting, waiting, for the affair to end, going through multiple false returns, etc. etc. why? Why would anyone think so little of themself that they can't imagine life without the marriage? This is extremely fertile ground for unworthy ws to remain in your lives, never really carrying their weight in the marriage. OF COURSE they are going to run back to you, why not. You are a better deal (most often) that what they left for, and you patiently wait, doormat style, for them to see the "error" (puhleeezzze) of their ways. Humans don't work like that, they come back cause you are the better deal allright, they come back for what you do for them....not for what they can do for you...and IF you keep your eyes open you will see that, but blinders seem to be the dress code of the day. Yes I know kids make this hard, but every one of you who take someone back on these terms are taking a huge risk with your life, and usually one that does not lead to much happiness....cause you are the consolation prize, and that doesn't really work.<p>It is possible to wait out the affair, and a ws actually learn something and choose you, but IMO this is very rare, it is not how humans work psychologically....instead they will just return home cause why not, it is the easiest choice, especially if you welcome the poor lost soul....boy this is worldclass manipulation....folks do not lower your standards, the ws should work and work hard and give you NO grief, no LB, no nothing, and meet your en's in a sustained, effective, enthusiastic way.... for you to even have a smidgen of hope you are actually being pursued and chosen, instead of settled for. Instead I see a lot of conflict and ws digging their heels in after a "honeymoon" period...newsflash folks, they didn't choose you, watch the behaviour, and you will see all the truth you need, do NOT listen to the baloney out of their mouths.<p>There is a small window of opportunity right after discovery for choice, if it doesn't happen, I would say in most cases it is a big mistake for the bs to reconcille, UNLESS they are willing to be settled for, not passionately chosen. Many are willing to settle for what they can get, I find that sad, but it is a free country, and maybe they figure it is the best they can do in this life, not for me to say, but they should understand what they are doing, so they can deal with the feelings that come with it.

I'm here for you too D. I'm afraid I have no advice to offer to you, and I'm sorry I wasn't around last night when you needed someone to chat with. (I found it rather slow too, and logged off! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>Feel free to email me at 4topie25@rogers.com if there is anything you want to talk about that you'd rather not post on here.... or if you just want another email pal! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

ok, well I haven't heard from him again, but I truly expect something else to happen - whether it be 3-4 days, weeks, or months. <p>I want to try to respond to some things that catch my attention:<p>Overall, what I'm hearing is keep my distance, keep working on me and moving forward, make him work if/when he wants a relationship with me of any kind. <p>
redhat - thanks so much for your support, especially through the pain I know you're going through.<p>Orchid - thanks sis. some very lovely compliments in there. will you marry me? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] really... thank you.<p>kb - thanks so much for dropping in. A story like yours is probably not very common, but is something some of us hope for as a last resort. Good luck to you! I pray its not a false start, but a rejoining of two halves that should never have been divided. Your strength, and encourgement for me to do the same is wonderful, and I very much appreciate it.<p>snl:
snl - Why do you want to consider recoverying with someone who used you? <p>F1 - Because I believe people make mistakes, get off track, and do things beyond their "normal" selves. This, we so affectionately call "fog". That he chased something he thought he wanted - completely changed himself - his values - his priorities - broke promises to himself, me, his family, and to God... and that when he decides he made a mistake, and wants his "life" back the way it was (we/he had a good life) - the way he worked hard to get, that I believe he (we) can recover from these mistakes, and do the work to ensure it doesn't happen again. This is why I'm at MB, and believe in the MB principles, because, basically, I believe people make mistakes, and can redeem themselves, patch things up, and build a new BETTER life together.<p>snl - The only reason he is doing this is cause peole, (humans) really hate"losing" things....he is pursuing you just because (and that is pursuit...<p>F1 - Possibly, yes, you may be right. We see that a lot around here... I believe that's a common reason WS's return home. a big reason for false recoveries. But can't that be ENOUGH of a reason to get the WS home, and THEN the work is put in to make it real? <p>snl - And even if his affair dies, so what...you want to be the consolation prize in someones life? <p>F1 - No. I really don't. I gave him plenty of time to be sure he didn't want me. And I agree that he will have to prove all over again that he chooses me, and that he will need to learn how we can be sure it never happens again. BUT, I still have love for him. We had a great life together for 11 years. And as I said above, I believe a WS can make a mistake, then put the work and action in to "earn" that prize back. So, in that regards... he would have to earn me, so I wouldn't be a consolation prize. k?<p>Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with much of what you say. I was just answering your questions - best I could. <p>Someone (WAT) - Such wisdom. thank you. As I mentioned already, I feel that I will be most comfortable mostly in a Plan B, but I can't see myself shutting him out completely. If I get another phone call like I did Fri. nite, I will most likely handle it the same way. Not "rescuing", but not ignoring him, or cold or uncaring either. I felt that I was sort of in the middle of those extremes. And this thread is giving me strength to respond that way (tough love) if it occurs again. And you are probably right about the kids being a bit of glue in the relationship. The only "glue" we have is incredibly fun years, huge struggles that we overcame together, and our dreams for the future. And that may not be worth it to him.<p>hoping4 - thanks to you as well. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You said, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You CAN'T be there for him right now...don't you dare let him take you on that rollercoaster with him. YOU set boundries that YOU need. He will just have to live with that. Honestly...it's the best thing you could ever do for him...and yourself. Next time he needs someone to lean on...don't be available or cut him short because you're just heading out. You can be empathetic and still keep some emotional distance<hr></blockquote><p>I guess you are really right. This seems to be right in line with what others are saying. BUT, what if I'm the only one that can be here for him? ok ok .. he's a big boy, and he should be able to handle just about anything that he's going through. He chose to live life without me.<p>well, I'm pooped. I want to continue responding to the rest of you. Thank you sooooooooo much for the support. I feel like I know all this, but I feel like I'm in my own kind of fog, and just need you all to help me walk through it.<p>(JD, I hear ya friend. I'm gonna respond to ya I promise... yes, your thoughts are a little less of a Plan B kind of answer... and I appreciate it, and will respond)<p>g'night.... see ya'll Sunday sometime...<p>hugggggsssss to everyone<p>[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Faith - seems you've processed the suggestions well. I'm confident you'll make the best conclusion for Faith - which could be different for everyone in your situation.<p>While cutting the grass yesterday, I had this thought (I do my best thinking cutting the grass) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) What did you say in your Plan B letter as to your conditions for further association? I'll bet it was along the lines of him needing to decide that he wants to work on the marriage (let's call it a relationship or friendship at this point) and be willing to sever all contact with OW. Right?<p>Why not stick to this? <p>Perhaps a position for you should be to see how often and frequently he has these episodes - handling them as you have described above - and when you get to an uncomfortable threshold tell him to re-read the Plan B letter, or write a Plan D letter, switching the terminology to "friendship" rather than "marriage."

I wanted to respond some more here...<p>JD (and sad dad) - Why am I here? I came here to learn about myself, learn about affairs, and have the best possible chance of saving my marriage possible. I'm still here to offer help and support where I can, to continue learning about myself and affairs (it hasn't even been a year since d-day), and to continue receiving support post-divorce - whether that be for myself, or how to handle if and when there's more contact from XH. Yes, I still love him. Yes, I can still see us together. (not like he is now - he's got some serious work to do) Yes, you and sad dad are right - just because we completed the D already, doesn't mean I'm out of love - doesn't mean the door is closed. To me - divorce is sort of a formality. Some couples remain in limbo-land MARRIED for 2-3 years. The difference NOW, is just like snl pointed out - XH is just like any other man out there - a potential BF, potential future H. Technically, he no longer holds any higher level of preference for me than any other. BUT, he really does!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I know him better than any other man - I know his family, his habits, his dreams, etc. But another lucky guy may come along and win the privelege of being the next Mrs. Faith1 before XH wakes up and applies for the position!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (don't worry... I won't be rushing into this any time soon!!!)<p>resilient - thanks so much for the encouragement. I admire YOU so much for your strength, generosity, vision and understanding. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Question for you: if Steve H told you to not be in any Plan, then what do you do? No contact? Be friends? Just whatever feels comfortable for you?<p>You said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He saw things were safe between you two after the tax meeting and when he came to a crisis immediately turned to you for his emotional support. Seems OW is no longer a safe place, she probably has LB'd a bunch. Once the D was final, the obsticle of his M was no longer an issue, the fantasy starts to fade and reality is starring them in the face ... she is probably pushing for a commitment and he is running. <hr></blockquote><p>This is HIGHLY possible. He's had a funny-looking silver ring on his wedding-ring finger the day we signed the D papers AND tax night Thursday night. hmmph! I bet she's been pushing for a commitment so they can quit "living in sin" [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Then you said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But regardless, you need to try your best to not care what THEY do (I need to follow my own advice ... lol) It's very difficult to sever these ties we have with them. It's an ongoing daily effort, and when there is contact you start all over again. It's similar to the WS trying to sever all contact with the OP, every time there is contact you're back to square one emotionally. <hr></blockquote><p>ahhh... thank you sis. You're right. Keep reminding me, k? <p>
bdtd - THANKS! The whole time I was thinking, "so where's wonderful Mel-pooh? You can't cry on her shoulder???" [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>snl - ahemmm... some of your thoughts irritate me (but you know that already *smile*), but mostly, I feel strength and confidence reading the stuff you posted to me. thanks!<p>WAT - haha! I would probably do some good thinking while cutting the grass also - if I could get the darn lawn mower started!! (will duct tape help??? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) Yes, my Plan B letter said that he would need to sever his "relationship with OW before we could talk of a future relationship (friendship or marriage)". You're right I should stick to that. <p>What do you think about JD's point:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>so how will you know if he has made any changes? How will you know if he has climbed out of the gutter? Answer= you won't. That is, not if you stay in Plan B. <hr></blockquote><p>If he's serious about changes - serious about pursuing a friendship (or more), he'll find a way to show me that? I guess this is sort of like "how does Plan B end?" <making note to self: I need to go find that old thread.... > What if he doesn't remember the Plan B letter? What if he thinks I'm done with him? What if he's too scared to attempt anything because he's assuming I'm gone? Logically, I know the answers. Emotionally, I can't help but wonder these things. <p>Perhaps, your next suggestion is the only thing I need - -><p>WAT said: "Perhaps a position for you should be to see how often and frequently he has these episodes - handling them as you have described above - and when you get to an uncomfortable threshold tell him to re-read the Plan B letter, "<p>yes. ok. I agree. I plan on planning to follow that plan. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <calming down now... getting a grip><p>Thanks again everyone. PLEASE let me know if you have any other thoughts. If anything, THANK you for letting me sort through all this and getting my thoughts out here.<p>[ April 14, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Dear Faith,<p>As usual you are doing well. I only hope your H can see what a treasure U R! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I agree with WAT. When you are ready, re-read your plan B letter. <p>You've got all your oars in the water, you just need some reassurance. <p>L.