Here is an update/vent.<p>Thursday morning, while H and I were on the way to work, I started crying. For no reason according to H. (I do this often, I will be perfectly OK, then his previous actions drift into my mind, and I start to cry) Anyway, to make a long story short, H blamed me for his actions. He said I have never been affectionate enough for him. He said he has always felt unwanted by me. This is why he actively seeked out OW for emotional fufillment on the chat line. <p>I know that I am not the most affectionate person. I never have been. It was not displayed in my home growing up. (In fact I had never known my parents to even share a bed) Given the fact that I have never been this way, yet he chose to marry me anyway, does that excuse his behavior?? Of course I know the answer is no, but it makes me wonder. Am I really to blame for this.<p>I had mulling this over for a couple days, and last night it all came to a head. Yes, I agreed with H that this is something I am lacking, but I did not deserve his betrayal. I asked him how he could have done this to me a second time, without even giving me a chance to get over the first. He said it was because he felt unwanted, unloved, and unattractive. <p>He showed a little remorse for his action, and how they have affected me. <p>The pain he has caused me has completely overwhelmed me. Not only have a lost my mental stability, but its now affecting my physical health. I have lost over 20 lbs, and now my hair is starting to fall out. <p>I have my first appointment with a therapist this afternoon. I am very very apprehensive. I think this man may peer into my phyche, and say Holy SH*t, you are a mess! <p>Directly after my appointment with the therapist, we have to go to our Nephews 5th b-day party. All his family will be there. I hope I'm not too much of a mess when I arrive. Actually, even if I am, I am extremely good at covering it up for others. (Just not my H) Lately I think I should have been an actress. I could have won a dozen Academy Awards by now! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks for listening.<p>Susan

Your marriage may have problems. You may have issues with showing effection. None of this has anything to do with his A. His A is his alone he had no charactor,no morals lots of thinking only of himself. He wasn't even thinking of her and the consequences of his actions to her. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, IT IS NEVER THE BS'S FAULT. HE IS THE ONE TO BLAME NOT YOU.
Hope that helps
passmeby

Thank you Passmeby. <p>Yes that does help me. I know you are right. But still, I cant help thinking that if I had been more affectionate, given sex more etc., that none of this would have happened.<p>I have been beating myself up over this. I feel like a total fool. One, for realizing too late, and possibly could have avoided this whole mess. Two, for believing in him, and giving him a second chance, only for him to destroy me again. <p>I used to be a very strong person. I knew what I wanted and nothing would make me waiver from that. Please dont think that I was pushy or aggresive, I mean that I was very self confident in my desicions. Now, since this revelation, I am a weak blubbering mess. One minute I am Ok (not great but OK) the next I burst into tears. How could I let a man do this to me?

Hey Sweetie (I feel affectionate towards you because I was new here when you came on the boards, and then you were AWOL, and I've prayed for you and so, I like you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I hope you don't mind)<p>I think you are strong and smart and very likely beautiful.<p>If you were doing all the things you were doing when you got married, then I think you are not to blame.<p>If however, he asked you when you were dating to be more affectionate then you have a small part.<p>If you were doing more loving things while dating, then you have a greater part in his unhappiness.<p>Notice I said "his unhappiness." I never said you had any part in his affair. That was certainly his choice.<p>Kind of like leaving your car door unlocked. Perhaps it was an oversight or a bad habit. But are to blame for someone stealing something out of it, or doing damage to it, or even stealing it? No. You had a small part, but you are not to blame.<p>HTH also,<p>Hoping

Hoping 4 Future. You have just made my day! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thank you. (blush)<p>Yes you are right, I am beautiful! (blush blush blush) Just kidding, I'm OK, nothing special. <p>The thing is that when we were dating, esp for the first couple months, we couldnt keep our hands off each other, and not always in a sexual way. But after the inital passion died down a bit, our relationship became more verbal and less physicial. I think this is normal, right? <p>While I was pregnant, and shortly after giving birth, the affection disappeared. Not only on my part but on his. I chalked this up to being so busy with a newborn. I should have realized that this was a huge emotional need for him, and corrected it sooner.

Just thought I would add that while I was posting this, my H was reading it. This is a first. He hates the fact that I come here. He said talking to strangers is not helping me. He said this doesnt replace therapy and I completely agreed. Thats why I am seeing a therapist this afternoon.<p>I suggested to him again to read my posts and the articles on the site and he flat out refused. And walked away. <p>He says he knows he needs help. He tried to take his life before (in Nov). he blames me for that. But for him to admit he needs help is a bit of a breakthrough right? Now lets see if he follows through with it, or just goes with the flow that is his character.<p>Susan

scared...But still, I cant help thinking that if I had been more affectionate, given sex more etc., that none of this would have happened.<p>snl...It is possible that is true, but it is also true it is irrelevant now. Getting stuck on woulda/coulda/shouldas is 3/4 of what is wrong in resolving dysfunctional relationships. All ANYONE can do is evaluate themself, make such changes as they WANT to, and let the chips fall where they will. Your life does not begin or end with your marital status, you will be ok if you want to be, and therein lies your quandary I think, and why you have lost yourself. When you accept you don't have to me married, that life will still go on, and go on well....then you can heal...your marriage will survive or not on it's own merits, but you will be in control of your life and can make appropriate decisions...but first LET GO, the old marriage is dead, you are dating now, and a new marriage will not occur until you heal, and decide your H is worthy, (as in fit, and in trust)...for starters he has 2 strikes against him since he seems to view his actions as a consequence of your behaviour absolving him of responsibility...if he this is how he intends to conduct his life, then you need to leave, healthy marriage cannot exist in that enviroment. But in part (judging by your posting) you are enabling this behaviour. Also keep in mind this is how controllers work, keeping you emotionally off-balance in a dependentcy based marriage...you may be dealing with this too. Good luck.

scared-
I am so sorry for your pain sweetie. You are a such a great person and you don't deserve this...<p>guess what? I am involved with a single guy!!

I don't agree that if you would have then he would have... If he wasn't happy then it was his responsibility to tell you so, not to fulfill the need externally of the marriage. It takes 2 to let the marriage get stale, he holds just as much responsibility in that as you ever would. The A is NOT your responsibility...that was 100% his choice, 100% his mistake, 100% about HIM. The old "it's YOUR fault I did this" routine is common...it's one more way for him to deny that he has any problems. He's the one that needs the counseling. As far as showing affection...that's gotta be tough. If it's hard for you to give and it's a primary need of his...in order to work you've both got to reach a middle ground. I have a sis-in-law who I don't believe I've ever seen hug or kiss her child, let alone her husband. They seem so cold towards each other all the time. I honestly don't think she even sees it as a problem. I see hurt in her little girls eyes when my son runs up for a quick cuddle. Even if it feels unnatural to you, it's important to atleast try. Have you ever seen the book "The Five Love Languanges"? There is another one for children called the Five Love Languages for children. It talks about how all 5 are important for a child to grow up feeling secure and self-confident. If affection wasn't shown in your family, that might be a reason why you don't feel self-confident now. I hope your session goes well!

Hi Susan,<p>I too am not an affectionate person by nature. I struggle with it daily. I was not given affection as a child, my mother died when I was 5 and my father grieved so much that he pretty much forgot about my needs.<p>I have two daughters and fight with the desire to run away when they want hugs and cuddle time. I am the same way with my husband (we are now separated). They all three have a strong need for it and it is not even on my list, but I do my best to meet that need. <p>The recommendation, 5 Love Languages, is a good one. If you can, please read it. It has helped me. Obviously, I need to read it again as I am now alone. I don't know if you feel the same way, but since affection is so far removed from my psyche, I have a hard time understanding that need in others. However, just as my number one need is FS, and I'm married to a man who doesn't understand that as he feels like "God will provide no matter what",and I want him to meet that need, I need to reciprocate. <p>I'm sorry, I'm rambling. Just know that while you may have things that you have done to make your husband feel unhappy, you are in NO way responsible for his actions.<p>Doc

scared,<p>I think it's all too common for BS's to blame themselves for their WS's unhappiness, and in many cases they are responsible for a good part of it. I did it. Took on way too much blame. I'm not the perfect husband and I have my faults. I did things that contributed to my W's unhappiness and I've taken great strides to insure that won't happen again. But it was my W's decision to keep her unhappiness from me and to confide in the OM about it. SHE chose to turn to him and get that whole thing started. I take my share of responsibilty for the problems in our marriage, but I take NO responsibility for her A. That was her choice and she'll have to live with it. I belive the A is over, but we are getting divorced nonetheless. That too was HER choice and she will have to deal with the consequences. Without going into details, she is having a hard time dealing with that. Make the changes in yourself that you feel are necessary, but NEVER blame yourself for the choices he made.<p>sad dad

Dear Scared,
First, it's not your fault - even if you didn't meet his EN for physical affection as much as he needed. He had a choice. He could have tried to communicate with you to talk about how he needed more from you - he could have tried to do things that would EVOKE a response in you, to get what he needed out of you. <p>You had a new baby - I know what this is like - I have 2 boys - I live far away from all of my family so no-one around to help me, I'm an older mother (1st baby at 36, and 2nd at 39 - this is very important in the fatigue factor). My H is a prof musician, and worked almost 7 days a week, including evenings. I came home from the hospital with no. 2 on a Sat and my H went back to work full-time on Monday AM, leaving me home alone w/ newborn and a 3-yr old - he also had gall bladder trouble, so I had to cook him fat-free food every meal! I can tell you - I had NO energy left for sex, and yes, we had problems. But neither did my H do anything to either help me, or to relieve my stress. It was always him, him, him - he loved the babies, but couldn't get his head around the fact that if mom was tired and stressed, it was part of his job to TAKE CARE OF ME as well, so I could do my job well. For me, this meant taking me out of the house, away from the babies, to be a grown-up again - to go see a movie, or have dinner together, or a night out with friends. This never happened. The last time he took me out for dinner was 9 years ago, when our first son was 4 months old - after that - I was Mom, and he just came home and expected Mom do provide for him as well as his kids. so that's a big factor in my story - I didn't meet his EN's - for affection, sex, attention, and admiration - but he didn't make it possible for me to do that. You can say I should have tried harder - that's probably true - but it was not ALL up to me. He wasn't a baby - he was a man - he should have cherished me and seen that I needed cherishing, as much as the babies. He had a choice about what kind of husband he was going to be - a Giver or a Taker. He chose to be a Taker, and when he didn't get what he wanted, he chose to try to get what he wanted out of someone else.<p>What I'm saying here is that your H had the same choice - pregnant and new baby - of course you're not going to be able to fulfill all of his needs! Is he another baby or is he a man? Being a man means being there for your wife when she needs you. And at no time does a wife need a stable husband more than when she has a baby.<p>OK, so you are dealing with the added problem of feeling that you are not as physically affectionate as he needs you to be. I sympathize with everyone on this board who talks about not getting affection when they were kids, so its hard to show it now to others. My own mother was like this - says she can't remember ever being hugged by her parents - in the 1920's and 30's) - when she married my dad, she had a hard time getting hugged by all of his family all the time, who are all very warm. She said that she made a conscious decision to be different with her own children, and she succeeded - she is kind, loving and affectionate - but she says that she had to try hard to show this love - she had to learn the vocabulary of showing affection later in life. I know that this is possible. There's nothing WRONG with you if you are this way, and you were raised like that - but you can change yourself, if you try - with babysteps first.<p>My H has the same problem - HE is the one raised in the aloof family and he has problems showing PA to me, which is one of my EN's. I know he can change if he tries. Harley has a whole article on this - written for husbands mostly - but relevant I think for women as well. <p>Your H certainly needs counselling - you said he tried to take his own life in Nov - what happened with that, and did he get any after-care, anyone try to get him into therapy after that? He is trying to shift the responsibility for his own choices in life on to you. Don't buy into this. <p>My H has said exactly the same things as your H - that its all my fault - that I'm sick - that he is doing nothing wrong - that I'm sick for imagining things that aren't happening - that it's my temper that has caused all this.<p>So - I have to take responsibility for how I express myself - and for LB'ing - exploding is not a constructive way to deal with problems - but the funny thing is - I realized that 2 years ago, and had eliminated that from myself - and you know what? That was when he started looking elsewhere - when everything was going good. So he has problems, too - it's really not "all me". <p>It took me finally asking him to leave, and him realizing I was serious before he admitted that he had a problem, and made the step to seek counselling. Now he has done that, and we are trying to heal. We are both trying, and I think we could, so I have hope again.<p>Don't let your husband's problems destroy you. Your child needs you. Go on AD's if you have to - believe me, the stress you are under does have an impact. I took Prozac for 3 yrs after birth of no. 2 and am so glad I did - my son no. 2 had a happier toddlerhood and a mother who could cope - son no. 1 had a mom who was stressed out - son no. 1 is fine now, doing really well in school (age 9) and very sociable, but I think he would have been happier had I had Prozac while he was small as well. (I had Post Natal Depression - diagnosed).<p>I also think you should go to your doctor and discuss the stress you are under with him - let people try to help you. Get your support network in place. You need to start stringing up your safety net. Please. ((((((big hug for you))))))).<p>Odile

Thank you to everyone for your responses.<p>SNL-You are right. We should be "dating" now. The therapist suggested exactly the same thing to me yesterday. He said start dating again, and forget (try) the resentment. I am still not sure how to get over the resentment part, but Im sure that will be another session in itself.<p>H4F & MD-Affection was shown to me when growing up. Esp from my mother. But I never witnessed it between my parents. I dont think they we really in love with each other. My father passed away in 1984, I was 14 yrs old. Maybe if he lived, they would have been divorced by now. Who knows?
I am trying now to make a conscious effort to show affection to my H from now on. It still terrifies me that he can hurt me again if I get too close to him. It is a chance I'll take for now. We want the M to work, so if I get hurt by him again, at least I would know that I gave it my all. <p>Odile & SD- I do know that his EA's were not my fault. They were 100% his desecion and bad judgment. However, I do think that if I had been more loving and he a better communicator, it never would have happened. <p>I mentioned that H had read this post. He got so pi%sed off about the affair business. He said he never had an A. Claims what he did we in no way A's. I tried to explain to him that yes, they are. Just bcuz you arent in bed with someone, the lies, betrayal and cover ups amount to the same damage. He completely disagrees. I asked him again to read the concepts of this site. He says no way. He thinks we are all a bunch of crackpots, and hates that I come here. I realize he is not as deep down into this as I am. And I hope that one day he will be. It is his character to sweep things under the rug, and avoid the problem. You know, out of sight, out of mind. This is why I am terrified that he may betray me again. <p>I cannot change his character. It is ingrained into him. HIs family are all avoiders as well. I do not want to change him, I love him, but a personality flaw can me mended right? <p>Susie

scared...I cannot change his character. It is ingrained into him. <p>snl...True. But how he expresses his character can be changed some, but only by him, and with great effort.<p>scared..HIs family are all avoiders as well. I do not want to change him, I love him, but a personality flaw can me mended right? <p>snl...This is way more than a flaw, and you are traveling the road of co-dependentcy if you enable this by thinking you love him......you can care about him, but you cannot have marital love unless nurturing flows both ways, and that is where most co-dependents get lost, they love the could be's, and ignore the realities....if someone is not healthy for your well-being you should leave, no one has to be married, nor are any of us designated to make someone life better, you have to pull your weight or it is not love. <p>No, most personality disorders cannot be fixed. If it can it certainly does not start with anger and denial such as your H epresses, it starts with a clear committment to change, followed by appropriate action....if you don't see this scared, then make peace with how your life is going to be, you will never feel safe, never be able to be vulnerable, and there will never be love and marital intimacy....it will be a contractural marriage. MB also does not work on folks with personality disorders, it just empowers them more to use you, you need books on co-dependentcy, boundaries, tough love...first... but even before that you must decide whether you are ok in your own skin, and can live without this man if need be. Good luck

SNL. Thanks for your reply. <p>I dont think my H has a personality disorder. Just a personalilty flaw. We all have them. Someone may be too pushy, or too wimpy, too loud, or too quiet etc. <p>My H is a "runner"..he cant deal with confrontation at all. He will avoid it at all costs. This was never a problem in our R bcuz, if a situation required confronting, I would deal with it. I am not saying he has no backbone, its not that bad.<p>My H is very nuturing if he gets it in return. Seeing as how I neglected him in the affection catergory, his affection for me dropped. I can understand this. Please dont interpret as me saying that his EA's were my fault. I realize completely that these were his errors. But I am partially to blame for the reason they happened. <p>I am only coming to terms with this now, in the last few days. I wish I had realized sooner...it makes me sad.<p>S