for all who are familiar with the title phrase, I FINALLY HAD IT AND SHOT THE ELEPHANT AND THE REST OF THE DAMN JUNGLE TOO!!<p>after the emotionally draining day i had at my brothers ordination yesterday, i just didnt have it in me to ACT happy when husband came home. i have been hiding my pain because husband is emotionally closed off and couldnt deal with it.<p>after we put son to bed he asked "how was your day?', innocent enough question, i usually tell him, "my day was ok how about you?" and act as if im not dying inside every moment. well i just didnt have it in me last night so i decided to tell him exactly how my day was-"Well hon, i woke up and vomitted a few times, as usual. then moved on to diareah. managed to get myself out of the house on time, but started to have pannick attacks shortly after. they usually start right about the time i pass the hotel the two of you used and progressivly get worse from there. i was a mess by the time i had to pick up family for church, but of course couldnt show it because everyone does not know. got there ok but when it started i was so worried about breaking down again i had another panick attack. got through all of it and got out of there at a relatively early time and cried and shook all the way home. had to pass the damn hotel again so that pissed me off too. when i got here son was acting up and disobeying me so he got punished and here i am."<p>by the time i looked up he was grey! i then looked at him and said, lets go into livingroom-i think this is gonna be a long conversation. he told me that he had no idea that i went through this everyday. he thought because i said day was ok that i was ok. well i told him no i wasnt. i then told him the only peace i get from it all is when i sleep, because luckily it hasnt invaded my dreams yet. he was devastated. i saw the opening and went for it. i sometimes have trouble keeping my mouth shut, but i figured i was at the end anyway. i looked him squarely in the eyes and told him he asked for three months to get new job worked out before he worked on us, this was 1 week after finding out about affair. i had agreed. i told him last night its been 4 months and he was either gonna put us first or our conversation was gonna change. i told him directly-its time to **** or get off the pot. i in no uncertain terms told him to step up!! to be continued...

he was floored- he never saw it coming. he told me -ok since you pushed the envelope, lets talk. i told him-i didnt push the envelope dear, i just shot the elephant!!(he allready thinks i am a little nuts so...) we started talking and talked for 5 hours. he told me he had no idea the amount of pain i was in and he felt the last 4 months have benn a lie. he said it very sorrowfully. i told him sweetly, that that is ok, i sometimes feel the last ten years are a lie. that drove my point home. i explained that i kept it in because he never wanted to deal with it and i was trying not to be the cause of his hurt. i was honestly worried about him. that made him feel guilty and i could see it. i saw so much emotion in him last night. everything i had been waiting for.<p>he opened up about his childhood, his dad, his dads death, what he went through and so much more. he finally let me in. after 10 years i finally met the man i married. i love him.<p>then my questions started. i asked him about counseling-hes still not comfortable with that. heck it took him ten years to open up to me- i dont think we have enough money to finance how long it will take with a counselor. i asked about him coming here- hes afraid-he has a real problem telling people his stuff. i will keep trying on both.<p>i also asked if there has been any contact? he said no. i then asked if he has seen her-he said yes. they still work for same co. in different locations. she sometimes has to go to his. i asked about that and how it mad him feel. he says he has no feelings for her-he looks at her and thinks-What the heck was i thinking?????? his exact words.<p>i then got to the biggie-our ten years together. i asked him if there was anything else i needed to know. i allready knew the answer and i swear if he lied to me i was gonna loose it. he didnt. he told me about strip cubs he and friends went to and that he was havig lap dances.alot he had been lying to me since 1999. i didntnow it wentack that f he sid that since i always said i didnt hve a roblem going to the clubs he thought it as ok

sorry my computer just flipped out. i have to shut down, ill be right back.

Thank goodness! You did good. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have to confess to some chuckling during the narrative of your day--not because it was funny, but because DUH!!!!!! No sh**, Sherlock. What on earth else would it feel like to have your insides torn out and shredded to pieces and your H being clueless and running from what he did for so long!?! Why would a WS think any differently? Do they think THEY would just take it in stride like nothing ever happened if WE did it? I guess denial is a powerful thing.<p>Hope you are able to start feeling better, Nikko.

ok i am back, now on with the story- so i found out he had been lying about the clubs since 1999. he would go there after work with friends. have lap dances and thought it was ok because i had at one time told him i had no problem with the clubs. i then told him i felt that way because he never went-except once in a blue moon for batchelour party. i didnt have a problem with it because i had no idea how much he went and that another female was rubbing her body all over him. he still persisted with the i made him think it was ok. so i then informed him i really wished i knew it was ok, because i turned down many invitations to go to such clubs for women, and if i knew it was ok to have a really great looking, hard bodied guy rubbing his penis all over me and getting me excited to the point that i wanted him, would have been a piece of information i would have liked to have! i thought he was gonna get physically ill. it finally hit home-he got the mental picture-he didnt like it. i then informed him it was ok-i picture that all the time. and just think-yours is only fake-mine is real!!(I was on a roll) he then changed his mind about what he though was ok.<p>we then tried to have a conversation about bounderies. i simply stated-if you wouldnt do it or say it with me standing right next to you its probably disrespectful and not a good thing. he understood that. i then told him i wanted to wait to have this conversation for another time- i wasnt prepared. he made a smart comment and i simply said i never thought i would have to explain to my husband what was acceptable behavior or not. he said he didnt think that was neccesary and i said-look where we are?? duh!!<p>anyway- he opened up about everything. i saw the empathy and pain in him for the first time. i saw his hurt and remorse. he saw mine. it was incredible. i also asked about infidelity in his family- i got the shocks of shocks on that one- i wont go into it because i feel as if i would be betraying him- but use your imagination. and on top of it he knows and no-one knows he knows. he has been carrying that since 11 yrs old.<p>to end-i slept 8 hours last night-uninterupted. i woke up like a kid on x-mas morning, i was happy and excited about the day. it was great. i had a wonderfull day with my family with my husband at my side being loving and attentive.

dear conquerer- i know it was funny-there were actually quite a few times we both laughed. it felt wonderful. i have found my voice and it is now time for me. he knows that in no uncertain terms, now what he does with it is up to him. thank you for all your support and encouragement. i pray for you daily.

Nikko,<p>I am so happy for you! What a story.<p>In the book Torn Asunder it talks about telling in graphic detail what it would be like if you were having an a & secribe all the juicy sexual parts & see WS's reaction then. You did just that with the strip club routine. I love it.<p>What a break though!<p>Just curious - How long ago did his Dad die? did he have trouble coping after that?<p>What have you done with the elephant that you shot? And the rest of the jungle? lol [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

dear wgtt-thank you so much for the response. i plan on slowly, lovingly, supportively and meticiously dissecting the heck out of the elephant!!! slowly with no pushing!!<p>as far as his dad- he died when husband was 8. very dysfunctional family. dad drank, all his siblings show signs of the abuse, but husband never did. i assumed dad had stopped and the alcoholism hadnt touched him. this is all coming to lite now. dad hadnt stopped, without detail it caused his death, husband never said goodbye, chose not to go to funeral and is harbouring that guilt all these years. there's a lot more but you get it.....<p>anyway i asked, what are you waiting for to say goodbye??? this may sound strange, but i have allways felt his dad with us. i normally do not believe in that stuff, but some very weird things have happened-the biggest being when our son was born, keep in mind his dad was never spoken of, i immediately started to call him buubie. believe me i am not a buubie kind of person, i dont know where i got it, it just fit. i found out years later that was his dad nickname. i was floored. plus you could interchange the two of them-they are identical. people have seen baby pics of his dad and my son-exact, not one difference!<p>anyway-any other ?- just ask-still feeling wonderfull.

Good job, Nikko - a trophy elephant. There's nothing I can suggest that you probably don't already know. Just savor this moment and get ready to work.<p>Good luck,

dear wat- i have been ready to work for awhile, hopefully husband is up to the task now. i believe he is. i want you to know your input and caring has helped me immensely, and all you others. i have found my voice and my strength. i know it wont be easy, but i also know i will be ok. hopefully i can help my husband heal, and he help me.<p>i did make one mistake though-he asked what he had to do-i originally told him he was gonna have to do it on his own, so i believed it came from him. i didnt want to feel it was scripted and insincere. i have since rethought this. i dont believe it wont be insincere if i tell him what to do, he still has to do it. the proof will come in his actions. so i appologized last nite and told him "you asked me for help and i turned you down, i am sorry. i will help you in anyway i can. you will then have to do it and the proof will come then."<p>i am feeling so great.

Nikko--<p>WAT's right, get ready to work...<p>But now you can begin work with a much more solid foundation and without that pesky elephant around to get in the way.<p>I think you knew this was a conversation you both needed. It sounds like you handled it well. It was a very brave thing to do.<p>Don't nag him, but I really think counseling would be good for both of you. If you aren't on your own--even consider that just for YOU!<p>Good luck <p>E

dear e- i know i cant nag him but i can be supportive and firm in what i need. i do it in a loving way too. a little humor helps too.<p>just before he was getting his stuff together for work. i had pulled out my en list and the desciption of each, and the marital recovery agreement. i put them on top of his wallet. as he was getting his stuff together, with his hands full he turned to leave, the papers were still on the counter. so i lovingly picked them up and stuffed them under his arm, kissed him, told him i loved him, and he smiled and said, "this is a at home thing," refering to the papers and our situation. i lovingly said,"no, this is a 24 hour 7 day a week thing, good luck!" he smiled and kinda laughed and then took them with him. do i really believe he will look at them, no im not delusional, however i stood firm in him taking them. he got the reinforcement of my message.

nikko - I can't recall if you're working with a counselor already. If not, you may need to. Seems few succeed without one.<p>Not to burst your bubble right now, but many here can describe relapses in WSs. Don't get too overconfident, OK?<p>WAT

dear wat- not over-confident. just feeling great. i know all the hard stuff begins now. and considering all i have been through allready, i know that says alot. i have been in counseling but cant find a comp. counselour. im working on finding new one now. i also plan on contacting the harleys when income tax check comes in. husband has to make that choice on his own. it is gonna be extremely hard for him to do. i know this. <p>i guess the overconfident thing your sensing is my joy- this is HUGE breakthrough for husband. i know what it took for him to do that conversation for me. and to let me into the demons of his childhood. he has been carrying a family burden for sooooo long. now at least i know the obsticles in my path, i truely for the first time know what i am dealing with. do i believe i know everything-no. but its a beginning. do i think we will still struggle-yes. road blocks along the path-of course. im just so happy to be inside for a change. i went all day yeaterday without 1 pannick attack and only 2 bad thoughts. both were when we had to pass hotel they used. but this time i had the gumption to tell him in car- i really need you to hold my hand right now. and he did, and he knew why. felt good.

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

bump for me and all who have cared and encouraged me.

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <-----------------------> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Get H to talk to Steve Harley, it might be easier for H to talk to male and also on the phone rather than one on one.<p>Proud of you -RH-

dear redhat- thank you sooo much. ive come a long way from the sobbing babbling fool you first met, huh! you were one of the first to reply to me, you cali and orchid. ill never forget you guys. you are always in my prayers. thanks

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Nothing like honesty to open doors. Congrats!

Congratulations on the wonderful breakthrough! And don't be reluctant to help him with what he needs to do. He just unloaded a lifetime's worth of angst and emotion that he had bottled up inside, and he's undoubtedly still a bit dizzy from the purge. Right now he's probably extra-wary about slipping up and making the wrong choices or saying the wrong thing. Your guidance and assurance that he's doing what you need him to do will help both of you move ahead faster.<p>Prayers to your family for continued progress and more reasons to celebrate real soon!