I haven't posted in a while, been reading alot. WW says that I have to let her go. She says that right now she is too angry with me to stay with me. She feels a separation is what she wants. She claims that she is not talking to om or any m, she just needs time away to think things through. She has stopped going to our counseling sessions, that started last week. She also has stopped saying she loves me at the end of phone conversations and emails. When questioned about this she says that she does love me but it just isn't that black and white to her. I don't know what that means. I told her that I don't see anything good coming out of a separation, if we can't work on things together, how are we going to do it apart. I am really hurt and scared. We have 4 young children and I don't want them hurt in all of this. I did let ww know that I do love her and if she really feels she must go then I respect that. I just don't know how to get through this. It hurts so bad. I am really in love with my wife. I know I made a lot of mistakes but over the past 4 months I have really made good progress and changes. She acknowledges this changes but says that she is just really angry for the years that I treated her badly. I told her that I will keep loving her and hoping that she stays. I just feel like I'm giving up to let her go.

You can't force her to stay. Try to keep positive, keep loving her and respecting her, and let her know that you want to work things out... then let her go. If you demand she stays, she will likely see you as ignoring her feelings and being disrespecful to her desires (big LB's for her I bet).<p>The only thing I would suggest is that you not let her take the kids with her. Let her move out of the house if she wants. She should not be able to tell YOU to go away... that is not fair for you to have to take.<p>Good luck

Hopenden,
Sounds as though you and myself are in similar boats. Our Ws are feeling pressured. So, let go, release the pressure.
I find myself often doing the same things as yourself--wanting to go forward together. You are in a good position in that she (seemingly) isn't involved with another presently. But if you pressure her right now, an OM will give her a retreat to turn to.
The only advice that I can offer is the advice that I give almost all here, educate yourself more and learn to stand on your own two feet. Make Plan A a normal routine in your life with no other pressures. Then she will see a reason to turn back to you...<p>Good Luck!<p>Sweden

I realize that I will have to let her go soon. Her anger seems to be growing and it hurts to see that. All I have is such deep unconditional love for her. I don't want to hurt her by keeping the kids, but I don't feel I should lose out all together either. My wife really is a good, loving and caring mother and person. I realize that I put her through hell for many years. I am scared to death that if we separate I will lose the love of my life forever. I am going to keep working and trying. I promised myself and my oldest daughter that I will never stop trying and loving my wife.

Hi hopeden,<p>There are, of course, many possibilities... and you have little control over what's going on with your WW - whether she still has contact with OM, for example. That might help explain her lack of desire to move forward, but it could also be related to withdrawal, etc. According to your sig, it has been a while since it supposedly ended, so by now you'd hope that she'd be starting to "come back" to reality, but I guess no-one can control these timeframes.<p>I agree with the advice... speaking from my own experience, I found that basically agreeing with WW, being happy, being confident, showing her that I can move on, etc. - all have taken pressure off of her, and have made her question herself - have kept her on the fence as it were. In fact, in the 2 cases where it sounded like she was serious about leaving, my approach was simply to be calm, be supportive, be understanding, and again - basically agree with her. This all had the effect of taking away her reasons to be angry - and her efforts quickly died out in both cases. (Of course, I would expect that made things not so rosy with her and OM!)<p>Some might say, "Aren't you manipulating her?" I say absolutely not! One of my life lessons is that you can't control another person - they make their own choices - good or bad. So by being angry or trying to get her to stay - only work to push her away. I have seen the true value in avoiding LB'ing - it has worked to diffuse a lot of her anger, although after a while, it can become enabling (if the infidel persists in the A).

I do try so hard not to LB but I do fail often. She does feel as though I am manipulating her or at least trying to, to get her to stay. I just wish she could see that it is true undying love and devotion for her, not manipulation. I truly want no other woman in the world, I want her, our family and our marriage forever. Again, I can't help the feeling that I will be making the biggest mistake of my life by separating, losing the true love of my life.

Still working out the details of our pending separation. I still pray everyday that it doesn't actually come to pass, but I am okay with it if it does. W told me that she is not in love with me. She needs time away and doesn't know if she will come back. These are the hardest things in the world to hear from the woman you love. We are tying to workout an acceptable arrangement with our 4 kids. I am trying my best not to lb and give her all my love and support. At times its hard because I feel so hurt and sad, but I realize that I have done alot of damage to our marriage and my wife emotionally. I have changed and am trying everyday to become a better father and husband but I guess as she says, my changes are too late. Based on what she has told me, is it realistic to even think that she will come back or even consider it?

still hoping for advice and others insight.

anyone?

hopenden:<p>"Based on what she has told me, is it realistic to even think that she will come back or even consider it?"<p>Not knowing your story all that well (like, what was it that you did to your M and her to hurt her? when did this last happen? and when did you start to change?), it's not easy to say, but if she's stayed this long beyond the end of her A, she must think there's something in your M that she wants to continue. So, in that sense, it is realistic to think she might come back to you. This could be true even if the A didn't end and she's running off to be with OM, because the fantasy life with OM will not be able to measure up to real life with her family when he has to deal with her all the time. <p>The important thing is that you're showing signs in this thread that you haven't had the time, or the knowledge, to do a good strong plan A up to now, and that you wouldn't be ready to go to plan b - that she's making that move for you. So, I guess the thing to ask yourself is whether you can do a plan A with her living elsewhere (some do), which would involve contact with her to show her your improvements (which are for YOU, by the way, not her). Whereas, if you truly go to a plan B, the thing to do would be to insist on her not contacting you except in emergencies or to arrange visitations with your kids. I think, too, that under the circumstances, the kids should stay with you. This would give you the distraction of being with your kids to keep your mind off your W and work on yourself, but it would also give her reasons to regret her decision to move out.<p>Good luck to you. This will be hard, but you can make it!

Interesting thread. I too have had similar conversations with my WW. She's still having an EA, and she said maybe we should separate. I said the same thing, that I didn't believe it would serve any purpose, but that if she felt that is what she needs to do, then by all means, I would not stop her. Of course, what SHE meant was that I should leave, not her, so it just never came up again.
However, if it does happen, it'll be as part of Plan B, then at least it might mean something and have a clear objective.

SC:<p>You made an interesting point. If WW is making the suggestion of separating, she should be the one to move out and not be with her family, not the BH. Makes the ramifications of her decision harder to contemplate. Making it "easy" for the WS to "just blow off the M" should not be what we're about, IMHO.

What details need to be worked out? If she wants to leave, she should just leave. You have no obligation to enable her in that. You can't stand in her way, but you sure don't have to be a party to it.<p>Your position should be maintaining the status quo. You be the rock of stability for the children. You stay in the family home. You be a constant for your children (and hopefully someday also your W) to depend on. Be strong, be solid. Be someone she can lean on, but have no grip on her that she can focus on escaping from instead of looking at herself and the possible consequences of her choices. Be a place of peace and comfort that she will be drawn to.<p>In short, just act the way you would if all the marital problems were resolved. Be the man you would be in that situation. Don't do anything to obscure her view of what life can be if she keeps her family intact. Let her do all the talking about separation or any other malarkey like that.<p>If you need to respond, just say you've already made all your choices and that you realize it is up to her to make her own choices. "My choice is to remain married and rebuild our marriage to be a place of caring and protection for both of us, and my hope is that you will make the same choice."

Thank you all for your insight. I believe you're right, I thought my plan a was solid but obviously not. I guess I really don't feel she has shown any remorse for what she has done since dd and thus i have always doubted her sincerity in saving the marriage. she has stated that she has tried but she is just very angry with me and needs time away. i will try to do a better plan a from a distance and hope she can see the changes. as far as the history of my part in the damage of the m. we have been together since juniors in high school. married right after high school, i was 19 and she was 18, together since. up until about 3 years ago i drank and partied with friends all the time. came home when i wanted and left when i wanted. there was also some physical abuse earlier on and that stopped approximately 5 years ago. for about the last 3 years i have cut way down on my drinking and no longer go out with my friends. if i drink it is with my wife over dinner or when we are out together. she also says that she wants to be in control for once, that is also another reason why she says she wants a separation. we have agreed that 3 of the children will move out with her and my oldest daughter will stay with me. not sure if that is the right thing to do, but i don't want to leave her all alone either. i know she loves her children very much. she has also suggested 6 months with me and 6 months with her and i could have them the first 6 months. that makes me feel like she just wants to be carefree and live it up all summer long...no h and no kids. i know that is my hurt feelings making me think that but that is what i feel. she picked up a apartment finder book yesterday and was looking through it last night. man, this really sucks and yeah i did alot of lb last night. i told her this morning and last night that i apologize for the lb. i am just hurt and say things i don't mean. i just need to learn how to keep my mouth shut and let my anger pass before speaking. any suggestions on plan a from a distance? this is going to be hard!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

bump

need help with plan a from a distance.

still seeking advice on how to handle separation. i know my w is going to move out soon. i am not sure how to handle it. i love her and have told her this daily and also that it is my hopes that she decided to stay. she says that she is tired of hearing me say i love you and that i want her to stay. that hurts. i just feel like i am beating my head against a wall. i want to do all the right things but all i seem to do is lb and make her angry. that is not my intention. need help from those that have gone through this and opinions from all. Thanks.