One year ago this month my DIL filed a surprise D petition against my S and moved out, taking their son (now 3 1/2), to another state to "find herself." Now, 12 months later, a family is dying.<p>As some of you know, she left because she had already "found herself" another man, an old HS sweetheart. S discovered the A by accident a month after she left. Then I discovered MB and told S who hopefully began Plan A long distance. DIL continued to lie and see OM. You know, the same ol' story. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In December (8 months after DIL left), S moved there because no progress was being made long distance, and GS was being affected badly. Now they are living separately; S has GS three days a week; MC twice a month; Probably no PA anymore or active EA, but they may still talk as OM lives in the same apt complex. <p>As you know, an A is often a symptom of a more basic problem. Their MC says DIL is as classic a victim of sexual abuse(step-GF)as she has ever seen with all the emotional damage that goes with it. Says DIL may even be sociopathic (ie, unable to form healthy relationships) as a result. MC says DIL has to deal with herself before she can be expected to be successful in the M. MC acknowledges that DIL is a basket case, in major denial about the truth of the real issues, hanging on by an emotional thread but not willing to face things.<p>Meanwhile, DIL remains angry, stressed, critical, and avoids S except to exchange GS. S is miserable, considering antidepressants, and inching closer and closer to giving up. He has begun to talk about telling DIL either to commit to a specific plan for rebuilding love when neither one feels anything anymore (a la Dr. Harley's plan)or, if not, to procede with her D petition which has been hanging over his head for a year.<p>S plans to make a decision based on what happens at the MC session Thursday. A year has passed. S has lost his W, his family, his home, his job, his peace of mind. DIL is still avoiding an emotionally intimate relationship with S, i.e. a committed M, but wants help with GS (S is a great dad.)and to know S is there to bale her out when she needs support. She and I communicate occasionally about GS.<p>Me, I've gone through the grieving process and accept that their M is likely not to recover. I check the MB forum every day, posting occasionally. I am grateful to have learned so much about relationships from the forum and the Harley's books. I have great respect for posters here. <p>It's too bad that wisdom is gained at such a cost. I am sad for S, GS, DIL. I feel that I have lost my future because their little family is gone. My precious GS is adrift between two homes. My gentle-natured, eternally optimistic S is a disillusioned, emotion-less shell of his former personality. My DIL is about as close to emotional collapse as one can be and continue to function. So much for her escape from her bad M into her little fantasy world. Using Orchid's
words, DIL allowed herself to believe her own lies, and those lies have almost destroyed her and her family. What a difference a year has made! <p>I hope that Spring 2003 will see my S and his little boy laying a foundation for their future. I hope that DIL will heal the wounds from her past and find peace within herself that has eluded her for so long.<p>Peace to all of you,
Estes<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Dear Estes,<p>Thanks for the update. Sorry it is not one with a happier outcome. It will though for your S and GS. Your DIL sounds like she is on a spiral. You know the funny thing is that some will not avoid that spiral at any cost. Almost like that bug drawn to the light then zap! What I mean by that is that some WS' here have had much help and even helped others but when push comes to shove they still have to go out there and 'fall down'. <p>They often take their family with them. Your son though is very fortunate to have you as a great supporter. Not all have their family's backing. It is soo encouraging to see you here helping us all out. I want to adopt U but I think you are closer to being my sister instead of my mom (age wise)!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Please let your S know that we are pulling for his persona recovery. Your DIL's recovery will come when she is ready. He must recover despite her status. It is what he and his son needs. I understand about being only a shell, empty shell's don't live. Breathe back life into his soul and family. He can do this even if she is not with them. Many fathers here are doing just that. <p>Many hugs to you and your family,
L.

Thanks Orchid for your kind reply. I appreciate your inquiring about us.<p>BTW, I will gladly be your adopted mom, sister, friend - whatever. I'm flexible! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>FYI, I am an ancient 56. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] , but still tough enough to engage in an intellectual battle with 100-plus gifted 8th graders every day. <p>Thanks for the good you do here, Orchid.<p>Estes

Estes,<p>Just want to echo Orchid if I may. Your S and GS are so very lucky to have your love and support, they will recover.<p>Your insight and advice to others here is so very valuable, we do appreciate it!!<p>The 8th graders keep you young I am sure!!<p>God's Blessings to you,
Dawn [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Estes.. I was actually wondering about you yesterday..<p>It's already been said well by Orchid and Daybreak..so I'll echo..<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Just want to echo Orchid if I may. Your S and GS are so very lucky to have your love and support, they will recover.<p>Your insight and advice to others here is so very valuable, we do appreciate it!!<p>The 8th graders keep you young I am sure!!<p>God's Blessings to you,<hr></blockquote><p>I believe better things are ahead.

Dawn, I read your anniversary posts. And I am sorry about your friend's illness. Maybe this time next year you will be on your way to rebuilding a POSITIVE future for yourself, and your H will be left to deal with the fallout from his choices. I know that we grow and change through experiences like this, but I wish it didn't have to be so tough. Hardened by fire, I guess. I'm thinking of you.<p>Take care, Estes

Estes... I have missed your wisdom... I learned much from your posts. Thanks for the update.<p>I know the patience you must have as I also teach middle schoolers (16 years)... 8th grade and GATE? what a combo [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ! (can I add Hormonally Handicapped, as well?).<p>You must have one heck of a sense of humor [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ... <p>Hugs,
Cali

Hi Family Man,<p>I see that your WW continues to cause anguish for your family. I am sorry about that. Are you able to stay in close contact with your children? Is the D actively progressing or is it just hanging there over your head like the sword of Damocles? Have you reached the point that you have lost love for your W as my S has for his? He says he has completed the mourning of the death of the original M. He knows that it is gone forever. He is still dealing with her continued lies and the betrayal of trust. As with you, because of the kids, she will always be part of his life in some way. She's just not a whole person right now and is nowhere close to wanting to be a wife. I wonder which one will take the final step first. There will probably be a custody struggle - for physical custody, not sole custody. How about you?<p>Best wishes,
Estes

Cali,<p>Yes, a sense of humor definitely helps in our line of work! Actually, I love my job, and my students enrich my life. They are so cute and vibrant. The bureaucracy is something else. This week we have four days of state-mandated achievement testing. Four days!<p>What do you teach? I teach science which I am crazy about. I live and breath critters, gardening, earthquakes, stars, storms, nature in general. Maybe we can have pen-pals next year.<p>Thanks for saying "hello." I am following your recovery and respect your posts.<p>Take care,
Estes

Estes, you are an unusual mother. To take the time and effort to learn about what is destroying your child's emotional health right now is commendable. He will make it.....so many of us have. The day will come when you will see an aliveness in him again. This pain is only for a season. I pray that he will know when to give up. I think the most debilitating thing for me is the "hanging" on now so I hope your S will be able to get out from under the oppression that sick relationships are made of. <p>May God bless your efforts and your love for your son,<p>TW

Dear Estes,
So sorry to hear about your son's and GS continued upheavel. We also have been struggling through a tough year. My H is still deep in the FOG and is being awful.<p>It is still devastating to see the destruction he caused all of us. It is terribly sad.<p>I also teach middle school--sixth grade. They have saved me this year. Keeps my mind off of things.<p>You have given wonderful advice on this forum...your son is truely blessed to have you. Take Care Pat

Hi tossed wave, <p>Me, unusual? Yes, definitely! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I tell my students the first day of school that I am weird, that that is OK, and that it's OK for them to be weird, too. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It is SOOOO hard to know when enough is enough in a M, when to give up. It is such a personal thing that NO ONE but the people involved can say when. My heart goes out to you. I hope the right path for you becomes clear soon. Take care.<p>
Hey Pat,<p>Another middle school teacher - you, Cali and I. You are 6th, I am 8th. I don't know Cali's grade. Are we crazy, or what? Actually, I have never aspired to teach any other level. I actually LIKE the little creatures.<p>One thing MB has taught me is the importance of humility when it comes to surviving an A. There is value in sacrificing ones self (at least temporarily) for the greater good of the family. It hurts more than one would believe to carry on normally and Plan A while the WS behaves so cruelly. The knowledge that MB techniques can indeed save marrages if BOTH partners eventually commit is reason for hope. You are proving your dignity and your value through your actions, as are the other BS here. <p>Love, Estes

Estes49,<p>I would have to agree w/ the MC, she needs to work through her abuse..so that she can form a healthy emotional bond..but unfortunately nobody can force her to face those memories...<p>Do you still talk to DIL? I know your hurting..but
you could be a great support system for her in her healing and giving her a role model for what a healthy relationship should be like..a mentor for her...<p>I don't remember but if I recommeded this book to you before..but it's one that helped me TREMENDOUSLY in my own healing through SA..it's called The Wounded Heart by Dr. Dan B. Allender..if you could send her a copy of it she may read it..if she's admitting to the abuse..
it means she's at least acknowledging it..and that is the 1st step..<p>I know for myself I admitted it happened for years..but never dealt with the internal damage
it caused..as I "thought" admitting it happened was dealing with it..but that is soooo far from the truth..I never understood the real damage it did to 'ME' -- until I began reading that book
and seen the feelings I felt put into words..<p>If your S is still not sure he's ready to give up the fight for his marriage..ask him to contact a local abuse shelter or church and see if they have a support group for partners of sexual assualt victims..If they don't..tell him to ask if they could start one..they could contact LifeWay Press at 1-800-458-2772 and ask about the Family and Friends: Helping The Person You Care about in Recovery product # 7200-26 and the facilitators # is 7200-24 -- They also have a book Shelter from The Storm: Hope for Adult Survivors of Sexual Abuse..that is also used in groups..that I used..and it is WONDERFUL!!! I lent my copy to my counselor at the D.V. Shelter, she also lent it to the Counselor who deals mainly w/ Sexual Assualt Victims, they are looking into getting copies for them to use in their support groups now..It is Christian based, which for me helped in learning the new patterns of belief about myself..<p>It's been 21/22 years ago since I first told someone about the abuse..I went to my first counselor then..about 3 times..he kept telling me
I must have done something to provoke it..so I quit going..but..I also carried that belief with me..that it was MY FAULT!! I wanted my dad to love me..so I deserved what I got..thats what love was..about 2 years later I went to another counselor, all he ever told me to do was write my dad a letter and tell him how I felt..and that would make me feel better..it just brought up more feelings I didn't understand..and he couldn't help me understand those..so again I quit going..17 years ago I was visiting my dad and his new wife..
(they lived in the house I grew up in) and I was hit with floods of memories..I thought I'd die..
so I went out and got drunk..tried to bury the feelings or at least numb myself enough to where I couldn't feel anything..but even that didn't help the memories that raged in my head..I started counseling again about a year later..I started dealing w/ some of the feelings..but the closer I got to facing the pain of really admitting what happened to ME..and not just to my body the more scared I got..and I was going to a male counselor and that triggered even more panic attacks..he was transfered out of state w/ his church..so I was again w/ out a counselor..and was starting to look for yet another counselor when I met my ex..but because I wasn't emotionally strong enough and didn't really understand the dynamics of the damage done emotionally to me..I believed him when he said.."You just need to forget about it" just get over it..it's in the past..so I tried that..
again..it didn't work..I still had the nightmares,
I still had the triggers even more so after we married and he was drinking..he still doesn't understand what I felt inside when I smelled that beer on him..he doesn't understand how it would throw me back to childhood when he would try to have sex with me..and it wasn't him I seen but my dad..because the smell of the beer triggered those memories..and I couldn't hide from them..I literally had to make my mind shut down till he was done..because it was like living the abuse all over again..and it didn't matter how many times I told myself "he's not my dad" the smell was the same..I tried to explain these things to him...
as best as I could..and all he would say is
"GET OVER IT ALREADY" and "I'M NOT YOUR DAD"
which I knew..he wasn't my dad..but to my mind..
it didn't matter who it was..the smell triggered these memories..and he wouldn't quit drinking..and just told me to "deal with it" "get over it"
well..in 1998 a friend of mine sent me the book
"The Wounded Heart" and I read a little bit of it..and tossed it aside..and said..I am healed already..I don't need that..but I also seen myself in the pages of that book that I'd read..and I'd pick it up again and read a little more..It took me about 3 months to get through the book and I literally cried all the way through it..and my internal emotional healing really began..it took me awhile but I finally found another support group and started back into individual counseling..this time w/ a female counselor..
I don't even know how long I went to her..but the more I healed..the more I changed..the worse my marriage got..or I guess I should say..the more I realized how bad it really was..things others tried to tell me for years..my mom included..but I didn't see it..because to me it was normal..it's how my parents marriage was when I was growing up..which is why I guess I should have listened to my mom..back in 96 before she died..she told me then I was living her marriage all over again..
I tried to tell her it wasn't that bad..because I hadn't had to call the cops on him to have him thrown in jail, and he's never hit me...so I stayed...I had to quit counseling for awhile because of finances but I am going again now..and have been going this time since about Oct of last year..I started in a group and then started individual counseling at the DV shelter..so all in all it's taken me about 5 counselors..and lots of hiding, and over 20 years to get to where I am now..and still have areas I struggle in..it's a long road..but one worth traveling..<p>I share this with you so that you can maybe understand and share with your Son things to help him better understand your DIL..her closest relationship is w/ her husband..and because the abuse was w/ a male family member, it can trigger those memories..if he loves her and is willing to stand by her and support her, have him get a copy of that book..it may cause her to get even more angry at him..but he just needs to learn to not take some if it personally...I know you've said he's changed..she just isn't sure about the changes..the other man right now is a distraction for her..something to keep her mind off her internal feelings..but they will resurface..
Trust me I know..so if he can get himself into a support group..something that can help him..and also get her that book..and let her read for herself she isn't alone in what she's been through..she may begin to want to change..to learn what it's like to have and be loved the way she deserves..right now..she doesn't think she deserves it..not deep down anyway..which is why she's settleing for less than what she could have
in a loving, caring relationship...

Dear Estes,
Glad to see you back - I have been looking for you and wondering how you are. I'm having trouble with my Hotmail account right now - can't establish a secure connection so don't know if any e-mails have gone astray. <p>I also would like to say how much your posts have helped - you are a deeply thoughtful and compassionate person who is able to communicate your thoughts and feelings to others in need in a way they understand - this is such a wonderful gift - we are all lucky that you have found this forum, even though it is your own pain which has brought you here.<p>Your love for your son brought you here, the love you hold as a parent for your child. It is because you have loved him and love him in this powerful way that he has had the strength to be able to try to go so many extra miles both for his WW, and for his own son.<p>I know it is a dark time for you and for him, but I believe that even if his M fails completely, he is doing the right thing by being there for his son. If there is eventually a battle for custody, his actions as a father and his background should weigh heavily in his favour, while her actions and background (sad as that may be) will not count positively for her. <p>I am very moved by ThornedRose's testimony about her own experiences. I was in group therapy many years ago for depression, and one of our group members was a girl who was both addicted to speed, had been sexually abused by her stepfather, and was a single mom with a 2-yr old daughter. She was an extremely talented artist. The father of her child was her pusher - in and out of jail - she was unable to shoot herself up, and this is one of the things he would "help" her with. It was a tremendous experience watching her shake off the chains of her life-crushing experiences through the support and love she found in our group. She found the strength to quit drugs, kick out her boyfriend and face the abuse she had suffered from her stepfather. Her mother was in complete denial - refused to believe her husband, who was such a good provider, had done this to her daughter. She chose to see her daughter as evil (the drug abuse proved this) and a liar. In order for her to attend her counselling sessions, this girl needed her mother to babysit for her. The mother took the little girl back to the family home, under the care of the stepfather. My friend accepted this until she saw the way the stepfather touched her daughter - she recognized the same softening up techniques she herself had experienced and realized her SF was prepping her own child for what he called "love". It was this that was the trigger for her to take charge of her own life - the need to protect her own child - she confronted her mother, and refused her access to her GD unless she kept her away from the SF. She found a different babysitter for her D so she could attend counselling without putting her D in danger. When I left, she was free of drugs, free of her BF, standing up for her D and herself and involved in a community art project. She gave me hope.<p>I have another friend now who suffered abuse from both her F and her B - she has 2 kids, boy and girl. She is a good mother, but I think she still has unresolved problems. There are small ways in which having your own children bring up the SA for such a victim - having to wipe your small child's bottom for example. My friend is a loving mother, and her children doing well, but she is someone committed to trying to stay married and be a good mother. She has sought help.<p>It's possible that your DIL's problems may have been triggered (memories of the abuse revived) by becoming a mother - also by becoming the mother of a male child. A twist of fate. All the more essential for your GS that your S be a strong presence in his child's life.<p>Another good author to read on this subject is Alice Miller - I'll try to find the title of the book. I was struck by her contention that the conventional response that a victim of abuse must learn to forgive is entirely wrong in such cases. That actually what the victim in such cases needs is to not forgive - the victim needs to be able point the finger and tell the truth about what happened, and feel the injustice of what was done - to demand that the victim forgive, even eventually, to have this as an expectation hovering in the background only adds to their guilt and cripples their ability to heal. Goes against our Christian beliefs and cultural expectations, but in these cases, perhaps forgiveness is best left to God. Freeing the victim of the need to forgive helps get the healing process going.<p>I do hope you are well. Please take care. Hope this is helpful.<p>Odile

Just a quick reply before I'm off to work. I'll be back this afternoon. I wanted you to know I've read your posts.<p>Dear Thorned Rose, thank you so much for sharing what is a very personal experience.<p>odile, thanks for writing.<p>I'll be back later.<p>Estes