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Seems I can give all kinds of good advice but I can't live by it myself.
According to my H our recovery is going really well.<p>According to me....it's not.<p>Our main problems:<p>1. He doesn't make time for me. He makes plenty of time to saty ofter work and talk to buddies....makes plenty of time to work on his truck...makes plenty of time for us to take the kids out or for us to go out with HIS friends....but makes NO time for just US.
2. He doesn't show me as much affection.
3. He only seems to be interested in sex and sexual affection.
4. He doesn't stop to listen to me. I have to talk to him while he is doing something....which isn't important so there is really no reason as to why he can't stop whatever he's doing to listen to me.
5. He is making decisions without talking to me....big decisions.
6. He wants recognition for things that he changes...at my request....which I give him....BUT...gives me no recognition for ANYTHING.
7. My feelings aren't considered at all in any situation.<p>I see us reverting back to the way it used to be Pre-A.<p>I find myself holding back on talking about things that bother me because I truly feel that he doesn't listen to me when I talk.<p>He says alot of things.....has led me to believe that this or that is going to happen....and nothing happens.<p>I truly believe that he isn't putting our marriage on the top of his priority list. I'm just supposed to live with the decisions that he makes and be happy and get over everything.<p>He thinks that sex will solve everything and though I've told him what my interpretation of affection is.....he only acts on what he thinks affection is.<p>Everytime I bring up anything it is turned around to make it look like it's my problem and I'm the only one who can fix it.<p>I asked him a question about 2 weeks ago....can't remember what it was now....and he looked at me and said.....That was a stupid question. It hurt my feelings and I started to cry. He never apologized....and later he acted like it never happened as always. And he thinks that I should be able to do the same thing.<p>How did I get myself into this mess?<p>Better yet.....why do I keep putting up with it?<p>Don't I deserve to be treated the way I FEEL I should be treated?<p>Why am I constantly making time for him yet he can't do the same for me? Why am I constantly the one that tries to fix everything....while i seeth with anger while I'm doing it?
I never used to hold back on anything.....now I find myself avoiding more and more.<p>I don't see this marriage going anywhere if this keeps happening.

MP---<p>Sounds like you two could use a third party to help you out---a counselor. Are you seeing one?<p>Even if he won't go, perhaps you should go on your own.<p>It might help to answer the question you put at the end of your post--<p>******"...why do I keep putting up with it?<p>Don't I deserve to be treated the way I FEEL I should be treated?"******<p>Your unresolved anger is going to get you nowhere.<p>I am really sorry that this is so hard---but it is...that's why counseling can help.<p>Good luck <p>E

MP,
Maybe you did this intentionally, but each thing on the list is just him, what he's not doing...you know you can't control him or MAKE him do anything right? So...what are YOU doing? Or are we to assume you are doing everything on the list correctly? <p>"Our main problems:<p>1. He doesn't make time for me. He makes plenty of time to saty ofter work and talk to buddies....makes plenty of time to work on his truck...makes plenty of time for us to take the kids out or for us to go out with HIS friends....but makes NO time for just US."<p>Lor--are you making plans for the just the 2 of you? Who made the couple plans preA? If it was you, then it wouldn't be unusual for him to think it will always be you. Communication.<p>"2. He doesn't show me as much affection."<p>Lor-If you are affectionate...unless he pushes you out of the way...he'll be affectionate in return, even if he doesn't initiate it, you can.

"3. He only seems to be interested in sex and sexual affection."<p>Lor--and your point? Is one kind of affection necessarily better than another? Don't you want sex?<p>"4. He doesn't stop to listen to me. I have to talk to him while he is doing something....which isn't important so there is really no reason as to why he can't stop whatever he's doing to listen to me."<p>Lor--Depends on what your saying. If it is casual conversation, do you need for him to stop everything? If it is important, what happens if you say "Honey, put down the wrench/remote/nutcracker, I really need to know what you think about this."<p>"5. He is making decisions without talking to me....big decisions."<p>Lor--he's always done this, right? That isn't going to change because of recovery, it's always been a problem for you. And, you are going to have to figure out if you can accept this, or what will work so he includes you. A $$ amount? Or time spent away from house, more than a couple hours reasonably needs some discussion. Which kind of sole decisions bother you the most, start there.<p>"6. He wants recognition for things that he changes...at my request....which I give him....BUT...gives me no recognition for ANYTHING."<p>Lor--toot your own horn, bring it to his attention or tell him when you need recognition. I know it isn't romantic, but it isn't romantic this way either.<p>"7. My feelings aren't considered at all in any situation."<p>Lor--at all, ever? He overall sounds like a poor communicator, do you find communicating with him difficult as well? How about at the end of each day if you negociate 15 minutes of his undivided time? If he agrees, set the timer and let him go when it rings. <p>You have to start somewhere, and it is very easy for the bad habits prior to the A, to still be there, or even worse. It takes work, and sometimes it takes a lot longer than you wish it to.<p>Are you sure you are recognizing the efforts he does make? I know the effort my H makes in recovery looks different than the efforts I make. And, that's ok. He doesn't have to do what I do...I don't have to do what he does. We have different needs, different strengths. But he's aware of what I need, and if he's not meeting, say time together, I say, "I need some time alone with you, what do you think we can do to make that happen?"<p>I find being proactive and alerting him to my needs is a lot better than fuming and waiting... and still not having them met.<p>And, Miss Priss I think a lot of us have an easier time giving advice than taking it ourselves [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Do me a favor and read my 3rd post in my What do you do to lift your spirits thread. I'd appreciate it.<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</p>

Miss Priss,<p>I feel free to say this because I'm in exactly the same boat: The answer to all the whys is--because you are just as much in a rut as he is. Somebody has to get out of the rut, and of course, it's up to us.<p>I think my H is just barely starting to get an inkling of reality. I think he and many other men in the wake of an A think that the only problem was (in his words), "I f***ed up", and all that needs to be done is to fix that particular problem, usually with some lame boundary like ending the sex with OW (but he can handle continued contact, of course, and it's okay as long as there's no sex or some other equally ridiculous reasoning) and ultimately with sweeping it under the rug because "the past is the past". You know the routine.<p>They think as long as everything goes back to "normal", then everything is okay and life can go on as it was before.<p>WRONG-O!!!!!<p>I think my H thought that it was only the last couple of years when HE was unhappy that I might have been unhappy, too. I think it is just now starting to get through to him that I have been unhappy almost the entire M and that it is a miracle *I* didn't have an A as unloved as I've felt for over a decade.<p>Anyway, I am struggling with the exact same things you described. At first you remain silent and go along in order to keep the peace and get along. Eventually, though, you end up remaining silent because you are convinced he doesn't give a sh**, so what's the point? At this point, I'm figuring out that the point is that *I* need to learn a new way of relating regardless of how it affects him or not.<p>I know the solution is that I have to start interacting differently. I have to speak up and make sure I AM HEARD. I haven't totally figured out how to do this yet, but I'm working on it. I think it helps to isolate one thing at a time to work on. I've found The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis very helpful in planning a strategy for this.<p>For some things, I've just made policies for myself to change my way of doing it. Whenever my H is home, the TV is on and he is in front of it with the remote in his hand. In the past, I have waited until commercials to try to speak to him about something, and in the past he wouldn't even MUTE the commercials when I would do this, and I would find myself speaking very loudly in an effort to be heard over the volume of the TV, basically COMPETING with the TV!<p>Eventually I saw that this was absolutely ridiculous, and I began speaking in a LOWERED voice, which sometimes resulted in him pressing the mute button, but sometimes not. Now, I will not talk to him about anything other than what's on the TV at the time except when he's away from the TV--trips to the bathroom. Of course, he's in a hurry to get back to his show, so there is still a long way to go on this issue, but I am setting standards for myself.<p>I imagine showdowns on many of the issues are inevitable. In my case, the TV is a major one. In my mind, there is no excuse for choosing the TV over me. We have TiVo, for heaven's sakes! He never has to miss ANYTHING on TV that he wants to see. That was the entire reason I bought the stupid thing--so that TV could be paused so I could get his attention!<p>I think the key is breaking off one issue at a time to examine. You can focus ALL your mental energy on that one thing and have a better chance of finding a solution.<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Dear MP,<p>You need to learn to give the 'look'. My H is not a talker. You'd never know because he loves to talk to others, just not his family. This is a spill over from the fact that before us he did not have a family life. #3 of 12 kids....neglectful parents....etc. <p>Anyway, I had always tried to make things easier for him. What I have since learned is that he does not necessarily want it easier (he interpretated that to mean that I did not need him). go figure. So now I don't do as much and periodically (when I feel sad, upset or depressed), give him that look. He has learned to ask questions and then I use those opportunities (not all the time) to ask my questions. It makes it harder for him to back down since he 'initiated' the question. <p>L.

Lor,<p>As always thank you for responding.<p>I see now what you are saying and I admit that my H probably puts out more than I give him credit for. I on the other hand probably don't.<p>I guess my expectations are crawling back.
And I realized something while I was reading your post.<p>Whether my H shows me as much affection as usual or less than usual....if my expectations are high then it's always going to look like he does less....no matter what....so that dooms my H....and me as well for setting them so high.<p>I discussed all of this with my H last night and told him exactly how I felt.<p>I had to talk to him while he was on the computer yet again....but at least I knew he was listening because he was answering all my questions.<p>One thing that bothered me about what he said was that he said he wanted it to be like it was when we were seperated.......while I know he doesn't expect it to be that way....I know that he would like for me to get back to being that person. That person is still there under all this emotional crud.<p>BUT.....it threw me off to know that that is what he would like.....if it doesn't get back to that is he going to eventually want to leave....threw me for another loop to think that.
I haven't thought something like that in a long time.<p>I asked him and he said no.....he just wanted that confident high spirited woman back. The one that takes no crap. He sees me on the verge of being that whiny needy woman again and neither one us liked that person. I'm fighting hard not to get back to that.<p>I made us an appoint to see a counselor today....he has said all along that he would go....I'm not sure why I've put it off....I just have.
I also called my physician today and asked him to call me in a script for anti-depressents.....funny how I haven't been on anything this whole time since d-day and i need them for recovery....lol... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am the one that always made plans for us to go out together alone....so I see what you are saying....he confirmed this last night.
My problem mainly though was that he doesn't make time to spend with me at any time. Not even at home. I have asked...and he doesn't do. He consideres him being on the computer and me being in the same room time spent together....I do not.<p>The whole affection thing....well...that's touchy.
I feel that I need more affection.
While I consider a kiss and a hug or simply having his hand on my leg while we are sitting on the couch affection.....he considers grabbing my breasts and butt affection. I do not consider that affectionate. This grabbing thing is constant and even if I ask him not to do it...he does it anyway....which in turn makes me mad and he knows it....it's a lack of respect in my opinion to keep doing something to someone that they ask you not to do......a long time problem with us. This is one of the things he agreed to work on....and he hasn't.<p>I am not perfect and I do do things wrong....but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong because my H has a habit of getting mad at me and not letting me in on what he's mad at me for. Therefore he stews about it and thinks I should do something about it....but I can't because I really don't know what I did unless he tells me. I think he understands that now.<p>I guess you could say....we have a HUGE communication problem.<p>When I say that my feelings aren't considered at all....that is exactly what I mean. I don't feel that my feelings are considered at all. Decisions are still made...that have nothing to do with money....without him speaking to me. I feel that he makes the decisions and expects me to live by them no matter how I feel about it. He says this is not so.....then why is that what I feel and what I see?

Miss Priss
I didn't intend to imply that you don't put forth any effort, or that your H is actually doing a great job. It's just that if I say, "gee your H's behavior sucks" and I commisserate with you, I don't see how that helps. Your concerns are perfectly legitamate. And... You had a list, I love dealing with lists of concrete, stated concerns or difficulties and brainstorming what might work, what might spark, what might give a new line of thought. I'm not going to be on target for everything, occasionally I'm not even on task.<p>But, it sounds like you already had some success with talking with your H, asking some questions that he actually answered. That's a good step. You've expressed your feelings, he's offered his opinion, he's aware. He might forget. You might have to ask or clarify again.<p>Recovery tends not to be "ta-dah. All done." At least for awhile. Or else those folks don't hang around here [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Day by day, step by step.<p>I do have an idea about what might have been appealing about your relationship for your H during separation, because it was something I thought. When my H came over, he meant to be here. He, at some points, was invited company and treated like it. And he acted like a really good guest with conversation, interest. I made sure I was dressed neatly, if he was having supper, it would be something he likes, we did things as a family rather than scattered after supper to bedrooms, TVs, computer.<p>Sometimes when we reconciled and started living "regular" with a little more comfort, casualness, familiarity, I missed those other times, the specific attention. Even as I like the comfort we feel now together. There is no reason we can't be like company, but it's rare when we do, or we have other people over and re-discover we like that personality-ON facet of each other.<p>It may be just another place to seek balance.

MISS PRISS!!!!<p>I have been looking and looking for you to see how you are doing!!! Please e-mail me. Maybe I will just call.<p>Love you and am here for you. Call collect if need be, you have the #.<p>Faith-n-Hope