Hi all,<p>I'm pretty new to this rollercoaster, so please excuse me if this subject has been addressed before....but here goes....<p>I understand that I'm suppossed to be working on me, concentrating on what it is I need,making myself better,etc. Here's my problem, one of the major things on my list of needs is a faithful spouse. I do need that, this is not a want or a "I can get by without it" kind of thing...I NEED it.<p> So here's the thing, why are my H and I going thru the motions of trying to rebuild this marriage when a critical element of my 'needs list' my H can never satisfy? No amount of time, building of trust, modified behavior by him or me is going to give me 'a faithful spouse'. What do people do in this situation? Do you replace that lost trait of faithfulness with something else? If so, what? Help me out here folks---what would replace the knowledge that my H has never shared intimate parts of himself with someone else and then lied to me about it? I can't get that back, he can't give it to me, so why am I wasting my time?<p>Thanks for reading...<p>Angel
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

<<No amount of time, building of trust, modified behavior by him or me is going to give me 'a faithful spouse'. What do people do in this situation? Do you replace that lost trait of faithfulness with something else? >><p>Because as many, many have found, time can rebuild the trust and the belief and the faith. Your unfaithful spouse is replaced by a different, new and improved faithful spouse. It doesn't seem possible, but it can and does happen (to some of us, it seems to happen over and over again - hopefully, this time I'll rebuild by resolving the problem, rather than just repressing it!).

AngelD, I know exactly what you are going through! It's the pits!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] However, who's to say your "next" spouse would be faithful? I kind of look at my WH as a new boyfriend sometimes when I get the blues about this. If I had a new boyfriend that had been faithful to me for 4 months, I'd probably be considering him a keeper. At least a keeper for a while longer. Well, my WH has been faithful to me for 4 months now (since the A broke off). He knows he has the freedom to leave at any time, and has chosen to stay. He has many other wonderful qualities that make him a "keeper" too. So as long as he continues to be faithful, I'll keep him. But like a new boyfriend relationship, it won't take but one slip up, one relapse, and he's out of here. He was faithful for 9 years and that's what earned him a 2nd chance with me. If he remains faithful for 9 more, he might earn another 2nd chance should he ever slip up again. However, he has not earned that next 2nd chance just yet.

Thanks KS41 and jamup for your replies. I can see what you're saying about looking at my H as a new man/boyfriend. But one of the things that gets me stuck is what you seem to be saying is that you kind of 'forget' the old spouse that they were. This kind of hard for me because there were so many good memories with the old H, do I toss those away too? I guess it's all still too new for me....so many things I just don't understand...

<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: franklymydears ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So here's the thing, why are my H and I going thru the motions of trying to rebuild this marriage when a critical element of my 'needs list' my H can never satisfy? No amount of time, building of trust, modified behavior by him or me is going to give me 'a faithful spouse'. What do people do in this situation? Do you replace that lost trait of faithfulness with something else? <hr></blockquote>
Why do you say that he can 'never satisfy' this need? I disagree...time, rebuilding of trust and modified behavior DO give you a faithful spouse---if you will let it happen. If you cannot find it in your heart to forgive (not forget--we never can forget but we have to let it go)him, then, no, you can't rebuild your marriage. He's human and he made a mistake...he fell for an illusion that many of us mistake for reality--that a change outside himself --change of location, change of occupation, change of partner--could make him happy. So many of us don't realize that the answer is in us...and look for someone to help us find happiness.<p>What do people do in this situation? Those that can forgive and want to rebuild their marriage, do. Those that can't stop letting the past destroy the future, end up divorced or still married and miserable.<p>To answer your question "what did i get to replace faithfulness?" the answer is nothing. No marriage can survive without trust and security and good will.<p>It's all about forgiveness and faith. You have to be willing to give him a chance to prove himself again. If you had made the mistake (and I understand it's not a mistake like buying the wrong kind of detergent), wouldn't you want him to do the same for you?<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: franklymydears ]</p>

Who does want an unfaithful spouse?<p>Reading your post, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>H has never shared intimate parts of himself with someone else <hr></blockquote>
I'm wondering if you both were virgins, and I can understand if that was so, it could seem as if it deepens the betrayal.

If your mindset is that because your H has been unfaithful you cannot see any possibility moving forward with your marriage, then you could give it some time to see if your mindset changes or...you don't. You get a divorce.<p>But then, what if you want to get married again, you aren't a virgin, you won't likely find a virgin, so you still don't get what you want, someone who has been only with you and is the only person you've been with. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Can't fix that.<p>If you want your husband and you want your marriage to recover, then you have to realize he can't undo the past. He was unfaithful. The most he can do is keep that past tense "was" not "is".<p>You don't forget the good times. <p>The most you can do with the bad times is forgive him. Forgiveness helps with forgetting, or at least doesn't make it as painful to remember.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by franklymydears:
<strong>
Why do you say that he can 'never satisfy' this need? I disagree...time, rebuilding of trust and modified behavior DO give you a faithful spouse---if you will let it happen.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I know what Angel is referring to because I have the same problem. Part of the "magic" of the R was the exclusivity. That is now gone forever. While our husbands may technically remain faithful from here on till death do us part (which is a big IF IMO), we will always know we were discardable to them. I can't speak for Angel, but I know that deep down I will never feel that I matter to him, that nothing we had before mattered and nothing we might have in the future will ultimately matter either.<p>The reason I know this is because I chose to be faithful, and one of the reasons why is because I knew being unfaithful would be the end of the M, and I valued what we once had enough not to throw that away forever. Obviously he did not value it because he threw it away. It is not the true love I thought it was. It is tainted. The stain will never wash out. I will always know it's there. I will always know SHE is there, that I was part of a harem for awhile. It is a permanent part of our marital history that neither one of us can erase.<p>In my case, I immediately recognized that the M could never be what I thought it could be because of that now missing part that meant as much to me as it must to Angel. What it boils down to is I want to be SPECIAL. I am not. Not only that, but he gave her what he withheld from me for 10 years. How un-special is that? I will always know that, that even if I actually get what she got, I'm only getting her seconds.<p>I would not have married him if he had done this to his previous W. If I was single now and met him and he had this marital history, I would not even date him.<p>Especially now I realize that any other man in the future could cheat on me, too, especially since I did everything in my power this time around to choose one I thought wouldn't, and I was dead wrong. BUT, as I told my H, pretty much any man on earth is more attractive to me now because none of them has done this despicable thing to me, none of them has hurt me yet.<p>I specifically married this man because of his history of faithfulness in M and his experience of being a BS in his previous M. Having been a BS in MY previous M, faithfulness was a major NEED for me, as it was for my H too, ironically enough, and he specifically stated that one of my most attractive qualities was my "track record" of 17 years of faithfulness to my first H.<p>I thought we were special, that we had found each other and the key to marital faithfulness. Now we are just another sad statistic, and I'm just married to another man who's cheated on me. It feels just like my boyfriends between marriages. I had fun with them and enjoyed their company, but I eventually broke up with them because they were not marriage material and I knew the R wasn't going to go anywhere worth going.<p>So, here I am again, but I foolishly had children with a man who was not marriage material, so I'm stuck with him one way or another. The only thing I can figure to do is to make the best of it, but it has definitely lost its sparkle and its potential in my mind, and I will no longer settle for what I settled for before the A. Since I can't have that major thing of being special, I intend to have everything else I was denied for 10 years, and if he doesn't like it, he knows where the door is.<p>And my answer is no, if I had done what he did, I would not expect a second chance with him, and I would never expect for him to see me the same way he did before if he actually did give me a second chance. He's even told me he would not have taken me back if it was reversed.<p>But even with all this, I've tried to keep an open mind that maybe we can have something worth having if we BOTH do the work. He has yet to correct the pre-A issues, so I won't really even know what can be had in this R until he does. Maybe fixing everything that was wrong WOULD make up for the loss, but how can you possibly know until you see it?<p>If you're like me, Angel, you will just need to grieve for the man you loved and lost. He is gone forever, and what's worse, you can still smell him and touch him, but he's not there anymore. Someone else is inhabiting his body. Sad, but true. I just think of it as a death and something I have to grieve the loss of. I'm more of a widow than a wife. The man I married is dead and gone, and I'm living with his murderer.<p>Our choice was monogamy, and it was stolen from us. Plain and simple. You can no longer look at the relationship in its entirety and see a monogamous relationship because there was a period of polygamy. In my case, I even had to suffer the physical assault of the STD inflicted upon me, and the jury is still out on HIV. Abuse doesn't even begin to describe how it feels to have your very life endangered by someone who promised to cherish and protect you. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Thanks for all your thoughtful replies. I can understand and accept that until I forgive, the process cannot continue and we will never move past this hurtful part in our marriage. I guess that's ultimately where I'm stuck. My H and I had a discussion last night about how I felt he was not sorry for what he's done. He's even said he does'nt have any remorse or very little guilt. When I try to discuss it further, he gets very defensive and tells me " I have more problems right now than this issue, why do you want me to beat myself up about it?" Well, I could barely speak after that comment...All I could say was "you brought this problem to me!! you did it!So why are you angry at me for trying to get something from you that shows me you are at least sorry for inflicting pain on the one you profess to love so much?" Of course to that comment, I got silence..he turned over and tried to go to sleep. I told him this is how we got here, lack of communication, why won't you talk to me? nothing.....I guess that's my frustration in all this....how can I forgive him and move on to recovery when he won't own up to the damage he's done? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by angeld94605:
<strong>how can I forgive him and move on to recovery when he won't own up to the damage he's done? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is my opinion that you can't and even if you could, it would likely be to your detriment. I don't think it is a matter of forgiveness. It is a matter of insight. Your problem stems from his problem. How can you feel secure if he doesn't have any insight into what has taken place?<p>If this is a trivial issue to him and he is not owning the devastation he caused to another human being, then how can that person feel safe? I don't think you can under such circumstances unless you learn to trust yourself to survive the next assault because it's bound to come if the perpetrator has no empathy for their victim's pain and suffering. If it's no big deal, then where's the inhibition to avoid it in the future?<p>I believe your feelings are legitimate, and it is NOT your obligation to pacify your perpetrator. Once a perpetrator holds HIMSELF accountable, the victim is free to "forgive". You can forgive in the sense that you do not seek to hurt him the way he hurt you and to let go of the negative energy that detracts from living a full life, but many times the word "forgiveness" is misused in a context like this.<p>I have let go of my ex-H and recovered from the damage he caused me and I wish him no ill will, but I have not forgiven him in the true Biblical sense because there has been no repentance on his part, so no restoration of the R. I have always stood in a forgiving posture, offering forgiveness whenever he chooses to request it, but true forgiveness follows confession and repentance.<p>You are not necessarily holding a grudge if you are waiting for the elements required for full restoration of a R, and it doesn't mean you are withholding forgiveness. He just hasn't recognized his NEED for forgiveness because he's not facing that he sinned against his wife and God.<p>God forgives REPENTANT sinners. We are not above God, having the power to forgive the unrepentant. If you are expecting that of yourself, then you are expecting too much.