I am seriously considering installing some kind of spy software because I would like to find out what WH is saying in various chat rooms. I have been reading up on what others have posted about various software, but my question is what to do with the evidence? Does this seem a good route to go? Does anyone have experience with this? I am not going to find tangible evidence in a car trunk, a lot of WH's behavior takes place in cyberspace, and I just need to know what he is saying and to whom. I wonder if this will be what puts me over the edge and makes me willing to Plan B, when I have some kind of evidence in hand. (like a print out of a chat room conversation.) Any thoughts, anyone?

That kind of evidence is hard to swallow. So brace yourself and don't do it halfheartedly. Be prepared for backlash if the WS finds out and they are still in the fog. <p>My H said at one point he wanted me to find out but then he only wanted me to find out some stuff. When I passed his mark and kept finding more junk, he got angry with me. It took a while but since he really wasnt telling me when to stop or why my inner need to know kept running and I kept digging. It hurt. To this day, reading those e-mails brings back much pain. <p>L.

Be careful. My WW is still very angry for snooping after 1+ month. The issue is not her A but the fact that I opened some of the Saved documents she rather unintelligently left easily accessable in the computer.
If you know something is goin' on, it might be better to leave it at that... <p>Sweden

Thanks Orchid and Sweden. I guess I have been warned. I don't think my need to know is some sick sense of self-injury, but I just feel I need some kind of evidence. Every other attempt on my part to bring up small things I find objectionable (like his turning the page when I walk by or minimizing his location in a chat room I find objectionable by name) has been conveniently explained away.<p>Then there is the point of wrongdoing. I mean, if he'd doing something I think is wrong or harmful to our relationship, I need to feel guilty I found out? Like he shouldn't feel guilty for DOING it? Guess this is where the fog issue comes in.<p>Anyways, I am pretty certain I will at least give this a 30-day trial and see what I can find out. If there is a romantic relationship going on, or proof of rendezvous, then I think it may be what I need to do a solid Plan B. Right now, I am too afraid of the future without him, and he knows it.<p>Thanks for input.

Asgoodasitgets I did get software to catch my wife in her lies. It hurt very much but I needed to know the truth not only for me but for my children also. I have to tell you it was one of the most shocking experiences I ever had. I could not take being lied to anymore and needed to find truth in all of this and I did. Do I regret it? NO If you like I can help.<p>Carl

Thanks, Carl. I would appreciate any help I can get, I'm fairly computer illiterate. Hanora mentioned something about being able to retrieve things by MSDOS. Is that possible? I am willing to purchase software, of course. Thanks.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by asgoodasitgets:
<strong>Anyways, I am pretty certain I will at least give this a 30-day trial and see what I can find out. If there is a romantic relationship going on, or proof of rendezvous, then I think it may be what I need to do a solid Plan B. Right now, I am too afraid of the future without him, and he knows it.<p>Thanks for input.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I've had some experience at this. Only use the snooping as a means to understand where you and your H are in your relationship and to evaluate the effectiveness of your Plan A efforts. I'd advise not confronting your H with the evidence, yet. Even if you find that he has been carrying on an on-line A or other A, that is not necessarily a reason to jump to Plan B. Plan A is a plan to help end the Affair. No threats, no punishment. Identify what changes are needed to make yourself more happy with yourself and more attractive to your H (by meeting his needs). By all means, be honest with your H and let him know that you feel like you guys are not connecting and that he seems distracted by something else. Ask him to work with you to identify what needs are not being met, what LoveBusters need to be controlled and formulate a Plan for change.<p>That being said, keep the evidence. You may need it to protect yourself. My counselor advised me, after I had suficient evidence, to tell my WW that "I know there is an on-going A and I know there has been lies and deceits about other things and now I need to hear the truth from you about what is going on." This strategy gave my WW a chance to be honest and to realize I knew something was up in a safe and non-threatening manner. Rule of Care and Protection stuff. I still have not shown my WW all of my evidence. She keeps asking to see it so she knows exactly what I know and so she can think up an explanation to defend herself rather than simply to be honest about what is going on.<p>Good luck. Make sure you know how to keep the software in stealth mode so it can run hidden.<p>HoFS

Asgoodasitgets there is a device called KeyKatch that attaches between the keyboard and the back of the PC. What it does is it captures everything that is type on that PC it stores it into memory. <p>http://www.gadgets-inc.com/keykatcher_tutorial.htm<p>It then can be viewed in wordpad. I am sorry your going through this horrable time in your life. I wish you luck and with Gods will you to will make it through this.<p>Carl

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by asgoodasitgets:
<strong>Thanks, Carl. I would appreciate any help I can get, I'm fairly computer illiterate. Hanora mentioned something about being able to retrieve things by MSDOS. Is that possible? I am willing to purchase software, of course. Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>asgood-<p>Check out the web site for Spectorsoft. The software can be installed and downloaded very quickly. I've tried the e-blaster software but it only records keystrokes so you can't 'see' incoming mail or chat. I needed to purchase another software that took screen shots so I could 'see' what my W was reading.<p>Also a note about purchasing the software. I was stupid enough to use our joint credit card for this purchase. When it showed up on the bill mailed to our house, my W checked out what the purchase was for by going to the Spectorsoft website before I got home that evening (I knew she did because I had a record of her on-line activity so I had an idea when to expect the fall-out). If asked about the software, I would not recommend lying about it. Do not agree to disable the software until things are put in place to protect you from any 'secret' activity.<p>HoFS<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</p>

I agree with HFS. Gather the evidence to identify what is happening and use it to improve your Plan A. DO NOT confront WS with it...it'll be a major issue that will be hard to overcome later, believe me I did it, and I regret it. It has made it harder for my WS to trust me (in whatever weird way that can be justified) and has made it more difficult for her to open up with the truth. I think she feels that if she does tell the truth, I will use it against her which is what she felt I did when I confronted her with the evidence I found.
If you bite your tounge and keep it to yourself (VERY hard to do), and if you can take the emotional devastation some of what you find may bring to you, then it could be useful.
Be careful, and use it wisely.

Thanks HoFS and Carl for the very helpful advice. I will look into Spectorsoft today. Have you heard about iopus? It seems to do the same thing mentioned already, taking photos every minute and recording keystrokes. <p>My goal here is to have evidence not for confrontation (at least initially) but for evidence in court, if need be. So far all of my objections have been explained away as spam (pornographic jpeg pictures) or stray emails (yeah, right). I know there are some relationships going on, but I don't know if they are romantic or just friendly. All attempts thus far to explain my discomfort at screen activity (also my concerns for the children at home possibly getting into this stuff) have been effectivly explained away. But I still see activity, which he minimizes when I walk by the computer. <p>I will remember what you said, HoFS, about the online purchase with credit card. I am hoping I can explain it as an anti-virus software purchase. We only have a joint account, so he will see it. But with the 30-day trial, I am hoping I can get something initially before I have to pay. When I make payment, I could even explain it as a safety feature with the kids going online as much as they do. (teenagers in the house and all)<p>I think I have been down the road a bit already in terms of honesty and giving him a chance to really change this behavior. So far, no go.<p>Thanks again for all the input.

Thanks for your reply, Spacecase. You have been helpful already in my software education.<p>Regarding your other comments, I have to say I understand your caution to use what I find carefully and wisely. What I don't understand is how the WS can have any possible grounds to feel offended that the BS had to go to these lengths to find out the truth. The WS should feel only shame and remorse. Of course, this is the fog. And I don't want to come across pure and white here either. I realize problems in marriage are attributable to both parties, and I am willing to do my share of changing and growing. But we're talking honesty here! In its purest form and in our most intimate relationship. If it can't be found there, then surely it doesn't exist at all.<p>What a vent . . . sorry.

in any case, prepare yourself psychologically for the worst. think ahead, while your brain is still working OK: how will you react if there is a ton of evidence of an ongoing EA/PA? that's the question you need to figure out before you go about it.
I didn't, and was pretty shell-shocked then at the moment. Didn't have a clue what to do for several miserable days...

Thanks, Nick, I will be prepared. I already know he has developed an entire network of relationships to which I am not a party. My concern is the nature of those relationships. Romantic or not. And I suppose my even not being party to those relationships is enough of an issue to cause me distress. POJA and all that. I suppose one has to draw the line somewhere. The spouse who works will have relationships, if only professional, with people the at-home spouse won't know. I can handle that, of course. It's the lack of trust that makes this all the worst. I trust no one any longer.<p>Anyways, thanks for the input. I think I would rather know than not, or imagine even worse than it really is.

I installed a keystroke recorder to monitor my daughter's online activity, and was stunned beyond belief to find an explicit conversation between my WH and his OW. (although since he's done this before, I guess I shouldn't have been). I saved the text as a secured Word document, and confronted him verbally about the nature of his relationship with OW. At least this time he did not try to lie about the situation. He does not know how I found the information and I am not sure I will tell him. And I have not removed it from the computer.

My personal opinion is that this type of openness and radical honesty backed up with computer technology if need be should be a foundation of the rebuilt M.<p>But until both parties are on the same page, the betrayed has the right to the truth no matter how it is secured. I would not reveal what I know or how I know it, though, as long as dishonesty and inappropriate behavior are going on. If he has nothing to hide, then he wouldn't be changing screens or minimizing windows every time you walk by.<p>Use your surveillance as a tool, not a weapon. And definitely decide ahead of time what your response will be based upon the worst-case scenario of what you may discover. I think it can be used as a way of monitoring progress. It is like a yardstick.<p>If you do confront, and the truth is told and this is done consistently enough over a period of time and your monitoring indicates establishment of better behaviors, then you may be approaching the time of revealing your source of information, but as long as there is discrepancy between what you are being told and what you are seeing behind the scenes, then I don't think it's safe to reveal your source or method.<p>This is for YOUR protection when your spouse is not protecting you. As soon as your spouse is following the Rule of Protection, that tool will no longer be needed. It is the unprotecting spouse's choice, and I've presented it exactly like that: As long as you are not protecting me, I will be protecting myself. I will be happy to come out of my fortress or let you in when it is clear that you are committed to protecting me.

Thanks for those last two posts. You put your point across very well and convincingly, Conquerer. Thanks so much for your input. I think you hit the nail right on the head regarding protecting oneself. As I said, I have no intention of confronting at this point, only in finding out what is going on. I am trying to cover all possibilities by way of preparing myself for the worst. I am encouraged by what I have read from others, though astonishing and hurtful the revealed information may be. I just need to know. Thanks again.

Just a couple of comments:<p>I read and printed off some of her incoming and outgoing emails. Then I simply backed up her PC and saved copies.<p>I snooped on my W's (Does WW mean Wild Wife ?) computer when she wasnt there. Found some good things, some bad things, never told her but it let me know where I stood. Confirmed things which were suspected and let me know about things which were much more dangerous than I knew (hanging out with folks doing crack!!). I highly recommend it so you know what you're up against. Could be nothing, but it could be unprotected sex and AIDS for one or both of you is horrible for your kids. The snooping could definitely be upsetting to you so be prepared to go vomit somewhere or something along those lines. Save the evidence for court - or more likely, negotiations before court.<p>It definitely pissed my W off when she found out some of the snooping. But, I did it to know where I stood and only used the info when I needed to get her to move out. It helped me know that I was indeed being humiliated and treated so disrespectfully that she eventually felt guilty and left.<p>If you only have a joint account, find a VERY trusted friend to buy it for you or go to a store and pay cash. <p>Sorry to hear of your situation. Good luck.

Thanks for sharing your story and experience with computer snooping, Jimmy. I am still a bit ambivalent about it in the sense of morals, but like I said, I really feel a need to know where I stand. And if things are on the up and up, great! But my intuition tells me otherwise, else why would he change screens when I come near? If there is something to hide, how can it not be damaging to our marriage? I feel strongly about having something on paper (a printout of a chat room conversation, for instance) to show me just how real this all is. I think I may just go with the trusted friend in purchasing and installing this program (Spector or Iopus) on my PC.<p>Thanks again, and by the way, WW means Wayward Wife. <p>Take care.

I don't think there is any moral dilemma. If we accept Dr. Harley's premise that Radical Honesty is part of the foundation of an affair-proof M and Steve Harley's statement that our spouse is the most dangerous person on earth to us, then you start from that point.<p>Our first choice is to have a M based upon RH. Spouse takes away that choice by being dishonest or exhibiting suspicious behavior (hiding stuff on the 'puter screen). What choice are you left with? If it was your child in danger, wouldn't you protect them? Just because it's you doesn't mean you are any less deserving of protection.<p>If a sexual predator came into your home and your child was sleeping in the next room, would you answer honestly if he asked you if you anyone else was in the house?