Hi.
I think things are going pretty well with us - but my H is out this eve and anxiety has hit me right between the eyes. I know OW is back in town, but I'm told she's only here for a month, then she's back to France for good.

The thing is, H seems really happy - and I don't know whether its b/c things are good with me or b/c she is back in town. We hit rock bottom the week of 25 Mar-30 Mar -I asked him to leave then - plan B - that was when he decided he wanted me and our M to heal, and told me he would break off with her. But he hasn't proven to me that he has done this - he also has started IC counselling and admitted that he is the one with the problem - these are HUGE steps for him.<p>But in my anxiety about her being back, I started checking the phone bills and have found a call made to a no. in France that I think can only be hers - I know the town she lives in - there's no other reason for him to call this area code - this call was made on 11 April and the next day, he phoned a cellphone no in France. <p>So what's the deal here? this was on our landline phone - most calls he makes to her I'm assuming he used his mobile so I couldn't trace his contact with her. I'm surprised he slipped up here. <p>I guess I've told myself - he's in counselling, he wants to work on his M, she's only around for another month - being realistic, I expect him to try to see her with the excuse of "wrapping things up". <p>Do I wait this out? Do I say nothing and keep on being positive with him - that seems to be bearing fruit - he's a lot more affectionate - hugs, kisses, even going out to coffee and going to the movies last night.<p>How do I hide my pain? Am I letting my anxiety destroy the good work and progress we've made? I still don't feel like we're both all the way into recovery, but he's heading in that direction. FormerHopelessOne - do you have any advice for me? I read your husband's post on SomethingWrong's post over on JFO - how I wish I could hear some of those words from my H! I am only just starting to realize how lonely I really am. I'm afraid I'm ripe for an affair myself. Feeling sad and lonely.<p>Odile

Why is your H out this eve?<p>IMHO, tell him you love him and you are committed to working on the marriage but there must be radical honesty. Cushion your comments with compliments. Tell him the good things he is doing how much fun your having with him. Let him know if he is completely honest you can handle anything. Then tell him about the phone calls you know about. If he tells you, yes, he called...wrap things up... tell him that you appreciate his honesty and that it hurts you but that you want to help restore your marriage so for him to be radically honest and tell you when he desires to call her. Thats the hard part - being there for him through this. If he lies, tell him how you know. If he still lies even after you show him proof of how you know it is a lie then just tell him you are not trying to figure out if it is true cause you already know it is. I think you need to tell him how you feel calmly - no lovebusts. I feel hurt/betrayed that you called her. Tell him you feel insecure because of the affair and you need words reassuring you that he is committed to the marriage. <p>Has he done a "no-contact" letter?

Hi, ILaPM,
Thanks for answering me - I'm up late here in the UK - <p>My H is out b/c he went to London to hear a (male) friend's performance in a concert. (My H is a prof classical musician). It was OK with me that he went - he also went last week to hear his teacher play - my "monkey mind" has wondered whether he took her with him - but my rational mind has told me this would be really stupid of him - highly unlikely that he would make such a mistake - both of these friends are people who would deeply disapprove of him having an A and both hold me in v high regard, and both are important to his career - he wouldn't blow those kind of prof contacts just to take her with him. So I let him know it was OK with me for him to go - he has a BIG issue with freedom from scrutiny b/c of his mother, who is incredibly controlling and invasive (one of the deep-seated problems as to why he's in this mess in the first place). Be that as it may - that's HIS problem. My problem is trust.<p>I'm not sure about confronting him about the phone call - I just don't know if it will drive him back into his cave, when he was just starting to come out again. No, he hasn't written a no-contact letter. I asked him a few days ago whether or not he was getting any e-mails from her and he said no. He also told me he didn't mind me looking over his shoulder when he is on his own e-mail account. Maybe I should test the waters by taking him up on this offer. It seems like he's trying - I know this is really hard for him. Also, since he knows that I accessed his e-mail a/c through the saved history, he has mostly wiped the history when he's done - but the other day, he left it up - didn't wipe it. I wondered if this was bait to see if I'd spy on him, so I didn't take it. I want a husband I don't have to spy on. <p>He just called me on his cellphone - he's on the train home - sounds sober and tired, but checking in with me. Sounds normal.<p>Think I should just sit tight and wait until she goes back to France - it seems like according to Harley, real recovery doesn't start until the OP is really out of the picture - I can't be sure she is out until then - a month from now - only after that will I be able to see if he maintains e-mail and phone contact with her. If I confront him now, he might conceal any phone calls he makes to her. Also, its likely that we might be in MC 6 weeks from now - he's having some IC sessions first - <p>Do I sound like I'm wobbling? Or am I just being neurotic? Or am I being patient? Or all of the above? Is it possible to be all of the above?<p>Oh! I'm so tired!
Odile

Do I sound like I'm wobbling? Or am I just being neurotic? Or am I being patient? Or all of the above? Is it possible to be all of the above?<p>You sound like someone who is trying to recover from infidility in your marriage. You also sound really good in your reply. You sound like you know whats best in your unique situation. I trust you and you sound like you trust yourself. You sound like you have a good handle on whats going on. <p>Keep posting, your doing great!!!<p>I'm leaving work for the day. Its 6:00 pm here. <p>Good luck in your marriage and recovery!

Odile,<p>A couple of things come to mind. First, I agree with your idea about letting things ride until OW is back home. It's not surprising if he is still talking to her. WS do it all the time while they are trying to end the A. Bringing it up could result in LBing which would hurt your cause and not hasten the end of the A anyway. Once she returns to France, it is likely that the phone calls will continue for awhile. At that time, it will be important to implement the POJA and agree to complete openess regarding his phone calls and email accounts and whereabouts.<p>Secondly, you said that trust was your problem. I think it's better stated that breach of your trust by your H is your problem. The fact is that you should NOT trust your H. (Harley says that.) He has proven that he is not trustworthy. It will take a LONG time for trust in him to be rebuilt, and he will have to work hard to prove that he is worthy. I know it is tempting to expect trust too soon. However, from reading on MB we learn that most WS backslide a number of times before the A is finally ended.<p>I know you are emotionally exhausted, but you are doing the right things. Can you keep it up awhile longer? Try to conserve your emotional and physical energy so that you will be ready for the changes that will occur after OW goes home. I don't want you to have too high expectations, that once she moves back, she's gone from your life, because her ghost may be around for some time, and I don't want you to be disappointed and crash emotionally if the fallout of the A hangs around for awhile.<p>You are doing so well in this. Stay calm. Avoid LB-provoking situations. Do whatever it takes to calm your emotions and take care of your health.<p>I'll check with you tomorrow.
Estes

When I discovered the OW phone number, I called her and let her know that I knew her little secret and that she needed to stay away from my H. Her H ended up calling me back. It blew the whole affair into the open and ended it pronto.<p>JMO, keep your cards close to you. Seeing those phone #s on the phone bill is not a good sign, though his behavior is. I had the same thing happen with me when my H was still in contact with the OW though.<p>I don't know what else to tell you except to keep plan aing him and staying alert to this and other signs.<p>Bluebird

It may be really hard to do, but knowing that the OW is leaving- I would continue in Plan A and ignore the phone calls, while continuing to monitor them. Concentrate on making your relationship with your H as strong as it can be. At some point, you'll put your foot down, but since she's leaving in a month I would wait until then.

Odile,<p>Sorry I didn't see this earlier -- out of town for work last week, busy weekend.<p>My thoughts are that you are doing a great Plan A -- no LB, meeting his ENs. That is what you should be doing right now. If you know that confronting him about the phone call would be a LB, then I would avoid doing it right now. Your H is still currently in the fog, although your recent actions have probably been making him reconsider everything. Continue the Plan A -- you are making him rediscover the person he fell in love with.<p>If, after she leaves, contact still continues and you feel the EA is still continuing then you will need to make some decisions. This will give you an additional month for your H to see you good qualities and the reasons he loves you. Then, if you move to a Plan B, this is what he will remember. That is what Plan B is about -- preserving your love for your H and leaving that great impression with you H of how wonderful you are.<p>Regarding trust, that is something that you and your H will need to work on when you are in recovery. Remember your H is still in the fog. I don't think they come out of the fog until a while after the A has ended. You should probably remember that fog when your H says totally bizarre things -- I remember when my H was still in the fog. I can't believe some of the things he said. Now he says things like how could I have done this, what was I thinking, etc. I think when they realize these things they have emerged from the fog. Trust will start to be rebuilt as your H is honest with you, as he shows true remorse, as he does realize what he has done (this really helps because if he realizes how terrible it was it should prevent this same choice in the future). I know that I now trust my H to a certain extent -- not totally, but more than after D-day.<p>I hope this helps. You have made great progress so far. Remember not to let the day-to-day rollercoaster get to you. Keep your eye on the prize -- a great M and partnership.<p>Hang in there and keep posting.<p>FHO

I am really grateful for all the advice - which has helped me to survive this last month. I'm posting again because I'm trying so hard to stay emotionally focused on plan A - being positive about ME, trying to focus on the things I need to do to meet my own needs, and also to stay away from talking about the OW to my H, making any demands, just trying to be positive to him about himself, since he has started IC. But there have been some further "developments" and I'm finding it hard not to worry and to stay quiet.<p>First of all, the day before Easter, my H finally realized I was serious about not tolerating any more of this - he told me he would break off with her - he hasn't. I expected this, but she is going back to France for good at end of May, so I am trying to stay calm and positive until then. I don't think I can live with my H having a long-term EA with her even at a distance - by e-mail or phone or letter.<p>I am not snooping on the computer, because I know I can't handle what I see there - it's just too painful for me to read, and I know that I will end up confronting him in a rage - I have decided it is better to build my own self-esteem and financial independence and then, when I am ready, spy to see what he might still be lying about - I want to be in a good position if and when I get to the point where I ask him to leave.<p>On the computer, there is evidence that he is trying to set up an ISP account with a French service provider called Wanadoo - he would have his own password to access this, which he does not have yet - this would give him another e-mail a/c besides his Yahoo account. Why should he need this? Getting ready for e-mail contact after she goes back to France?<p>Also, we are planning a family week in Paris end of July - something arranged 18 mos ago, meeting my sister and her family there - haven't seen my sister in a year - I thought we would travel back by train together, but he now says he want to go on a music course in the Netherlands for the four days afterwards, so he wouldn't come back with us, but travel north from Paris to the Netherlands (her town is near Rheims, NE of Paris). He is also reading a guidebook about Vienna. Don't know if I am imagining things, but every unexplained plan or action now has me jumping at shadows. Gut reaction? Don't know and am in the dark.<p>Also, 2 days ago, finally had lunch with my friend (French) - lady who introduced her to my H (she feels REAL bad and does NOT like what is going on) - this girl travelled back to France with her for Easter, and came back with her 2 weeks later - she babysits for my friend. She told me that she tried to get her to talk about relationships - to see if she would open up, because the girl does not know my friends know what she is up to. She said the girl told her that when she meets someone she always lets them know that she is "not free" (in a committed relationship with her BF) - that said, she confided that she had made a friend here in England that she considered to be her "alterego" - like her soulmate - (GAG ME) - but it was OK, because her BF "trusts" her. When the train pulled out from under the Channel Tunnel, she whipped out her mobile and immediately checked her e-mails - "Oh my God!" she exclaimed, "I forgot to tell my friend that I was going to be gone 2 weeks, not just 1 week!" I remember catching my H on the computer that week - he looked up and I saw a look of abject misery on his face.<p>Well, my heart bleeds. I can't write anymore, because he's going to come back any minute.<p>My friend said she wants to talk to her and I said I didn't mind - my mind is made up and I will not tolerate this long-term. My friend is disgusted with this girl's behaviour and said she thinks I am more than patient. She said in France they have a term for such an affair - that the only thing left to do is to go to bed. But even in France, where infidelity is tolerated, discretion is expected, and never the break-up of a marriage with small children. So she has crossed way over the line, even by French standards. My children have already been hurt, and there is lying going on on both sides - she believes the girl's BF is unaware of how serious it has become with my H.<p>Question - what about her forgetting to tell my H about being gone 2 weeks? Evidence of not thinking about him? Confused? <p>How am I doing?<p>FHO - special thanks for looking in on me - hope you are doing well - keeping all my fingers crossed for you. <p>Estes - reading your posts - praying for you, too. God bless,<p>Odile

^^BUMP^^<p>Help!<p>Odile

Hi odile,<p>I am on lunch break at school, so don't
have much time.<p>How are you doing. Great! You have done everything you can. You simple cannot make WS stop contact if they do not want to. I think your suspicions are right, the French email account and the trip to the Netherlands.<p>Still, I don't think you should dispair. Keep things nonconfrontational. Wait until after OW goes back to France, and give it some time even then. <p>I predict that your H is headed for a big let-down when she gets back with her BF again and does not have time for H. It think she will have less and less contact with him, and H will be really depressed.<p>Keep telling yourself that your can't change him, but you can strengthen you. Also, start thinking about specific boundaries, what you will or will not tolerate from him if he continues to cling to this relationship. What will determine your need for Plan B?<p>Later,
Estes

D-day for me was over a month ago. I have had to forgive my WW over and over and over again for continuing to hurt me by not giving up OM. I too am heavily spying, looking at cell phone bills, looking at her called list on her cell phone, tracking car mileage-asking what she did during the day-and going to mapquest to add the mileage up, trying to get phone records, considering taping phone conversations, and installing software on the computer to keep a log of every keystroke on the computer, asking 2 yr old if he has seen "Uncle" as WW has described OM to 2 yr old. WW has found out about most of my spying and, boy are these LB's.<p>I have determined that in order for Plan A to work, I have to work on me. I have to be positive about our M, not ever mention OM unless WW brings it up. I have to be willing and ready to start Plan B when required. I have to "OWN" my situation and accept the way things are and will be and realize that there are OW out there if M doesn’t work. <p>I feel for your pain. It is terrible when my spying turns up what I know is actually still going on, but I must try not to tell W because I know we will go back to the beginning all over again. <p>Right now my wife and I are hardly talking. She has been cruel to me and is trying to make me look like the bad guy. I am scared to talk to her about the A or her feelings because I know I probably will just be looking for an argument and a LB. <p>It is amazing how she is able to find a fault in me every time I bring up OM. Recently she has accused me of drinking too much. I thought one or two drinks a night was acceptable, but now I have to give this up too.<p>Well, I was hoping sharing some of the things I am going through would help you. Unfortunately, I probably was not much help. Good luck.

Thanks for the replies - I am at work and can't post much - but have time later tonight - thank you so much, Estes - I am just trying so hard to keep my hair on - have had other ideas for doing relationship-building things which will share later.<p>Dreamland - I know exactly where you are right now. I know how much it hurts and how scared you are to rock the boat for fear of pushing her further away. It's so hard, and the loss and betrayal are so great. I was reading on Wrungout's thread and someone posted a website called www.divorcebusters.com - with a whole list of things NOT to do - I think this well help you to keep a grip on yourself during this awful time. There WILL be light at the end of the tunnel, for you - no matter what.<p>Will write more later,
Odile