Hi,<p>I went to grab an article today and found this post hanging out there all alone. Hope it helps to move it here.<p>Posted by: FISK<p>
Text of post:<p>I had no idea that this was such a prevelant issue. Everyone here is experiencing what I thought only occured in movies or to the "neighbors who fought a lot" but is obviously very common.
My wife lost total interest. She saw a councilor privately then decided that she needed a separation. She also admitted that she didn't:
Find me attractive anymore
Had no more feelings
Didn't want counciling
Found me too quiet, dull
No more church, (we are christians)
Wanted me to be more manly<p>This is one reason I have not read on these posts I am not Tom Selleck but rather a shy programmer. She has made it clear that she wants me to either turn into a macho person with a high level of energy, aggressiveness, and be the life of the party. That only will please her.<p>Unfortunately she is probably right, but I would have rather she told me earlier so we could address it rather than bolting. We've been married ten years and have two small children and a tight outer family (inlaws, etc). She would rather start over than try to fix what she believes cannot be fixed. We are extreme opposites with limited common interests.<p>After a few close run-ins she has decided to stay. I have been reading these posts and plan on doing the following...
started therepy for my overt shyness.
Tues appt for anxiety/depression drugs.
Will start doing plan A for ? (3 months?)
Will avoid the topic of feelings, etc as this seems to make the situation worse.
Get back to church (mostly for my own sanity and to find some friends. etc)<p>I do believe that she is currently in or has finished an affair although it is mostly instinct due to that "things are not right" feeling. No proof whatsoever though. I've checked through the cell phone log but nothing unusual. She does leave every night for friends/work etc. I have no way to divert money to purchase a recorder or Priv. Invest. without it being found and I have to remain with the children she leaves. Don't care, would rather work it out regardless.<p>When she is home she goes in the bedroom and shuts the door for the night. She will converse maybe 10minutes a day. She has totally withdrawn and will not talk about the subject. She will not seek counciling with us together, we have gone once and she told the councilor five minutes into the session that " I want a seperation and he cannot understand that".<p>She may still want one. Pressing her on her intentions (are you here merely to pay off the bills so you can afford to keep the house after the separation? or do you wish to work on the marriage?) has not worked, she is still deciding what to do. I believe that she may be waiting to see if the drugs make a difference in my withdrawn personality.<p>This change was sudden six months ago in her, it was about the same time she started staying out late drinking with the married neighbors (two other couples) and she has since picked up a drinking and smoking habit (I had to work two jobs in AM. so had to go to bed at 8pm with the kids).<p>Cut to the chase-> How long do I bend like a reed in the wind to her whims? What is reasonable and at what point does it veer from "Trying to save the marriage" to "doormat"?
I am 100% devoted to plan A and will do all, but if she still has no interest after x amount of months I feel possibly I should seperate as our situation seems to deteriote while I am in the house. No fights, but no smiles, no banter, total avoidance when I enter the room. <p>I feel she has already decided but will not leave the house (she wants the house). I only hope to convince her over the next few months that I am a person she would want to stay with. <p>Does staying in the house increase chances of reconcilliation or when withdrawel is reached, and no progress is made over a few months, is it still prudent to stay?<p>Thanks for listening. This was my first post and probably the longest in the Marriage Builders Forum!<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: InShock ]<p>Posted by: FISK<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: InShock ]</p>

Hi, <p>Welcome to MB and hope we can help. I am sorry your W is setting these requirements which based on your description doesn't sound very family oriented. <p>Just a bit of background? Age and length of marriage of you and your W? Age of the children? How long has this A thing been going on and your 'discovery day'? <p>Not trying to be nosey but this info does help those of us who want to help. <p>Look above under the marriage builders logo and see the concepts section. Take a look at the contents. Also if you can get your hands on the book His needs/her needs you may find the info there helpful.<p>Your being a programmer vs Mr. Macho is not a good enough reason for her to treat you with such gross disrespect. One that is hurting not just you but all associated with you and your family. <p>Don't let her fool you into thinking that the above reason is good enough. Let her come up with one 'worth' considering. Women and men react differently to being involved in an A. <p>That bood will help you. Another one is Surviving an Affair. Start there and let us know how you are doing. <p>L.
ps: Inshock? I was not able to open that link.

Orchid,<p>I fixed the link. I am a programmer so I am sure the error was due to a hardware problem [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks so much for responding here. This a new user-member, first time post. Even with my 3-digit member number on display I still remember my first post. Each reply gave me so much help and hope.<p>Welcome FISK and Thanks Again L.

Welcome FISK...<p>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It has a lot of quick links to many of the most important MB sites...
Click here ==> General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)<p>About your post...<p>It does sound like a typical WAW syndrome<p>Do start on a Plan A...
Check out the post Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.).<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jim / NSR

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've been a lurker for a month or two and had never posted. I've done lots of reading and that link regarding the woman withdrawal syndrome is right on the money.<p>A bit of detail as requested. Wife is 30, (just turned 30, are you making the same connection I am? Time is running short and I need to find that perfect mate?) I am 35. Our kids are 5 and 4. Most of this started about six months ago when she turned 30. That same time was when she met the neighbors and started going out with them. Hitting bars etc. I quit my second job as I felt she was drifting. When I told her I gave my notice for the second job (3-6:30am, had to be in bed by 8pm every night!) She was noticably upset. She didn't want me to have nights off to spend with her again and was having more fun on her own and with neighbors. That pretty much started it. <p>She then started admitting some unsavory thoughts she had during that two week period. Thinking of separating, wanting seperate accounts, not enjoying my company, feeling short tempered with everyone. She started drinking daily 3+ beers, started smoking again. Got into the new music (rap, teen music, etc), experiencing sexually with herself after I went to bed early, she thought of tattoos. Spoke of admiring the personalities of the neighboring husbands, couldn't I be more like they? and everything I did that she didn't agree with was wrong and drove her to an unseen rage. Who was this person that used to be my wife?<p>Then I found these forums and it was such a relief reading. I read for three hours straight the first night in total shock of how common this is. How my situation could be the same as anyone elses and parallel their's exactly except for the name of the wife. <p>As I mentioned, the affair (current, ended?) is still conjecture but I really feel it may have occurred at one point. I really can put that behind me I believe. Of course now it's easy to say when I do not have a face to attach to the other person. Likely it is one of those two neighboring husbands. <p>Why do I think this? It was reading that post of 50 reasons to suspect your spouse and almost all of them are pretty close. She loves to be with them, dresses up for them at minor occasions when it doesn't call for it (going next door to discuss a b-day party of the wife with the husband requires makeup and lipstick. She looks forward to babysitting for the other one while he trains a karate student in the basement. Her mood is lifted 200% right before she goes next door. Washing cars without a shirt will catch her attention and a comment from her out the window to him. I guess the clincher is when she started putting down the wife. That was the instinctive gut clutch feeling that said, "It's a reality." <p>You can only hear one side of the story from my post and although I would never insinuate that I am to blame for the affair, I can clearly see over the past years when the wife slowly slid down the importance scale. Little annoying things build up such as the infamous paper reading at supper, leaving crumbs on the counter, etc. Those things did not disintegrate the marriage, but my apathy towards her dismay at these things drove us to where we are.<p>So what next? I feel I am slighted, unfairly treated, not appreciated. But all those things I realize mean nothing at the moment. What gains one to be right and yet lose your marriage? Ten years from now I want to look back and if things do not work out, feel that I have done my best and did nothing rash/hasty. <p>So I'll suck it up. Be the great husband that she wants. I'll take the sighs and slights and smile back. Start of plan A. That and a bit of praying. I have to, the thought of a future someone else reading bedtime stories to my children in my house is a little too disturbing to let this slide.<p>Thanks everyone, I'll keep you posted, and wish you all the best of everything also.<p>Fisk

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I feel she has already decided but will not leave the house (she wants the house). I only hope to convince her over the next few months that I am a person she would want to stay with. <p>Does staying in the house increase chances of reconcilliation or when withdrawel is reached, and no progress is made over a few months, is it still prudent to stay?<p> <hr></blockquote><p>Dear FISK,<p>Don't leave the house!! There are several reasons for this. 1) She is the one who is dissatisfied. She is the one who has the problem with the M. She should, therefore, be the one to go. You did NOTHING to deserve being uprooted from your home. 2) As long as there has been no legal intervention, you have equal right to the house as your W. Without a hearing, you do not have to leave. 3) Separate only as a last resort. Yes, it is wise to stay even if you are not living as H and W. If you leave, she can carry out the A - esp, since it is with a neighbor - very easily, and the children will not be well attended because of her distractions. 4) In case it comes to a custody conflict, stay with the kids in thier own house. The court tends to favor the parent who has been the primary caretaker of the children which you would not be if you left. <p>Start keeping a journal with the particulars about when and what hours she leaves the house and the children in your care, when she comes home late, drunk,etc. Write it all down because you will be experiencing emotional overload and facts will run together. Don't let her see this.<p>by all means, get back with your church family. You are going to need a support system.<p>This experience is just getting started, so for now keep it steady, observe, build your case, and take care of yourself because this will become very draining. If your W is having an A, you cannot MAKE her stop. You can Plan A, take care of the kids, and guard your health, and be patient.<p>Take care,
Estes

Hi, Fisk. Listen to Estes49. She knows what she is talking about. My attorney said some of the same things. My story is similar, but my H moved out. I think your W maybe going through a midlife crisis. I know that you think she needs to be older, but not so. I thinking that way because my H moving out cause me to go through a crisis of my own. I have changed my hair color, changed my clothes style (sexier now), lost weight, look at men more now and flirt more often. They say hind sight is 20/20. I realized that I had become a mother to everyone (6 & 4 yr sons) plus my husband. I was so busy being a mom, I forgot how to be a W or soul-mate. Now I don't have much of a chance because H has moved out. Try seeing if she will go to the park and walk with you. Just the two of you. Do things together. Have your family keep the children for a weekend and go somewhere inexpensive (camping in the woods, to an amusement part) I know this sounds bad, but pretend that you had never had kids. Go back in time when it was just the two of you. I now realize that I hated my life but it took a separation to clear my head. Since she is still with you in the house, try and work on it. Being nice and sweet and loving isn't being a doormat. It means that you love her. Love doesn't stop overnight. It's been five months and counting for me and things are looking up. My H and the OW just broke up. He is not moving back in. Got to get to know him again. You need to get to know your W again. Ask her about her dreams for life and bet you will get an ear full.

Great replies, thanks. The relationship tends to be taken care of by the man when dating, then when married it is the wife. Time to get back to a "dating mode" when I was more involved in the relationship. We need to somehow spend more time together. In some respects I'm pretty lucky as we are both still married and still in the house.<p>Fisk

Fisk,
Don't move out, don't give up!
You seem to have a pretty good idea of what's going on, without rehashing the details that you have given, I would say that she is having a MLC and participating in some extramarital activities...<p>Keep reading, keep posting. Your children deserve the chance to have both parents at home and you are going to have to work very hard to keep that going.<p>Does your church have adult Sunday school classes? You will find a support group in the fellowship of Christ's family. Are your children going to church? Take them with you!<p>This site will offer you much encouragement, even if you just lurk... I will pray for your family.

Just turned 30? Yup..I see the connection BIG TIME. Went through the same bunch of 1/3life crisis myself (hoping it wasn't mid...I'd like a few more years than 60 [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) A Woman's Book of Life, by Joan Borysenko breaks the prominant "life cycles" down pretty well. It better explained to my why I was feeling the way I was feeling. Just a couple of cents worth.... Good luck!