This morning Ws said “I know what the right thing to do is but I just can’t bring myself to do it”. I asked her what is her version of what the right thing is. WS said, “ I need to let OM go”. I asked WS to get on the MB board to get some support on her feelings and some advice. WS said no she doesn’t feel like it. We went to the counselor on Friday we both liked her. We made another appointment for Monday. Ws still says she doesn’t know if she wants to work on marriage. WS says she hates the feeling of going back and forth on what she wants to do. Does anyone have any advice to offer to help WS to get over OM? Can anyone offer some insight as to how much pain Ws should be going through during withdraw.

G'mornin, Mr. Funk - of course I can't offer direct knowledge, but from what I've absorbed from WSs and other BSs here, what she's describing sounds very, very, very typical.<p>I hope you get some better first-hand validation.<p>The fact that she's saying these things to you is very positive, IMHO. I never heard anything close to this.<p>My only suggestion is to listen intently and validate her feelings. I'm sure you know this already, so this is just a reminder - these Venusians don't want us Martians to propose solutions for every delemma. Just acknowledge that she's having this indecision.<p>WAT

I'm a former WS. I had a 24 month EA..thought I fell totally and completely in love w/OM. (I've been married 21 yrs. and have 2 teenage sons. Oh, also, I never fell out of love w my H, even though I had fallen in love with OM.) Tell her letting go of the OM will will be the hardest thing she will ever have to do...but it will also be the best thing she can do for herself, her family, and you. You or she can write me at Ashirley1@hotmail.com...

Ashirley, if I understand correctly you had an EA with OM. My wife has had an EA & PA with OM. I understand that it took you 24 months to end it with OM. I also understand that letting go can be very hard to do. I have been in the same situation before (only I was not married). I do not know if WS is contacting OM. WS says it’s been a week and a half since he called her. I guess what I am trying to get at is if WS is still contacting OM it is unacceptable and will only stunt our progress to move on. I hope I can convince WS to contact you on this matter. I feel she needs to talk to someone that’s been in her shoes.

"The right thing to do"..... ~~~~ was your phrasing~~~~ my opinion:<p>Listen to her... with your eyes focused on her face~~~~<p>Keep your mouth tightly shut (prevents you from uttering worthless *advice* or *solutions*)~~~~<p>Hold her hands while she speaks~~~~<p>Tell her "A hug would really help me right now" after she is finished speaking... wait for her response before hugging~~~~<p>Thank her for sharing~~~~<p>Then go for a walk and pray for patience and courage~~~~<p>THIS will make YOU a better husband .... and it might do her some good too ... but, it's largely for YOUR benifit!!!!!!<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by funkedup:
<strong>I guess what I am trying to get at is if WS is still contacting OM it is unacceptable and will only stunt our progress to move on.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Of course it's unacceptable. It was unacceptable for her to have an affair in the first place.<p>Repeat after me:<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>Mr. Funk - please understand that we all know your pain and we're all pulling for you. Sometimes the best thing we can do for you is smack you around a bit and talk tough. Understand?<p>For the record, I think you guys are gonna make it. I really do. just practice PTC - patience, time, consistency.<p>WAT

"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>"There is nothing I can do to make my wife give up the OM."<p>OK I get the idea...easier said than done.

"easier said than done"<p>Well then...now you have some idea where to start working on your issues...yes?<p>And...just for the record..."easier said than done" is very true for the OTHER side of the fence as well.

It is true you cannot control your wife'choices but you can control what you are going to accept.As a result you do have control. I believe it is the nature of human beings to continue with behaviour that they get away with. It is not that she can't stop wanting to contact the OM; it's that she has no incentive to stop. When she sees that you really have had it with her behaviour she will stop.

tomaz...I disagree.<p>I see a huge control issue going on with Mr and Mrs Funk. If Mrs Funk's primary excuse for the A is the constant feeling of being controlled...then how do you think Mr Funk trying to "lay down the law" is going to help? It isn't...it will push her deeper into the A. If Mr Funk, however, can see issues that led to the A in the first place and FIX THEM...she might take a second look at the M. It sounds like she's certainly thinking seriously about keeping the M...just needs to find the motivation to leave the fantasy world of the A behind her.<p>Time and patience...takes a lot of both...neither of which is assisted by trying to control the situation, the person or the outcome.

It is not a control issue if he really has had enough and wants out of the M. That is his right just as much it is hers.<p>She should be made aware, in a non love busting way, that time is not on her side or anybody's side and that there is the risk that if and when she finally decides to get serious about no contact with OM, it may turn out to be too little too late. This has happened before and then the WS is left devastated not only at the loss of OP but of the BS as well.<p>Joe

"It is not a control issue if he really has had enough and wants out of the M. That is his right just as much it is hers."<p>Yes, but then let it be noted that he has put forth as little effort as she has if that's the case. I've told Mr Funk before, if he's looking to find an excuse to get out, the A if the perfect one...but if he really wants to work things out and fix the marriage...it's going to take more than finger pointing and rule making.<p>I've had a "sense" of Mr Funk since both he and Mrs Funk started posting on this board. His posts have been full of blame and "is this legitimate enough to leave now?"...as well as an overall "DEMAND" for attention even from this board! So yes, I "SEE" control issues. And having gotten a sense from Mrs Funk (both in her post and from statements she's made about the board that were relayed from MR Funk) she's not about to back down and lose whatever control she percieves she has. I am the type of person who is totally willing to compromise...but TELL me I HAVE to do or be or say something...and watch me fluff right up and tell you I WILL NOT! All rational goes straight out the window...I simply WON'T be TOLD what to do. I'm maturing in that area...I've gotten much better at thinking before reacting...but if Mrs Funk is anything like that (and it's just my feeling she might be) the situation will not be improved by telling her it's THIS or THIS. I'm NOT suggesting it's ok for Mrs Funk to continue contact...and I'm not saying it's in Mr Funks best interest to be a doormat. I'm saying that if control IS an issue for them, then "laying down the law" will actually work AGAINST Mr Funk, not for him.<p>Mr Funk, you've said your wife has made comments of wanting to work on the marriage, and then expressed doubts as to whether or not the marriage can ever be what she needs. Have you two talked at all about what it is you percieve as having been a problem in the marriage, and what it is you need/want out of a marriage in the future? Have you listened/heard what her "beefs" are and have you considered whether or not you even want to try to change to accomidate her new needs? It really does take change in BOTH people. My marriage is NOTHING like it was originally....it's not even necessarily BETTER, just different. We changed, so it needed to change with us. What patterns and things do you see in either of you that need to change? It's possible if you start working on that change yourself...she will follow.

I just want to thank hope4future. Not for taking sides, because I know you're not, but for seeing the control issues when others cannot. This IS a big deal for me. And I am one of these "you will not tell me what to do" types. Maybe I'm too strong-minded sometimes.<p>But H did alot of LBs this weekend. I wanted just to not argue, but he insisted on the comments, accusations, etc. He's leaving on Friday for a fishing trip with the boys (been planned since before the A) and he thought about cancelling, but decided that he's "not stopping [his] life for me". He tried to let me think for as long as possible that he wasn't going, until I found out at the counselor's when she tried to reschedule for Friday, and he said he'd be away. This is the first I knew of him definitely going. Now that I know, he's been throwing remarks left and right like:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>"I just might come home a little early" <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If you have him over, I will find out. <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I just may hire someone to watch the house <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you have him over and I find out, I'll burn the place down. <hr></blockquote><p>OK, like this makes me feel like working on things? Not. I told him this is the type of crap I'm not willing to deal with. Just when I get good feelings, they go right out the window with comments like this. Right or wrong, who needs to live like this?

Are you two listening to yourselves? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] She/he started it! She/he said this, so I'm doing that. Why should I cooperate when he/she is doing this or has done that? <p>Do you guys really want to make this work? If so, step back and really look at yourselves - not eachother. <p>Are threats really going to work? Is defiance really going to work? No and no.<p>Mrs. Funk - True, he should go on his trip. Why should either of you try to stop eachother from doing things that would be perfectly acceptable (like this) under different circumstances. He's not going forever, just a few days. Maybe it will do some good for both of you to be able to think and evaluate.<p>Also, maybe you could try to say something like, I know it may be difficult for you to leave me alone. I realize you will probably have some issues, but I also know you need this for you. I understand that I have no reason to expect you to trust me, but I do want you to know I love you and will do right by you while you are gone. You may or may not believe this, but I hope it helps some. All I can do is reassure you right now, and in time you will see you can believe in me.<p>Mr. Funk - Maybe you should try something like, I've been planning this trip for awhile and really want to go. I know you've been putting a lot into this and I can only offer you my faith that you will make the right choices while I'm gone. I love you and look forward to coming home to your arms.<p>These are just my thoughts. I am in no way trying to attack either of you. It appears from prior posts of Mr. Funk that Mrs. may have felt on the outs at times here, and that is not my intention at all. We are all just looking to help. Please continue to post. This is a great place, and alot can be gained here. You are both doing great in that you are coming here and asking for help. Keep working and the results will be grand. My best to you both. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Mr & Mrs Funk:<p>First, Mr. Funk: DAWG, did you really say those things to the Mrs???!!!<p>One piece of advice. IMHO, DON'T LB. Plain and simple, it's not going to give you the results you desire.<p>Mrs Funk: My WW is also a "don't tell me what to do" headstrong type. I think she got physical with her OM as much out of spite to me as out of giving in to OM's desires to poke her (sorry for the graphics, I'm still tweaked about it). She had asked me, early on, what I thought constituted an A. I responded stupidly "as long as there's no sex, it's not an A", not knowing squat about EAs and how they affect women in particular. So, if she knew that I was fixated on the sex issue, why did she go ahead and do it?<p>Doesn't really matter, actually, because it's focusing on the past. I need to figure out the future. So does Mr. Funk, in your case. He can only rebuild his trust in you by STARTING to do so, and these stupid judgemental LB comments of his won't get him anywhere. <p>While my W is a "don't tell me wh..." person, I'm not like Mr. Funk, I'm more like a "just take it and shut up" person. And STILL my W has called me controlling! I think in my case this is fog latin rationalization, because I don't think I am controlling at all, but it's going to have to be understood if we're going to recover.

inafunk - I can see both sides of you two's stories, although I was only a BS. Neither one of you is LB free. Seems that you get in a death spiral no matter which one of you LBs first - you by your actions and him by his words which incites more disrespectful actions by you which generates more LBs by him, etc., etc., etc. I can believe we haven't see the worst of both of you. So far, the MB work by both of you has all the precision of a prison riot.<p>So, just using what you wrote above, will you consider making responses such as these in the future?<p>Him: "I just might come home a little early"<p>You: "Good! I'll be happy to see you back early!"<p>Him: "If you have him over, I will find out."<p>You: "I'm sure you can, so please check on me to see for yourself that he wasn't here."<p>Him: "I just may hire someone to watch the house."<p>You: "OK with me - they won't have anything to report."<p>Him: "If you have him over and I find out, I'll burn the place down."<p>You: "I wouldn't blame you if you did - but you won't have to."<p>So, not only can you say these things, but can you mean them? If not, he's got all the reasons he needs to continue LB'ing you and you'll both continue the death spiral. If you can't pull your half of the load, please tell us so we can recommend to him that he go to Plan B.<p>I'm not taking sides, so don't fuss, I can pose similar questions to him.<p>WAT

WAT:<p>"I'm not taking sides, so don't fuss, I can pose similar questions to him."<p>Post similar questions to him!<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I think Mr. F should have stayed home. I think they need time together, not apart. But it needs to be quality time.<p>And I still maintain that if you, Mrs. F, would control yourself, your H would have no compulsion to control you, or at least no excuse, and then you and he and everyone else could see the difference--the legitimate control issues you have with him would stand out in bold relief. As long as you feed him with inappropriate behavior, he gets to hide behind that and not confront the issues HE owns.<p>If you're not in agreement about marital recovery, then just say so. If you're not going to follow the extraordinary precautions, own that, stand up for that. If you think that will contribute to marital recovery, you are dead wrong, but if refusing to follow the extraordinary precautions enhances your life in some way, then continue the way you have.<p>Seems to me you're both miserable. You all can continue to pursue your separate agendas, OR you can both work on the joint agenda of marital recovery, but doing both is not possible under these circumstances.<p>And I'll help WAT with Mr. F's alleged statements and how he could have avoided LB-ing Mrs. F:<p>I just might come home a little early because I may miss you too much.<p>I hope you will not have him over when I am gone because that would hurt me very much.<p>I'm in so much pain about the possibility of you having contact with the OM that I feel compelled to hire someone to watch the house while I'm gone. I'm taking my cell phone--will you please call me if there is contact so I can feel reassured, or let me know if you'd like me to come home to help you get through any compulsion you may have to contact the OM.<p>It's so hard for me to leave because of my fear of you and the OM being together that I have crazy thoughts like burning the house down if he is ever in it. The thought of the two of you being together causes me huge amounts of pain, and I really need your help to get me through this difficult time.