I need a lot of help!!! I am very new at MB and this message board. I recently posted my situation and had a few very encouraging responses. Thanks for those that took the time to write a response - they were very helpful!<p>To read a basic summary of my situation, see link below (hope I did this right!)<p>Summary of my situation<p>Okay.....lots of questions! <p>I am the WS. My XH and I have been DV for just over a year - this past December (after 12.5 years of M and 3 sons). Fog began lifting this past December. I left and moved out from OM toward the end of March....at which point I told XH that I wanted to reconcile if that was possible. He had just started dating someone a few weeks before I verbalized interest in reconciliation. I did not know he was dating someone when I decided to move out and told him I wanted to reconcile and that is not the reason I want to reconcile. <p>He said he would think about reconciling. I have done a couple of big LBs since then (although I didn't know that's what I was doing....so glad I know better now!!!). <p>The boys and I live 4 hours away (by car) from my XH. When I first told him I wanted to reconcile, he was pretty emphatic that I needed to move back. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea...yet. I wanted us to begin the road to reconciling and then I would move back. My reasons are - I have a very good job here and I don't want to disrupt my children's schooling again. Also, I don't want to give up my job and disrupt schooling if he changes his mind...then I have to start all over again. However......after reading SAA and Dr. Harley recommends spending TONS of time together, I'm starting to think I should move. I am sure he'd be okay with me moving at the end of the school year, at which point I could leave my job, b/c I work in a school. <p>Should I move???? The logical part of me says I should offer, but only move when I know for sure he's committed and is no longer dating GF? Is that reasonable? I was thinking today that I can't say I'll do anything to make this relationship work and then be unwilling to move back. If I do move back, do we remain living in separate houses/apartments? Or do we move back in together??? so we can spend lots and lots of time together and probably make it easier on our boys??? (and financially as well).<p>In the meantime.....what types of things can I do to show him that I am serious, committed, remorseful - while I am still 4 hours away? <p>I have written him a few e-mails - it seems the best way for me to express myself without getting really upset over the phone and making him angry. He has responded positively to those e-mails so far. He did say, the last time we talked on the phone - to keep doing what I'm doing and that (referring to his GF) - he has to find a way to get out of the sitation that he has put himself in - I took that to mean that he needs to find a way to let her down gently and get out of the relationship before we can begin reconciliation. <p>I know I have wounded him so much and I don't want to push him....but I do want him to know how serious I am and that I truly am willing to do whatever it takes to restore our love/relationship and hopefully get re-married. <p>I have so much I want to say to him....why I feel I had the A to begin with.....etc., but I don't want to make him angry or upset. I also want to explain why it took me so long to get to a point that I wanted to come back....but I'm afraid he'll think I'm blaming him. When I left and divorced him, he just basically let me go. I think I was waiting for him to say something like "I love you...I truly love you. I know we can work this out. Please don't do this"....but he never did. He never expressed true, undying love while we were married, before the A. That was one of the EN that wasn't met...but the OM told me he loved me all of the time and was very affectionate and romantic. Should I tell him this type of stuff or wait until we are committed to reconcile and then let him know while at counseling or something????<p>Sorry this is so long. I want to do the right things to show him how sincere I am. I know he is afraid to trust me and I can't blame him. How do I go about showing him that I mean what I say?<p>Thanks for bearing with me and for your help. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you want, you can e-mail me directly (I hope it's okay to put my e-mail address in here. NC20505@netzero.net<p>[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: NC20505 ]</p>

Hi NC: Welcome to the board. <p>Well, for starters, you need to be patient, very patient with him. Understand and acknowledge his feelings, his skepticism, and fears. Continue to reassure your intentions and your feelings for him. We can never assure them too much. You have to realize that he let you go, hoping you'd come back, but just when he thought there was no hope he began to move on and then you came back. Let him work through his emotions and be there when HE needs to talk about them.<p>As for the telling him things. Take this slow. Work on the you part of things. Be happy with you, and continue to share you love with him. Sending the e-mails is great. My BH and I found that sometimes it was easier to communicate. Maybe on some of the things you should wait till he asks. Let him determine the pace of the disclosures. Understand that things you may tell him might upset and/or hurt him. Acknowledge his pain and hold him and reassure him that you love him.<p>The move. . . It may very well be good for your children to move closer. If it is feasible at the end of the school year, then maybe you should consider it. However, do it for you and your children, not because you expect to rekindle. Don't move closer with expectations. Have no expectations. Hopes and dreams are one thing, but be sure to see the difference. Continue to work on you and being a better you. Also, remember that little things go a long way! As for moving into the same house. I would have to say it may not be the best idea, at least from the start. My thought here is that if things do not work out (for whatever reason) it could make things all the more difficult for your kids. It would be very confusing. Let your kids know that you and daddy are talking and going to try to work things out. That you are going to move closer to be able to see eachother more and spend more time together as a family. Make sure they understand there are no guarantees. I think that moving into the same house gives a guarantee. Baby steps, and patience.<p>You have a long road to travel. It seems there is a lot of untouched ground. It will not be all easy, but it is possible and well worth it. Don't be afraid if it seems at times you are taking a step back. Sometimes it may seem for every two steps forward, you take one back, but you are still progressing. <p>Again, little things go a long way. Plan little dinners, as a family, just the two of you. Plan some little fun days on a weekend (put-put, zoo, park, etc.). Send him flowers at work with a note that says "I was thinking of you." Call him "just 'cause". One thing I did that had a big impact was: after my son was in bed I put on a nice dress, got some music playing on the computer, put a table with candles and wine on it on the back upstairs porch and called my husband up by me. We danced under the stars and drank wine, and although it was rather chilly out, we didn't even notice. Be sure not to drown him in things (these are just some ideas), but I think you get the picture.<p>I hope this helps. If there is anything else you think I can offer you, please ask. I wish you well, and hope everything works out for you. Also, keep posting, we are here for you.

Hey NC20505:<p>I replied to your ealier post a while back.<p>Just to chime in a bit... keep showing your sincerity. Be patient, understanding, remorseful, very open and honest.<p>Don't bring up or try to explain the A. Let him know you will talk to him about it when he wants to know, but let him ask the questions. They will come, he will want to know. It's part of the healing process, it was for me anyway.<p>The most important things(again) are patience and understanding for what he's going through. No LBing!<p>I wouldn't worry about the GF too much. IMHO when he feels safe about you, she will be let go.<p>I would not move yet. But you need to spend all the time you can with him. Visit him every weekend if possible, stay the weekends with him if he will let you. If you don't work the next day, get over there. Stay in a hotel if needed. It's the only way you two can tell if you can work it out. (again just MHO)<p>Anyway, good luck! You can do it, just go S-L-O-W!<p>TTFN - JB

I think you should move back because you never should have moved the children away from their father in the first place. And this is regardless of what happens between the two of you. The children should have maximum time and access to BOTH parents, no matter what their marital status is. The children's relationship and time with their father is far more important than a change of schools.<p>As far as reconciliation goes, I think you need to have a plan. Right now it appears you need to be in Plan A since he is in another R and hasn't ended it yet. Read up on Plan A. I would read the information about living together before M before doing that. Once you are both committed to rebuilding your M, you need to develop a plan of recovery. SAA is probably the best way to do that because both of you are recovering from other relationships.<p>If you follow the plan in SAA, you will both fill out the LB and EN questionnaires, so all that stuff you're wondering whether to talk about will be dealt with at that point. I wouldn't rush it. I'd go in the order in the book--it came from years of helping couples recover from infidelity.<p>The only way you can show him that you mean what you say is to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. If he is smart, he will be watching way more than listening. If you want to talk about the past, talk about YOUR mistakes, not his. Show YOUR insight into YOUR contribution to the deterioration and eventual destruction of the M. Completely confront yourself so that you can do a good job of disclosing to him what you discover about yourself.<p>So far, what I see in what you've written, you are focused on him and what you didn't get from him. As long as that is your focus, don't expect him to be enthusiastic about reconciling. What you need to be figuring out is what part of YOU allowed you to betray your H and your M and what YOU are going to do to fix that part of you. Another important path to follow is instead of focusing on what your H didn't do for you, focus on how things might have been had YOU been the person with your H that you were with the OM.<p>Above all, avoid any statements that could come across as blame shifting and that is primarily what I saw in your post. You didn't have an A because your H failed to express undying love to you. You had an A because YOU failed to protect your M against your own weaknesses. You didn't leave him for the OM because your H failed to beg you to stay. You left because that's what you wanted to do at the time. You stayed with him for as long as you did for the same reason. You will not find the reasons for YOUR choices and actions in your H. You will only find them in yourself.<p>The best way to influence your H to confront himself and his contributions to the deterioration of the M is to focus on all your stuff and deal with that. When he observes that happening, he will have less need to protect himself or to keep you informed of what you did wrong, and it will be easier for him to look at himself. If you're already scrutinizing yourself, there will be no need for him to. If you're already holding yourself accountable, he won't need to.<p>I think there is still some fog clearing that needs to be done: Your H "just basically let you go" because YOU WERE ALREADY GONE.<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kb4jb:
<strong>Hey NC20505:
Just to chime in a bit... keep showing your sincerity. Be patient, understanding, remorseful, very open and honest.<p>The most important things(again) are patience and understanding for what he's going through. No LBing! </strong><hr></blockquote><p>This seems to be the main, repeated advice from those that have replied. I will make every effort to heed it!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I would not move yet. But you need to spend all the time you can with him. Visit him every weekend if possible, stay the weekends with him if he will let you. If you don't work the next day, get over there. Stay in a hotel if needed. It's the only way you two can tell if you can work it out. (again just MHO)</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I can understand this advice, but I can also understand when Conqueror said I should move back, b/c I should never have moved to begin with. I know my XH was very, very hurt that I moved away and moved the boys away from him. He is an excellent father. <p>Also, in the Five Love Languages book (I read it many years ago), I determined that my XH's love language was one of "doing things" - the things I did, the actions I took meant the most to him. That is why I think the "actions" of what I did hurt him the most. He took me moving away as not wanting to ever be around him. In my mind, that's not why I moved, but I can understand why he thought that from his POV. With that said, I think what would mean the most to him now, what would show my sincerity and remorsefulness, would be to move back. To humble myself and go back to the city in which we lived, the city where I began my A and face all of the friends we had there that know about it and to move back to be near him and bring his children back. <p>I do understand I shouldn't move back with expectations. However, reconciliation would be the biggest reason (and bringing the boys back to be near their dad). This is not our hometown. My XH is in the military and this is the city in which he is stationed and probably will be until his retirement. Neither one of us particularly likes this town....but he doesn't have a choice of where he can live at this time. If we do not reconcile, I am not sure I can handle seeing him around town with his GF. That was one reason (of many) that I moved...I didn't want him to have to see me and OM out to dinner or at the movies or shopping, etc. <p>Also, about sending him flowers, notes, etc. I would love to do this, but I don't think he would like it. It's really not his thing. I think the action thing is. Does anyone have any other ideas of things I can do for him? <p>I offered to come down with the boys this past weekend - it was his b-day....but he said he had other plans (obviously with his GF) and not to. How can I spend time with him if he doesn't want me there? Do I just keep offering and hope one day he says "sure, come one down!"??? I don't want to surprise him, b/c he doesn't particularly like surprises. I love them! He hasn't introduced the boys to his GF yet or said anything to them about her and I don't think he'd like it if we showed up and she was there. Any advice on that? <p>Thank you.<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: NC20505 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conqueror:
<strong>The only way you can show him that you mean what you say is to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. If he is smart, he will be watching way more than listening. If you want to talk about the past, talk about YOUR mistakes, not his. Show YOUR insight into YOUR contribution to the deterioration and eventual destruction of the M. Completely confront yourself so that you can do a good job of disclosing to him what you discover about yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have been doing this somewhat. In the last few e-mails that I wrote him, I told him I was sorry for focusing on what was wrong in our marriage and always trying to "fix" things and "fix" him, that I didn't appreciate and spend enough time caring about what was right in our relationship - and there were a lot of great things. I told him what a wonderful man he is and that I was sorry for not appreciating all of his wonderful qualities. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>So far, what I see in what you've written, you are focused on him and what you didn't get from him. As long as that is your focus, don't expect him to be enthusiastic about reconciling. What you need to be figuring out is what part of YOU allowed you to betray your H and your M and what YOU are going to do to fix that part of you. Another important path to follow is instead of focusing on what your H didn't do for you, focus on how things might have been had YOU been the person with your H that you were with the OM.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I can see how you would think this. I don't think I came across very well in my post. Did you read the summary that I had posted the link to? I agree that I need to focus on myself and the things that I did wrong. I am truly sorry for what I have done. Some days I think it had to have been another person that did all of these awful things. But no....it was me. I am not trying to place blame on him for my A. I made the decision to leave our M, to cheat on him with someone else and to DV him. I am not saying those were his fault. I think I was just verbalizing that I realize some of the problems in our marriage before the DV. I am for the first time understanding that my EN were not being met and that is what I was in search of when I had the A. I tried to explain that to him when I told him I wanted the DV....that for me, it was for emotional reasons, but I didn't know how to verbalize it in a way that he could understand. I am sure I was not meeting all of his ENs either. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Above all, avoid any statements that could come across as blame shifting and that is primarily what I saw in your post. You didn't have an A because your H failed to express undying love to you. You had an A because YOU failed to protect your M against your own weaknesses. You didn't leave him for the OM because your H failed to beg you to stay. You left because that's what you wanted to do at the time. You stayed with him for as long as you did for the same reason. You will not find the reasons for YOUR choices and actions in your H. You will only find them in yourself.<p>I think there is still some fog clearing that needs to be done: Your H "just basically let you go" because YOU WERE ALREADY GONE.
[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>From the time I told my XH that I wanted the DV to D-Day, about 3 months, he didn't try very hard at all to get me to stay. At the time, it made me feel like DV was the right answer. I kept expecting him to act like I thought I would if I were in his shoes. I would have begged him to stay. I would have made a counseling appointment and asked him to go. I would have fought for my M - or so I would like to think. He didn't fight for it at all. He said he loved me and that I was making a mistake, but that was about it. He didn't know there was someone else and I think the lack of passion on his part to try to stay together really hurt me. I felt like he didn't love me b/c he didn't express it in a way that meant something to me (love language). Please do not misunderstand. I am not placing blame for the DV or A on him - I am just stating what was going through my mind at the time. I have not told him any of this. I think this will only come up when we discuss ENs and I won't talk about mine as a way of blaming him for the DV or A - only what my ENs are and how we can meet each other's ENs.<p>Thank you so much for your response. You have given me a lot to think about and a lot to work on!!! I feel very blessed to have found this website. The advice I have received has been invaluable. I am going to do everything I can to be patient and understanding - while showing my remorsefulness and willingness to do whatever is takes to restore our relationship - while focusing on myself and correcting the things that need to be corrected within me. <p>If you have any other gems of wisdom, I would be grateful. <p>Thank you.<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: NC20505 ]</p>

Even though your xH has expressed a desire to reconcile, he is still having a R with GF and because of this I would suggest you tread very carefully. What I mean is that you should avoid any love busters that might push your xH further into the R with his GF. Remember in your original post you said that you felt that the dynamics of your R with xH have reversed? You were right. Even though your xH is not involved in an EMA, he is involved with another woman and you, his xW, forming what is called a triangle.<p>A lot of things can happen from here to the end of the school year, so be very careful in not beign impatient with him because he is involved with another woman. You are right now beign judged by him whether you are worth the risk or not.<p>In the meantime I would suggest that you not obsess about reconciliation and concentrate of taking good care of yourself and the boys. Go out and do some fun stuff like going to the movies, going to a ball game, enrolling in a gym, reading inspirational books, enrolling in personal improvement classes (personal finance and investment, relationship improvement, automotive, cooking, etc.).<p>And please, don't become a stranger that comes here once or twice and then leaves without a trace. Even though this forum is biased towards the BS, IT IS NOT a lynching forum for WS that have seen the destructiveness that an A causes to their loved ones and to themselves. Just the opposite, you'll find that it is home away from home for the WS that needs help just as it is for the BS. In fact you at this point are a great treasure and resource (like the regular FWS) because you can reach out to other WSs that are still 'in the fog' and they'll, hopefully, see that they are not the only ones that have gone thru this experience. You can literally save somebody else's M and possibly her/his life. Just imagine what great sense of purpose to have helped another human beign like yourself survive and thrive after this life shattering experience called infidelity.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

NC,<p>I posted to one of your other threads but I thought I would offer you some other thoughts.<p>The issue of needs as discussed by Harley and all is in my mind a very very subtle thing. I am of the opinion that needs change, that they move about, but one must remember what "needs" really means. Most people can and do survive without having many of their needs met. Yet, when a marriage is in trouble, the concept of "needs" is very powerful. How can this be?<p>Meeting needs is a way of showing another person that you care, love them, and will protect them and your marriage. The only need that cannot be met outside of the marriage or by oneself is the need for sexual satisfaction. Yet, the others are very important.<p>You have been cautioned not to "blame" your H for your A. Excellent advice. In that vein one must in my mind be careful about expressing that the BS didn't meet your needs. It may be true, but that isn't really why you had the affair.<p>However, why you had the affair is crucial for you to understand and convey to your H. If you can, and he realizes that your love for him fell and you became vulnerable then he can develop confidence that he can again trust you. If you tell it is because he didn't tell you enough how important to him your were and how he loved you it sort of sounds like blaming. But it's better than saying you failed to meet my "needs". He no doubt did as you did his, but he didn't have an affair.<p>THe affair wasn't about him not loving you or caring for you, it was about someone else talking to you in a way that attracted you. Yes, he met your needs or at least some of them. But, this more about some hole in you that the OM/ old BF met. Perhaps you wanting to live the fantasy you had in HS before life passed you by, what it was learn about it. Embrace it, understand it, and explain it to your H. THen the two of you can decide if he can fill this hole for you. Actually he cannot, but he can perhaps help you fill it within yourself. <p>Ask your H for his help, please don't forget to ask him for help. If you show him how to help you, and as he becomes more comfortable with that idea, it will help him. The converse is true for him as well. <p>So where am I going here. If you feel you could love your H again, tell him. If you feel you want him in your life again, tell him. If you feel you should apologize for what you did, then tell him and continue to tell him.<p>But, leave the needs talk alone until you two really decide to rebuild your marriage. AT that point you can suggest that perhaps he should read Surviving an Affair or His Needs Her Needs. At that point he will probably understand the concept. THe book on love languages might be of help.<p>But, the point is you cannot educate your H. Big LB there. But, you can guide him as he becomes willing to move.<p>Please note that your real needs are: food, shelter, healthy children, and then love of someone who really cares about you. THe needs Harley lists are those that if done, tell the other person what you should already know, that your are loved and respected.<p>So, don't view the needs as the be all end all, but they are an excellent way to show your spouse that you do love and revere them. It is an excellent way to discuss or begin to discuss much deeper aspects of your relationship.<p>BUT, I think when you have read about needs as you have, it makes it much easier for you to look deep within yourself and see what led you to make the decisions you did.<p>I would recommend moving closer to H when school is out. I would also like to suggest that while you may be embarressed to meet old friends, your H may be embarressed to be viewed as being weak for taking you back. You should discuss these things.<p>There are many tenants of this sit. Radical honesty is one, but so is the Policy of Joint Agreement. If you haven't read up on it, please do so. I think it will help your H and you protect one another from unrealistic expectations and if you agree to it, it may help your communications.<p>You can do this NC. So hang in there and give it a try. No matter how it turns out, your children will know that you and H tried, and more importantly you will know you tried. This won't be a cake walk, but it seems doable. Give it time and have plenty of patience.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: My guess that he couldn't bring himself to beg you to stay, when it was probably very obvious that you didn' t love him any more. Most people in an affair do a lousy job of hiding the fact that they don't love their spouse anymore.