Hi, Things are moving-first the fire, now H is coming tomorrow (uk time) to veiw possible house for me to buy!Wont get my letter til the next day-see (Naej do I follow my heart thread)Had hoped it would work a little magic, pull a few happy memories out of the past.
Said he had seen solicitor today and agreed my house split % and would discuss other details 2mrw. Been trying to be much more positive in the ph. conversations of late,tho v.few and far between easier on ph. than in person -not seen him in over a yr!!He has been sounding down, but seemed happier tonight-is that becos he thinks I am finally going to let my home be sold??altho he has said all along it will only be when I find somewhere suitable. Don,t want suitable want MY HOME but am trying to b reasonable and settle for much less.
Truly beleive in my heart that this OW will not make him happy-and that it will not last maybe H will never return home hes v proud and I think he feels he has made his bed...wishful thinking maybe.but losing my home will devastate me and more so if OW does not work out.
Do I go and get hair done-dress up, offer him a meal(told me OW can,t cook like me)scared silly at moment.Ask if hes happy? Take his advice re property in hope he will hurt at seeing me downsized and losing my garden and rural life.
Am I setting myself up for a fall I maynot be able to bounce back from.This is my H of 30yrs,life long pal,Father to my 3 kids and I am panicking? Makes no sense. D wanted to text him and say let mum stay in our family home-she will not speak to him.I told her not to, try to explain MLC she sees only beloved Dad who left for a Sl..-what to do, how to as if??
HELP [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Naej desperate again.

I know you are so nervous about the meeting tomorrow. You haven't seen him at all during the past year? Prepare yourself for a change in his appearance, maybe a weight loss since OW can't cook and he has felt sick much of the time.<p>I think it would be good to have something prepared, his favorite meal maybe, that you can offer him in case that he says yes. Don't push it, just ask and tell him it's ready if he's hungry. <p>As far as your hair, dress, etc., look your best but not overdressed for the time of day. If you need a new outfit, go get one. Don't overdo as it will be obvious to him. You want to present a pulled-together look - like, "Look how I have thrived this past year." <p>Don't ask him if he is happy. He will feel pressured to say that he is even if he isn't. Won't want to seem that he made a mistake. I don't see a thing in the world wrong with stating that leaving your home is very painful and that you would prefer that it did not have to be done. (It would break my heart to do what you are going to have to do.)<p>As far as taking his advice, I would LISTEN to his opinion, then make up my own mind. Be very wary about his subtly pushing you to make a quick decision. You do not need to be in a hurry! Most likey it will not be YOUR best interest that he will have in mind.<p>How good an actress are you, naej? This may be your opportunity to win an Oscar for your role as a woman who is confident that she can handle the difficult decisions she is forced to make.<p>Think grace, poise, dignity. Avoid seeming overly needy. That's not the same as expressing you regret that things are the way they are. If you can, let your H bring up topics of conversation. I bet it will drive him crazy if you express NO interest in his current life. Keep the conversation focused on lunch, real estate, and possibly (You will have to get a sense of whether or not it will be helpful to go there or not. Don't bring it up if you have any doubt.) divorce now or continued separation. Don't say a word about OW!!! He will feel the need to defend her or blast you for bringing it up. You would lose a lot if you do.<p>DO NOT HAVE ANY HOPES OR EXPECTATIONS ABOUT THIS VISIT OTHER THAN TO GET HELP IN LOOKING FOR PROPERTY AND LINING UP HELP TO FIX UP THE HOUSE FOR SALE. IF YOU HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS, YOU WILL NOT BE AS DISAPPOINTED IF H SHOWS NO INTEREST IN YOUR M. <p>I am so sorry you have to go through this. I wish I could be along as a chaperone. I'll be anxious to hear how the day goes. Be an actress. Show him that you will survive what he has done.<p>Tomorrow is also the day S and DIL go back to the MC to get DIL's answer about whether she wants to work on the M or procede with her D petition. I'll be anxious for your sake and theirs.<p>I'll be thinking about you!
Estes<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

naej, don't know your whole story but I am sitting here weeping for some of the same things. I can't bear the possible leaving of my home. We could never afford a house so after 25 years of financial struggle and longing and dreaming, we built a house 7 years ago. Now I can not imagine how I will ever keep it if our M ends. Things do not look good and I am done with the waffling so I don't see much hope.<p>Estes is right about the fact that you should expect nothing from your WS except the course of business he is there for.....BUT I, like you, wonder how can that be done. Any unfounded expection on our part is a killer....Why do we hold on to hope when everything is shouting good bye????<p>I will pray for your dealings with WS and the selling of your house and I ache with you.<p>TW

Estes, Tossed wave-
Thankyou so much for replies, up early althou I did sleep.
I already decided NO R/OW talks.good to get suggestions. Silly thing thats bothering me is going in his car-bought RED Sports just B4 he left-infact friends joked about change from Volvo to ? MLC sug, at time but jokingly. Hindsight is wonderful aint it!
If I summon up every ounce of courage think I will manage reasonable performance, as long as no big triggers/always been emotional type,yet cope in emergency(must be nurse in me)
You think they will see thro your "act" when joined at the hip for sooooooo long-but guess they lose that ability when OW appears!
Find it strange that H has this meeting, so soon after fire and poss house situation,his sec. usually does all his appointmts etc/used to.
Well here goes-no expectations(mantra for day)
No big appearance changes,def don,t need new clothes,got too many already.
Will prepare for simple meal if he wants to eat-
Wonder what House owners will think???oh well give them something to talk about-cant be many cast aside wives bring WAW Hubby to view poss new home for them.Hey buts that me.
Hope all goes well for Son,Estes.
Tossed wave-Thanks for caring,I have no idea why we do it,guess God gave us extra thick skin so that we don,t give up as easily as most.
Am trying hard to beleive that whatever...I had 28yrs of a good M,far better than lots,our bond can never truly be broken,even if we have no contact.Yes I have NOT seen him at all as he lives 100's of miles away from me now.
I did invite him for lunch year ago Eastertime which he agreed to but when kids found out they went bolistic and so it was cancelled and then I had another spell in hosp.
He always says wants to b freinds/see me etc but feels I cannot cope with the pain.
Ah on with the day. Will keep you posted.
SEND those positive prayers across the pond for me around mid afternoon UK time.(don,t tell me you will be sleeping-NO excuse!)
Love to all Naej.xx

How did it go?????<p>Estes

H came and we enjoyed 4 hrs of pleasant chit chat+veiwed poss house, got compliments on hair,home garden and meal I made, briefly touched on finances now await solicitors letter, think offers been revised more for somethings less for others-we shall see, touched on pension said not an issue now-what does that mean still no mention of a D, even pointed out to him that he will get 1/2 his Mothers house he said thats yours as well!
Started to talk about kids esp D who is v,upset about home being sold and had texted dad to ask not to sell their home, and she wanted her normal dad back,but shutters came down and he said that we would only get upset if we talked about that.(out comes the carpet to sweep us under)
All in all a good day so lovely to see him. He phoned on his way back to check I was ok.
He phoned today to see what E/Agent had said, one thing led to another and D'ter mentioned I told him I thought C might help both of them tog, he agreed but D'ter will not, she insists on no contact til he gives OW up!
I was not so bright and cheerful [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
and we talked about how his family have no contact with us- I gather he is being told one thing by them- noticed his idea of the times things happen are way out-is this MLC memory block
Gather from things hardly put into words yes he wants contact when I am bright and cheery but does not want any truths/or talk of hurting grown-up kids, or any why talks or what next other than house sale.
Money wise I know He is trying to be reasonable -not quite as generous as b4 but better than so many.I cannot stay in my home so thats that.
As far as to why he has no contact with kids or what he did to them and me_closed topic.
Thought that if I D him perhaps D,ter will just get over it quicker,maybe I am being selfish by hanging on- but mentioned this to her when she rang tonite & she said it makes no difference to her.
oh!! another idea shot down.Why am I always tryin to find a solution?
Guess you needn't send that Oscar Estes, it was a one off performance.<p>Really hope S did better. I am losing hope ,He wants me as a friend on his terms!can I be that when my heart is broken by him?do I wait for the crumbs?better than nothing or is it-only I can
answer that.
He never mentioned OW by name says "You know who" guess we don't call Her by same name anyway!!!!!
Down tonite but got collegues for supper tomorrow-not all are familiar with my sit.and I rarely mention it to people so saves me thinkin .
My happiness of yesterday was so short lived even with NO EXPECTATIONS.
Hope some of you are doing sooo much better.
Naej. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

First of all, I think you did a wonderful job. I think you deserve the best actress award. Do you know how much stronger you sound now than you did 6 weeks ago? I would imagine that you feel better now that you have spoken face to face after not seeing H for so long, even though the meeting was not a bit disappointing. I am glad that your H was congenial, not confrontational. At least there is a chance that your relationship with H can be polite. <p>I hope it doesn't offend you if I speak directly.
Here's what I see happening. Your H is selfishly pursuing a life that is making him happy (at least that's what he thinks now). He has companionship and is doing what he wants. Whether or not he has hurt you is not as important to him as doing what pleases him. This is obvious by his behavior. <p>I'm don't mean to hurt your feelings by saying this, but it is true. Look at what is happening. You are living as though he is very much your H, but H is living as though you are not his W. He has left you alone with your life on hold and feeling miserable because you are waiting for him. <p>Here is a challenge. Maybe H will snap out of his MLC; maybe he will not. What if you pretend that he is on business abroad and unavailable and act as though you are independent of him? Act as though he will be gone a long time, and you have no choice but to take care of yourself. I know that that will be hard, but what you are doing now is also very hard, and it is wearing you down. Play a mind game. It's emotional self-defense.<p>I have a feeling that your H was very impressed with how you appeared to him. You did a great job of masking your pain and you acted strong and in control. Remember what you said. That he WANTED to be around you when you behave the way you did today. That's a great plan A, naej. You are a living example. You are practicing to let your best qualities show, and I think he noticed.<p>I hate it that H treats you as if your pain doesn't exist or is unimportant. He just doesn't get it! He is in a major self-centered mode, so much so that he condescends to you in what is a patronizing way. He abandons you and disrespects your M, then has the nerve to think you would simply switch to being a friend because he doesn't want to be a husband to you any more.<p>Well, you can't continue to live this way. He can't have it his way, his girlfriend living as his wife and his W living as his friend. What a slap in the face. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Even if you decide not to D, consider acting as though you do not need him. Because, in reality, now - even if he comes back later - your H is not there. How can a wife be a friend to a H who has treated her with so little respect. No way. It's not helpful to agonize too long about something you cannot have. You've got to think about YOU. <p>I so much hope for you that WH wakes up SOON and realizes how good things could be again at home. Keep on doing what you are doing. You have succeeded in making yourself more attractive in lots of ways. I think your meeting with H was very postive. You are making great progress, really. <p>DIL was a no-show at the MC session. The C said she rather expected it. Says she thinks DIL wants S to be the one to push the D. I truly do not have a clue what is going on with DIL. I am conversing with a woman on MB who is helping me understand the thinking of sexual abuse survivors. DIL has so many personal issues that it is impossible to separate M related behaviors from her depression, SA issue related behavior. The MC (Christian) tells son that M is a covenant, and you just keep hanging in there regardless. I don't agree 100%, but don't know what the answer is.<p>It was 35 degrees C today (95 degrees F). Tomorrow the high will barely get to 21 C (70 F).
This is what springtime is like in West Texas.
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm really proud of your efforts. Your H has put you in a bad situation, and you are learning to deal with it step by step. You are getting stronger all the time. Your friends and children value you. You must be one admirable woman!!<p>Take care, Estes

Naej, you are a real trooper....I can relate to what you just went through cause in the past, every encounter with my WS would make me think there was hope. So since Nov, WS has been telling me he wants to come home. He seems to say what I want to hear but never follows through. It is a nasty way to live....always expecting and always hoping. I have recently come to the conclusion that he is jerking me around big time OR he is unstable and his life is unmanageable and he needs helps. Either way, I do not want him back under these conditions unless he is able to change. No one should have to bear this kind of pain indefinitely. <p>The tearing away permanently from the M and a long-term R is very painful and it causes me to get depressed but it has to get easier down the road. You do need to ask yourself when you will give up and draw a boundary in your heart where H cannot invade. In order to survive you have to regroup and make some kind of progress. It is obvisous your H is not of the same mindset to make progress with your M. I could never be chummy friends with the man I love who cannot love me back. It is devastatingly hard to try to live a single lifestyle after so many years of M but I know it can be done. I have seen others do it. Think of ways to make some kind of progress each week. <p>I know the fear of throwing it all away---but what is there to keep right now.....scraps and pieces of a ripped up M? I pray for healing for you and serenity to grow.<p>Estes---I question the torture of living with an emotionally damaged person that does not want to heal.....or is unable to face their pain in order to find wholeness. I think M should be preserved at all cost but if both are not working at the M it is futile. I pray your S will know when enough is enough and I pray that he will heal no matter what happens.<p>TW

Early morning in UK looks like being another nice day. Spring is so lovely and a good time to sell my home BUT extra hard to leave it.
Estes, sorry to hear nothing resolved re your son, last time I was in Hospital, I made friends with a woman who had been abused as a child,and she had gone 30yrs befor pain surfaced and she told me of her feelings-hadn,t even told her therapist things she told me and 2yrs on she is still struggling altho married to a wonderful caring man he knows nothing of her real problem and she just blocks him out.Don,t know the answer but I too beleive M is/was lifetime commitment,your son is young and deserves a chance of happiness in a fully commited relationshp,does he see his own son? It is so hard when the ball is in your court and loyalty/fear of failure/guilt all the hang-ups and emotions that go with THIS mess keep you hanging on.
I really hope he can come to a decision and move on.
That is the hard part for me deciding. I was not offended by your truths- all correct, BUT always a BUT-its the limbo- land thing. Need to be able to see into future, to know if H has any intentions of M this OW.(does she want M?) I know I would want some sign that that is what he intended if I were OW. BUT long since gave up trying to figure what goes on in tramps head, as my therapist said they are a different breed of woman, and our values are not theirs.
In light of my in-laws treatment of me & kids,feel there is no hope.Had I not told them I wanted no contact because of their betrayal of us maybe a dialogue could have been kept going- but this is MIL's only son& he can do no wrong in her eyes.
I can only guess now at what she must think and feel, but as she has never tried to make contact or apologise guess that she feels justified in her actions.No idea if S+OW visit on reg. basis now. Do know He goes occassionally.
The thing I need to do is restore some self esteem-read somewhere that those whose H tell them of intended departure/OW cope better than those of us whose H just go without warning.
Its the wondering what happened, what did I do or not do? how can you draw a line and move on when there has been no full stop.
Maybe I am a bad wife, and wont be any better in another relationship, maybe too old. Maybe its me who is causing my Daughters distress by not just letting go- moving on? praps they wud reunite with H family if I wasn,t so hurt by there actions,
Seeing my pyschiatrist early May- don,t know if I need to go back on meds. so up and down but have mananged 6mths without them and don,t really want to go back on them- still a guilt thing about not coping/getting on with life. The expression I hate is Pull yourself tog, To quote MIL- these things happen, get full time job and new life!!!
oh forgot to add also said eat properly and stop smoking!! Maybe thats why my husband left-never been career woman only full time mum +following H around country whilst he furthured his career.
Funny she never mentioned my replacement was a barmaid/cleaner/dinner lady. when I mentioned this she replied didn,t matter what she did. (No longer does these things now with H-praps He was worried about bar work -thats how she picked him up) works as waitress now-gone up in world.
That sounds *****y and snobby I know- nothing against any of those jobs but makes me feel even worse when I have much more interlect and ability to be told I was borin thats why he left.
So sorry to vent- all done will paint that face on and Fake it til I make it!!
God bless you all, as He doesn,t seem to be listening to me at moment> Naej

Naej, Two books come to my mind as you "speak". Women Who Love Too Much and Heart to Heart about Men. I am reading the later and have not read the former. In Heart to Heart I just read that we can idolize men and they can be what we put all our hopes on to make us feel loved and cared about. Relationships become our gods. When in reality, God loves us the WAY we need to be loved and we cannot accept that or let Him in. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>our deepest sin is our unwillingness to respond with gladness to the pursuing heart of God because we don't believe He loves us as much as we need to be loved.<p>I am also doing a Bible Study called Breaking Free and all of the same scriptures are coming at me from all these resources. GOD's love is perfect and it is not based on performance or social status or whether you comb your hair in an attractive way or not. HIS LOVE is based on the fact that He is LOVE and He chooces to love us. He wants to love us and He wants us to love HIM. Wow is this helping me. I am feeling alot like you are feeling. Wanting to break free but unable to. How healthy our relationships can become if we could grasp this. I do not know if you read the Bible but I suggest you look up the word love and as many references in the Bible to that word and try to soak in what is true about God's Love. I see it as my ONLY hope right now. <p>TW

I agree with TW, naej.<p>
The only one whom we can really count on to love us always with no reservations is God. There is no one who cherishes us, hurts with us, or wants the best for us more than He does. The "trouble" is that our schedule is not necessarily His schedule, and His solution might be the solution we seek.<p>
However, I have absolutely no doubt that He is there, and He knows our needs. Alas, He gave us/your WH free will, and we can cause each other great pain. What God can do is wrap us in the comfort of His love while we suffer through the wrongs than others do us. He also will give us strength to tolerate what happens to us. He hasn't abandoned you. He is right there by your side. I hope you can find some comfort in that. The bad stuff may not stop, but he will help you through it.<p>
Be back later, after work,
Estes<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Thanks Estes and TW for all your words of encouragement,
I do read bible and pray alot.but point is if we accept that God loves us, just as I know He does, still doesn,t seem to me to help repair M, Surely if we take vows etc-beleive in Marriage and God does too-why are so many esp long term M just going all wrong.
Yes I know free will point etc-but it is a question on bottom line of good over evil isn,t it? and it would appear from my perspective evil wins more than good triumphs.
Just been readin a survey of how many long term M survive after H/W move in with OP. Stats are POOR from what I read also said that H who have A and move in with OP and don,t return are more often than not depressed! and BS can,t win in that sitch. Why do we bother.
Not wording this right so really hope you see where I am coming from.
Well update is H never phoned D or Sons-D said he probably forgot about them once he had left me to go back to OW!!I made excuses etc but??
Also H told me my MIL says I often ph her but don,t let ph ring long(a complaint I think) any normal person would either ring back- or think well shes not doing it to annoy me cos they left number (easy not to leave num if being malicious isn,t it) I did ring a few times well over a yr ago but dec, as she never ph back she didn,t want to speak to me! Why bring it up now? Praphs thats were H inherited this memory thing?
Ah well low today as wk-end begins. Wk-ends seem to be for couples.
Yes I manage alone.Yes I HATE it. Yes I desp want my H to return to me and his kids-truthfully I don,t thk it WILL happen. All evidence seems against a rec, after so long apart.(As I type still hope I will break the pattern)
Still believe H &OW will part at some point-maybe just wishful thinkin. But 1yr+on, thought I would have seen some cracks.
Truth is by then I will have lost my home/certainly lost my past and future-don,t believe I will meet anyone else and find it so hard to meet men full stop, short of a datin agency def. for me a no-no.
So why do we bother at all.At 50+ does my life revolve around my kids and poss g/kids at some point-they will be a joy to me if & when, BUT I want more for ME.
Bottom line is no matter how full our days,even happy and fulfilled.I go to bed alone I wake alone and I have no one to share my life with-THAT IS WHAT I HATE and REALLY gets me down.
Sorry to be a misery Friday nite blues I guess,
Maybe gettin to the point were I say what good is holding on to a ring and piece of paper when H long gone and living new life with W*oblivious to what he has done to me and his kids and showing NO sign of ever wanting to talk about it or reconc. Except words of "I miss them".
Hope you are all doing SO MUCH BETTER .Naej

Somehow posted a new topic-called THOUGHT OW ROOT OF ALL EVIL/ITS MONEY
SO HOPE YOU CAN GO BY AND READ.
STILL HAVEN,T GOT TO GRIPS WITH BOARD !!
ORCHID KINDLY REPLIED BUT UNSURE OF HER REPLY.
HAD SOLICITORS LETTER TODAY+COPY OF ONE MY H'S SOLICITOR HAD SENT TO HER(SEE OTHER TOPIC)
sO FAR DONE NOTHING LOTS OF FIGURES TO BE PROCESSED BUT NEVER BEEN ANY GOOD WITH THEM,H ALWAYS TOOK CARE OF BILLS ETC-NOT SAYING I CAN,T DO THEM HAVE BEEN FOR PAST 18MTHS AND NEVER OWE ANYONE ANYTHING,JUST THAT I AM NOT GOOD AT THINKING AHEAD AND PREDICTING WHAT I WILL NEED IN FUTURE FACTS I CAN DEAL WITH, IF SLOWLY, ITS THE WHAT IFS AND WHY IS H DOING THIS-WILL HE OR WON;T HE SENORIOS I JUST CANT GET. pLUS THE EMOTIONAL SIDE OF THINGS-NEED TO FEEL I HAVE GIVEN EVERYTHING BEFORE I GO TO D ROUTE-EVEN IF IT MEANS I AM FINANCIALLY LESS WELL OFF. MY PERSONAL NEEDS ARE SMALL AND I AM ONLY OCCAS EXTRAVAGANT.
WOULD LOVE A HOLIDAY BUT WILL NOT GO ALONE AND HAVE NO ONE TO GO WITH-CEPT KIDS AND FIGHT AGAINST THAT.WHO WANTS MUM TO TAG ALONG AT 23,24YRS -DON'T WANT TO CRAMP THEIR STYLE.GOOD LOOKING SONS, D HAS LONG TERM B/F AS WELL.
WHAT IS MY H THINKING/PLANNING??????????????
WHY DO I CARE//
T/W SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN THERE.
STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF! ANYONE READ TEA-LEAVES OR GOT CRYSTAL BALL?
ONLY I CAN DECIDE ENOUGH IS ENUF... AND I HAVE TROUBLE DECIDING TEA OR COFFEE,Hhmmmmmmmmmm.
WHY IS H NOT GOING FOR OR ASKING FOR A D?? JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND THAT ONE//DOES IT GIVE ME HOPE/
OR DOES HE FEEL HES HURT ME ENOUGH FOR NOW?
AFTER HOME GONE HE,LL GO THE NEXT STAGE??
KNOWS I CAN ONLY HANDLE SO MUCH PAIN AT A TIME AFRAID I WILL DO SOMETHING SILLY IF HE OVERLOADS MY THRESHOLD! IS THAT GUILT OR CONSIDERATION//